4 Wheel Drive or 2 Wheel drive + Winter Tyres?

[Del B]

From reading Gareth's comment I think that he is pro winters all round and that it is some others that feel mismatched tyres are fine. The problem is trying to convince anyone that 'their' way is incorrect when 'they've been doing it for years without a problem'. Trouble is it only takes the once. I can easily see a situation where those winter tyres on the front lull a driver into a false sense of security and they approach a bend little too fast, arse overtakes front and you mount a kerb where mother and toddler were walking. Yes, I know that is extreme but as I say, it only takes the once.

Irrespective of the technical issues another consideration is that, as the handbook states "Winter tyres must be mounted on all four wheels to obtain the best handling characteristics", you might have difficulty in persuading your insurers that the fitted tyres complied with the manufacturer's recommendations, which is a typical insurance company stipulation. In the event of an accident you could find yourself high and dry .

It is also disappointing that some unpleasantness has crept into this thread - the good humoured and informative nature of the Yeti forum has (so far) set it apart from other online forums where sniping and points scoring is the norm.

[Llanigraham]

2 Wheel drive or 4 wheel drive? Unless you have a diff lock, you will have 1 or 2 wheels driving.....

Yes, I know that, as a 4x4 veteran

Edited 7 January, 2011 by Llanigraham

[speedsport]

From reading Gareth's comment I think that he is pro winters all round and that it is some others that feel mismatched tyres are fine. The problem is trying to convince anyone that 'their' way is incorrect when 'they've been doing it for years without a problem'. Trouble is it only takes the once. I can easily see a situation where those winter tyres on the front lull a driver into a false sense of security and they approach a bend little too fast, arse overtakes front and you mount a kerb where mother and toddler were walking. Yes, I know that is extreme but as I say, it only takes the once.

Well put!

May i suggest that desenters refer to the various posts where members have found that the rear does indeed overtake the front in certain circumstances when driving their Yeti on 4 matched summer tyres on slippery roads. Putting grippier tyres on the front compared with the back could exacerbate this issue and would (probably) be downright dangerous.

Driving on snow is one thing. Stopping safely is quite another - here, 4WD makes no difference!

Apart from anything else, the handbook says you should have tyres of similar diameter front & rear on the Yeti anyway!

Edited 8 January, 2011 by speedsport

[fuzzybunny]

more snow here today...and low and behold mine was the only non 4x4 car to get up our street'...all the others failed less than half way and promptly slid to the bottom....i had to drive 12 miles to fetch my daughter, and on arrival back it promptly drove straight up with no slipping/flashing lights etc..fwd and goodyear exceallance

Thanks Lee makes this whole thread seem somewaht acedemic as I understand you have 2 wheel drive and summers. To be honest its all down to sensible driving, cant believe the number of drivers I see spnning the wheels like crazy trying to get grip. Just taking it easy and sensibley seems to work everytime and allowing plenty of distance for gentle braking.

:yes:

[GazzaC]

Thanks Lee makes this whole thread seem somewaht acedemic as I understand you have 2 wheel drive and summers.

:yes:

Well, actually no, I do not think Lee's comment makes a discussion on winter tyres (4wd/2wd +winters) academic at all. Much as I am pleased that Lee negotiated his slope (and I would certainly accept we can crawl around on summers in virtually all winter conditions as I have for the last 25 years), the point is surely how much safer, secure and reliable is it on tyres actually designed for the conditions? Whether any driver decides winters are for them is entirely their own choice of course but to say that the whole discussion is academic because one person managed to negotiate a slope is, how do I say this.....wide of the mark.

PS The numerous threads on winter tyres are also littered with owners commenting how poorly their 2wd summer shod Yeti's are coped with the winter conditions, do we ignore those comments?

Edited 9 January, 2011 by GazzaC

[fuzzybunny]

Fair point Gazza but you must be doing something right though if you have survived for the last 25 years on summers.

Sadly I have nowhere to store a set of winter wheels.

I am considering all seasons but the spec only indicates an improvement in winter grip of only 5% which doesn’t sound a lot so not sure if its worth the extra cost. Perhaps others can advise me.

Cheers

[The Plumber]

Fair point Gazza but you must be doing something right though if you have survived for the last 25 years on summers.

Sadly I have nowhere to store a set of winter wheels.

