The last time I filled up, I used the new Shell "Fuelsave" diesel and immediately noticed a reduction in fuel economy.

I seem to recall a post on here mentioning that the Yeti engine management system needs two full tanks of the same fuel to make best use it, but can't recall who told us.

Can anyone point me in the right direction, otherwise I will probably go back to good ol' Sainsbury's Best?

Thanks

I use V-Power diesel. Highly tuned engine and all that Seems to like it as well.

I personally would never use supermarket fuel again after problems a while back with water in the fuel.......expensive to fix as I couldn't 'prove' that T*****o were to blame. (on a petrol motorcycle)

This has been covered before. Supermarket fuels lack very important lubricatives and detergents, this can mean your fuel pump giving out, very expensive. Shell contain these so I would advise you to use it ALL of the time. The VAG group diesel engines are of a very high technology..

Just do a Google search of this forum and you will get all this. (Type "site:briskoda.net supermarket fuel" into Google and click on More results from briskoda.net » )

My Yeti runs only on Shell. From day one it has had nothing but Shell apart from one tank of Tesco fuel when on holiday and it was the only fuel station to be found for miles. And Shell now has a reward card too so I get points.

V+ Diesel here too - just had a load of vouchers + money off

Happy to pay a small premium for guaranteed quality - and less cash > Tesco

and less cash > Tesco

+1

V+ Diesel here too - just had a load of vouchers + money off

Happy to pay a small premium for guaranteed quality - and less cash > Tesco

Premium? Not where I live. My local Tesco at the moment has diesel at 138,9 and my Shell (which BossFox knows well!) has it for 137.9. And they are normally always cheaper than Tesco. Win-win for me then!!!

Shell V power for mine (since day one) and we now stick with Shell Fuelsave on our Ford TDCi - we both agree the savings are there with it in the tank. Its a remapped 1.6TDCi if that has any bearing whatsoever. Ive never used supermarket fuels unless there was no other choice.

Must admit, the question starting this thread got me thinking about this for the first time.

As a result I have been looking on different sites and forums and the only conclusion seems to be that no one really has a clue! As soon as one 'person in the know' says one thing, it is immediately challenged by another equally Knowledgeable person.

Think i'll stick with Tesco (although, now the Airmiles scheme has changed, it is not as attractive anymore).

I use V-Power diesel. Highly tuned engine and all that Seems to like it as well.

I personally would never use supermarket fuel again after problems a while back with water in the fuel.......expensive to fix as I couldn't 'prove' that T*****o were to blame. (on a petrol motorcycle)

This is utter cr*p.

A diesel runs at all times with an excess of air, so it doesn't matter how highly tuned it is, the lack of full combustion is directly proportional to the engine speed. Read the fuel doesn't have time to finish burning before it's shoved out of the cylinder.

Higher quality petrol makes a difference WRT premature ignition, however this isn't the case with dervs.

FWIW when they did the V-Power for the price of normal Derv a while ago, I (and others) noticed a decrease in MPG.

This has been covered before. Supermarket fuels lack very important lubricatives and detergents, this can mean your fuel pump giving out, very expensive. Shell contain these so I would advise you to use it ALL of the time. The VAG group diesel engines are of a very high technology..

Where? The fuel comes from the same refinery and it's just that the supermarkets buy from whoever gives then the best deal that week.

For example, I've seen shell tankers emptying at Sainsbury.

All diesel sold in the UK (Whole EU actually) has to meet the standard EN590 and if it doesn't it shouldn't be sold.

As such, if your car can not run happily and without fault on this, then the car is at fault, not the fuel.

You could buy the spec here:

http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030205515

Notice the section that defines additives

There are no "very important" items missing, although the levels might differ depending on the fuel batch.

Even if there were it would be substantially cheaper to add it yourself (millers etc) than pay 3-4p per L more.

Also the fuels composition changes all year around, based on temperatures etc.

FWIW, the vag diesels (or any diesel tbh) are not high tech, they are standard/proven tech.

CR has been around for donkeys years, well before VAG used it or it made it into cars.

Ditto turbochargers and all the rest.

Bearing in mind how many people fill up at a supermarket, have you seen hundreds of thousands of cars written off due to the fuel? (Except for that contamination **** up that wasn't exactly the supermarkets fault).

Edited 13 September, 201114 yr by cheezemonkhai

Where? The fuel comes from the same refinery and it's just that the supermarkets buy from whoever gives then the best deal that week.

For example, I've seen shell tankers emptying at Sainsbury.