I am considering all seasons but the spec only indicates an improvement in winter grip of only 5% which doesn’t sound a lot so not sure if its worth the extra cost. Perhaps others can advise me.

Cheers

Hi fuzzy,

would advise when you come to change tyres either Goodyear 4Season or Nokian eNtyre. Both good all season tyres with the Goodyear having a reasonable snow rating, while the Nokian is more a cold and wet tyre with a limited snow performance. Both are available in 225/50 R17 size and much more suitable for a Monster than the factory fit sports tyres.

CT17 is currently running his SE 2wd on the 4Season and mbrock has the eNtyre on his 4x4 Elegance.

Regards,

TP

[BossFox]

I can say, having now done some distance at 70mph on the motorway, that the Goodyear Vector 4 seasons are pretty quite considering the more aggressive tread pattern.

They me be a bit noiser than the standard summer spec Dunlops, but there really is very little in it.

As the original thread title, 4WD or 2WD and winter tyres, I'd still go for the latter.

As has already been pointed out, 4WD only helps you get traction. A 2WD on winter tyres will hold the road better during cornering and stop quicker than a 4WD on the Dunlops.

Having gone through that really bad weather I feel no reason to need 4WD here in the South-East. I'd happily drive the 2WD Yeti 40 miles to work in the snow instead of the 4WD Rangie.

[speedsport]

Thanks Lee makes this whole thread seem somewaht acedemic as I understand you have 2 wheel drive and summers. To be honest its all down to sensible driving, cant believe the number of drivers I see spnning the wheels like crazy trying to get grip. Just taking it easy and sensibley seems to work everytime and allowing plenty of distance for gentle braking.

Yes driving style is important, but the discussion is far from academic!

All the way through these various threads on winter tyres, the emphasis in the vast majority of posts has been about driving in slippery conditions / getting up hills / the benefits of 4wd vs 2wd etc.

By far the most important aspect of being out in slippery conditions, is how quickly will you STOP when you need to, and how safely. Then the 2wd/4wd discussion becomes irrelavent. It makes no difference if you have a 4x4 when you put the brakes on, you've only got the same 4 tyres to stop you. There is absolutely no question that if you have to drive in snow or icy conditions, winter tyres are a brilliant enhancement to safety.

Don't forget... you may be highly experienced at driving in snow on summer tyres, but your life may depend on your ability to stop quickly to avoid the prat coming the other way out of control on your side of the road. And summer tyres are not likely to be much help in that situation!

Yes, I've driven for 38 years in all weather conditions on standard tyres, but gradually tyres have got wider and the old narrow aggressive tread patterns that did indeed offer reasonable grip in snow have gone, to be replaced with today's low rolling resistance, quieter, wider tyres which are designed for exemplarary road holding in summer.

And yes, I've bought a set of winters for the first time in my life, because my 4x4 Yeti recently wanted to swap ends on snow - whilst slowing down at very low speed and in conditions that I would previously have had no problem controlling in my cars of the past.

Finally, the performance of your summer tyres deteriorates rapidly even in dry conditions when the temperature drops below +7C. Winters come into their own at that point as their rubber is formulated to continue working below freezing, whether there is snow aboiut or not.

Edited 9 January, 2011 by speedsport

[marcusthehat]

+1 to above

[Llanigraham]

And another for Speedsports comment!

[Agerbundsen]

Speedsport, you hit the nail right on the head.

When it comes to braking and to steering while braking, 4WD makes no difference. The limiting factor is how well your tyres can transmit forces to the road.

[fuzzybunny]

Thanks Guys that's very helpful.

I like the big arrowhead pattern on the Goodyear all seasons, looks like it should grip in snow.

I wonder it it has an adverse effect on mpg.

From what you all say the winters are the best option. I suppose until you've tried them its hard to tell.

Perhaps i can build another shed to keep my spare tyres in.

After all you can never have too many sheds!

Edited 10 January, 2011 by fuzzybunny

[EdmundBlackadder]

Perhaps i can build another shed to keep my spare tyres in.

After all you can never have too many sheds!

You can if you have a wife! "Wasteful, pointless etc" Of course if you are single then no doubt winter tyres and multiple sheds are no problem.

[bahnstormer vrs]

I wonder it it has an adverse effect on mpg.

From what you all say the winters are the best option. I suppose until you've tried them its hard to tell.

Expect up to about 10% worse fuel consumption with Winter Tyres (driven on tarmac) - after all they are gripping the road harder than Summer Tyres.

[EdmundBlackadder]

Expect up to about 10% worse fuel consumption with Winter Tyres (driven on tarmac) - after all they are gripping the road harder than Summer Tyres.

Do you know if All Season tyres have a similar or reduced effect?

[BossFox]

Interesting.

We have noticed very little (if any) difference in mpg.

My wife is still pottering about town getting 40mpg out of the 1.2 DSG. No way has it dropped 4mpg!

It's all about rolling resistance and I doubt there is a huge difference.

[marcusthehat]

Might I suggest that the fuel penalty (if any?) is probably masked by the lower average speeds, this however offset against the cold reducing overall engine efficency...............hmmmmmmm, my brain hurts :wonder:

[fuzzybunny]

Might I suggest that the fuel penalty (if any?) is probably masked by the lower average speeds, this however offset against the cold reducing overall engine efficency...............hmmmmmmm, my brain hurts :wonder:

Interesting! Now applying similar logic to summer tyres in winter you might expect an improvement in mpg due to reduced rolling resistance.

Cant say Ive noticed it myself though.

[rockhopper]

Expect up to about 10% worse fuel consumption with Winter Tyres (driven on tarmac) - after all they are gripping the road harder than Summer Tyres.

But summer tyres wear out faster in the winter than winter tyres do......

I must admit I like the sound of all the 10%'s people are quoting. My Diesel DSG may end up doing 60mpg plus in the summer....

with the winter tyre effect

the winter diesel fuel effect

the remap effect............depends how fast I drive Elsie

the cold weather effect

the fact the the CR engines aren't very economical in the cold weather effect

the slow warm up of the engine effect.................

Mike

Edited 10 January, 2011 by rockhopper

[jan25]

But summer tyres wear out faster in the winter than winter tyres do......

I must admit I like the sound of all the 10%'s people are quoting. My Diesel DSG may end up doing 60mpg plus in the summer....

with the winter tyre effect

the winter diesel fuel effect

the remap effect............depends how fast I drive Elsie

the cold weather effect

the fact the the CR engines aren't very economical in the cold weather effect

the slow warm up of the engine effect.................

Mike

Thanks R-H, my brain hurts! But the Yeti keeps going, regardless!

[BossFox]

Might I suggest that the fuel penalty (if any?) is probably masked by the lower average speeds, this however offset against the cold reducing overall engine efficency...............hmmmmmmm, my brain hurts :wonder:

Still do 70mph on the M-ways and A12 and 40mph on the back roads. Near identical economy. Only slow right down in the snow and ice. (a week here or there per year?)

The Goodyears are all season tyres that are also good in snow and icy conditions.

The rolling resistnace can't be much higher than the Standard Dunlops, as not seeing much effect on noise or mpg.

[marcusthehat]

erm

see my comment

fuel penalty(if any?)

Not convinced there is necessarily a fuel penalty with winter rubber, it may indeed be a sticker softer compound but this is only to offset the lower winter temperatures therefore if winter tyres are only used in the winter (sub 7 or 8 deg?) there may indeed be no penalty, as the rubber will be as hard as summer tyres in the summer temps

yes?

[rockhopper]

erm

see my comment

fuel penalty(if any?)

Not convinced there is necessarily a fuel penalty with winter rubber, it may indeed be a sticker softer compound but this is only to offset the lower winter temperatures therefore if winter tyres are only used in the winter (sub 7 or 8 deg?) there may indeed be no penalty, as the rubber will be as hard as summer tyres in the summer temps

yes?

I think the rubber stays soft which is why they wear out faster in the summer.

[BossFox]

erm

see my comment

fuel penalty(if any?)

Not convinced there is necessarily a fuel penalty with winter rubber, it may indeed be a sticker softer compound but this is only to offset the lower winter temperatures therefore if winter tyres are only used in the winter (sub 7 or 8 deg?) there may indeed be no penalty, as the rubber will be as hard as summer tyres in the summer temps

yes?

Hi deiseldogg

Yes, if any.

My post does not say you were wrong, I saw your comment. My post says that at usual everyday speeds we've seen near identical economy to summer tyres in summer.

Richard