I love how this bizzare statement can be found in each and every single one of the many, many, many fuel threads you'll find in the Google Briskoda search I pasted above. Had people bothered to read that first they will find many, many, many people telling you how a fuel refinery works. Yes, the trucks go to the same refinery, yes they go from there to different fuel companies but do you for one minute know that exactly the same fuel goes into the truck when it gets filled? Of course bloody not. What do you think all those other different shaped tanks at the refinery is?! Site huts?! Art to make the place look interesting?!!? When a tanker gets filled the computer knows where it is going and automatically adds Shell's additives to a Shell truck and Total's to a Total truck and NOTHING to a Tesco and Sainsbury's truck. Really not rocket science to work that one out.

OK, calm down everyone, I'm sorry I started this. :'(

Please re-read my original post which asks why I am seeing much lower economy on my first tank of Shell? Does the engine management system need several tanks to start showing an improvement on, or even the same economy as, it showed before I used Fuelsave?

Take your Tesco/Additives/Refinery argument/discussion outside! We've all had a drink and it's not worth it :beer:

OK, calm down everyone, I'm sorry I started this.

Please re-read my original post which asks why I am seeing much lower economy on my first tank of Shell? Does the engine management system need several tanks to start showing an improvement on, or even the same economy as, it showed before I used Fuelsave?

Take your Tesco/Additives/Refinery argument/discussion outside! We've all had a drink and it's not worth it :beer:

Yes sir!

I think you answered yourself. You need at least two tanks of Shell before you will notice a difference. The car's computer auto calibrates and you now have a mix of fuels in there so it will take a bit of time to get the settings just so for pure Shell and not the Shelesco mix you currently have.

Yes sir!

I think you answered yourself. You need at least two tanks of Shell before you will notice a difference. The car's computer auto calibrates and you now have a mix of fuels in there so it will take a bit of time to get the settings just so for pure Shell and not the Shelesco mix you currently have.

Thank you very much

Carry on everyone

Get some Millers aditive I and thousands of others are convinced it works!!!!!

I've posted this in the past on here, but shall repeat myself.

My father was a Bulk Plant manager at an Esso depot, but they used to fill lots of other companies tankers, from Shell to Tesco's.

When a tanker logged in to fill it's load this was then "dispensed". As the tank was filled various additives were included, depending on who the buyer was.

These include:

retailers dye,

tax paid dye, for diesel,

tax paid chemical trace, for diesel,

Additives, which were rarely specified by the supermarkets:

cleaners,

diesel anti-smoke

diesel anti-foaming.

Sorry, but Tesco's and others do not supply the same "stuff" you can buy from the main stream retailer. The basic fuel will all be to the relevant BS level, but that is where it stops. The additives are beyond the BS standard.

I've posted this in the past on here, but shall repeat myself.

My father was a Bulk Plant manager at an Esso depot, but they used to fill lots of other companies tankers, from Shell to Tesco's.

When a tanker logged in to fill it's load this was then "dispensed". As the tank was filled various additives were included, depending on who the buyer was.

These include:

retailers dye,

tax paid dye, for diesel,

tax paid chemical trace, for diesel,

Additives, which were rarely specified by the supermarkets:

cleaners,

diesel anti-smoke

diesel anti-foaming.

Sorry, but Tesco's and others do not supply the same "stuff" you can buy from the main stream retailer. The basic fuel will all be to the relevant BS level, but that is where it stops. The additives are beyond the BS standard.

Thanks for this clear, definitive statement. The only issue is therefore whether the various additives make any difference to fuel which, as has been pointed out, has to be of a certain standard in the first place.

I have to say that in 45 years of driving I have always gone for the cheapest fuel available (often but not always a supermarket) and I have never used additives and have never had any fuel-related mechanical issues.

@cheezemonkhai, I think your post was hasty and without sufficient research. I suggest you get your coat and comeback when you have given the subject more thought....

Edited 13 September, 201114 yr by looby

When a tanker gets filled the computer knows where it is going and automatically adds Shell's additives to a Shell truck and Total's to a Total truck and NOTHING to a Tesco and Sainsbury's truck.

But as cheezemonkhai pointed out, all fuel sold has to conform to EN590 (local Trading Standards sample and test the stuff that's sold on a regular basis to make sure that it meets the standard). The Yeti owner's manual (p200) speficies the use of EN590 fuel (and actually advises against the use of further additives). So the car is designed to use EN590 fuel. If you put EN590 fuel in the car and the car breaks, the problem is with the car, not the fuel.

I'm not denying that there might be other things in the branded fuels compared to the supermarket fuels. It's even possible that those things might help with certain aspects of the engine's performance. But to suggest as looby did (not you) that the supermarket fuels are missing "very important" additives which can result in damage to the car is actually implying that VAG can't design cars to meet the industry standards for automotive fuel.

Hands up anyone who believes that.

Thought not.

I think this discussion is rather like the winter tyres discussion - while there may be a difference, many (most) of us have used the same tyres all year round without ever feeling in the least disadvantaged. Of course, that's not to say there are no benefits to alternative petrol/tyre choice.

Anyway, probably going off-subject now...

I think this discussion is rather like the winter tyres discussion - while there may be a difference, many (most) of us have used the same tyres all year round without ever feeling in the least disadvantaged. Of course, that's not to say there are no benefits to alternative petrol/tyre choice.

Anyway, probably going off-subject now...

Yes you are but I think you're quite right in all that you say!

There are differences in the basic fuel. The process of getting rid of sulphur a few years back can reduce its lubricity so lubricity additves are added. The other additives are cetane improvers and detergents. Yes VAG engines are designed to run on EN590 Standard fuel however they will not be liable for the cost of new injectors or fuel pumps down the line. So I suggest that until a new diesel fuel standard is introduced it is common sense and in your own interests to use a fuel with additives, I rest my case..

As a driver you won't feel the difference. You MIGHT see better consumption but from all those other threads in the Google link posted above it was this person's post in the Fabia forum that made me swing to never put supermarket fuel in my Yeti:

"My two penneth on this fuel thingy...I fully concur with what the blokes are saying. I base this on experience with fuels over the years in cars and high performance motorcycles, and my time as a tech stripping and seeing what the different fuels do to an engine. There has been a lot of interest over the years in this subject by magazines too....and mostly not liking the supermarket fuels, although there are some exceptions. The main problem with supermarket fuel is a longer term one. Over time, they leave a nasty amount of brown sticky carbon in the engine and fuel lines. This can lead to performance and fuel economy degradation. Mostly, except maybe Morrisons, they perform roughly the same, but they use just secondary cleaning additives compared to the top branded fuels such as Esso and Shell who use first and second grade cleaners. They also lack upper cylinder lubricants. IIRC the fuel standards relate only to fuel combustability and burn cleanliness, and not the amount of debris they leave in the engine or how well they lubricate as they go through the engine. Supermarket diesel for instance has considerably less lubricating ability and as such can considerably reduce the life of your engines high pressure fuel pump. These babies cost £1,200 a piece when the bearing go and they can go prematurely on supermarket fuel according to Ford and Vauxhall. So much so that many manufacturer have been and still are considering suing the fuel companies for damages as the pumps sometimes fail in warranty on supermarket fuel. To be fair supermarkets have raised there game recently but are still some way short of the branded fuels."

Over time the cheap fuel will leave nasty stuff in your engine. It won't show for years but one day something will dislodge and wham a big bill. It will probably be the next owner with the problems sure, but I'd rather not chance it.

But I have to also say that I've only started using Shell alone on the Yeti. In my Audi with a PD TDI, I used supermarket fuel for 95% of the time and I only had one fuel issue when the fuel pump started to starve the engine and had to be replaced at about 70,000 miles. Was that due to the supermarket fuel? Who knows. But I'm playing safe with my Monster.

But as cheezemonkhai pointed out, all fuel sold has to conform to EN590 (local Trading Standards sample and test the stuff that's sold on a regular basis to make sure that it meets the standard). The Yeti owner's manual (p200) speficies the use of EN590 fuel (and actually advises against the use of further additives). So the car is designed to use EN590 fuel. If you put EN590 fuel in the car and the car breaks, the problem is with the car, not the fuel.

I'm not denying that there might be other things in the branded fuels compared to the supermarket fuels. It's even possible that those things might help with certain aspects of the engine's performance. But to suggest as looby did (not you) that the supermarket fuels are missing "very important" additives which can result in damage to the car is actually implying that VAG can't design cars to meet the industry standards for automotive fuel.

Hands up anyone who believes that.

Thought not.

Did you read my posting earlier, because from some of those comments I doubt it?

Surely if supermarket fuel was as bad as the doom n gloom merchants would have you believe 1) they would not be allowed to sell it, 2) there would be thousands of cases suing for damaged engines. The only reports for fuel damaging engines I've seen was by Shell petrol a few years ago.