Help! Clutch pedal on vRS stuck to floor

[Flanno]

I have a 07 vRs which up until May was doing light mileage (mostly city driving).

Was serviced at 32000 miles end March. Now has 460000 on it as commuting 750 miles a week to and from work (mostly main road/motorway driving). So service is long due.

This morning the clutch pedal is sticking to the floor. I can get it back up by pulling it with hand, but it sticks back down straight away when I touch it. There is no longer any spring motion. Could this be something called a Master Cylinder that's gone ? I am trying to get an independent mechanic to look at it today. Is it possible this can be fixed in driveway at home I wonder. Otherwise I will have to get nearest Skoda dealer to tow it, who is miles away.

thanks

[robertb]

I have a 07 vRs which up until May was doing light mileage (mostly city driving).

Was serviced at 32000 miles end March. Now has 460000 on it as commuting 750 miles a week to and from work (mostly main road/motorway driving). So service is long due.

This morning the clutch pedal is sticking to the floor. I can get it back up by pulling it with hand, but it sticks back down straight away when I touch it. There is no longer any spring motion. Could this be something called a Master Cylinder that's gone ? I am trying to get an independent mechanic to look at it today. Is it possible this can be fixed in driveway at home I wonder. Otherwise I will have to get nearest Skoda dealer to tow it, who is miles away.

thanks

Happened on my former VW Golf and was quite a common problem. Dealer fixed mine in an hour under guarantee and I think it was a new master cylinder, but not absolutely certain.

[gregoir]

A miracle the car is still running if it has not been serviced in 428,000 miles. And what tyres last that long?

Edited 16 September, 2011 by gregoir

[suk]

Clutch master cylinder, also seen a few brackets snap on the pedal where the master cylinder clips in to!

[Flanno]

Thanks guys.

Well local mechanic arrived and noticed brake fluid low and then noticed front brake pads nearly worn, and rear ones almost gone entirely. This could have caused alot of stress on the clutch cylinders. Anyway, he bleeded the brakes as best he could, and topped up the brake fluid. Clutch is a little more responsive but still sticks now and again so he said to leave it a few hours as there might still be air trapped. No dampness on slave cylinder but he needs to put it up on a height to get at master cylinder which if leaking will need replacement. Needs new brakepads and service too obviously. Will have to use bus next week. Daily commute of 150 miles :(

It's interesting that the main dealer back the end of March, didn't spot any brake pad wear or tell me, and they defintely didn't change the brake fluid which is supposed to be done every 2 years on my car. It's 6 months after. For that matter I'm not even sure if they checked it. Obviously something I should have been doing, as I normally check my oil once a week. Blasted engine consumes about 0.5litre every 2000 miles.

Incidentally, is it safe to use 5W40 full synth on vRS TFSI engine. I've used it instead of 5W30 which doesnt seem to last as long but I heard somewhere that turbos need much thinner oil.

Edited 16 September, 2011 by Flanno

[gregoir]

Well local mechanic arrived and noticed brake fluid low and then noticed front brake pads nearly worn, and rear ones almost gone entirely. This could have caused alot of stress on the clutch cylinders.

Incidentally, is it safe to use 5W40 full synth on vRS TFSI engine. I've used it instead of 5W30 which doesnt seem to last as long but I heard somewhere that turbos need much thinner oil.

Don't understand the direct connection between brakes and clutch, but car is obviously in dire need of a proper service and safety check over.

The oil needs to be in accordance with VW spec 504.00/507.00 from memory - this over rides any viscosity or other codings.

[Flanno]

Well local mechanic arrived and noticed brake fluid low and then noticed front brake pads nearly worn, and rear ones almost gone entirely. This could have caused alot of stress on the clutch cylinders.

Incidentally, is it safe to use 5W40 full synth on vRS TFSI engine. I've used it instead of 5W30 which doesnt seem to last as long but I heard somewhere that turbos need much thinner oil.

Don't understand the direct connection between brakes and clutch, but car is obviously in dire need of a proper service and safety check over.

The oil needs to be in accordance with VW spec 504.00/507.00 from memory - this over rides any viscosity or other codings.

Well it was serviced only 5 months ago though I'd say they did the bare minimum. But even still, at 32,000 miles when it was done, it was just an inspection service. Its been driving perfecly up until today. There is now 46,000 miles on it, and its still only an inspection service that's due plus pads and obviously the brake fluid change. Tires will be done next month. Got 23,000 miles out of them and still at least 3mm left.

By the way it passed the NCT (like an MOT) 2 months ago. That's supposed to be a safey inspection.

[suk]

Thanks guys.

Clutch is a little more responsive but still sticks now and again so he said to leave it a few hours as there might still be air trapped.

Leaving it a few hours wont get rid of any trapped air! If the pedal stuck to floor its more than likely the cylinder which is attched to the pedal thats knackered!!

[skippy41]

Around £76 from the dealers for a new one, part only, £20 to fit at indi

[Flanno]

Hi,

Sorry for opening an old thread. I have had the slave cylinder replaced (cost 200 euro at an independent) which I was told had to be the issue, but the issue is still happening every few hundred miles, which for me currently is once a month or so. The mechanic has checked the car again and there are no leaks what so ever.

The symptoms are the pedal gets loose the first couple inches when pushing it down, and then eventually sticks, first halfway, then it hits the floor. If I am driving when this happens, I pull in, pump the clutch pedal a few times and pressure usually comes back temporarily. The quick fix to get the pedal going again, is to open the slave bleeder valve a notch and inject some brake fluid (using a cow syringe and some tubing ). This effectively causes all the air to bleed out according to the mechanic. This is what he has has done every time he has called to the house and I have been doing this myself once a month now but I need a permanent fix.

He reckons a proper fix may involve replacing the master cylinder which involves opening the gear box, and he reckons if he does that he may as well replace the complete clutch, flywheel etc.. But no guarantees. An expensive proposition I am not looking forward to.

I am wondering as I have no leaks could there be another cause. Is there perhaps something physical behind the clutch pedal which could be worn and is preventing the pedal from returning, and the act of bleeding the clutch is helping alleviate the problem temporarily. Also the clutch biting point is extremely close to the floor. I never remember this being the case when the clutch was working perfectly.

Any advice appreciated.

Car has 50,000 miles up on it. Was mainly used for city driving for over 4 years, but between May and September of last year was used for driving to work and was putting up 750 miles a week motorway driving. That's when the clutch sticking started to happen.

Edited 11 March, 2012 by Flanno

[Davidsr20]

Tires will not fail unless under 1.6 mm and ur clutch is nothing to do with the nct.

[Flanno]

Tires will not fail unless under 1.6 mm and ur clutch is nothing to do with the nct.

I never said the clutch had anything to do with the NCT, did I ??? Someone else on this thread (Gregoir) jumped to conclusions and said my car was in need of a safety checkover, and that's what the NCT actually does. I simply pointed that out to him. At no point did I make a connection to the NCT and my clutch. So really, I don't know why you bothered making such a half assed comment, which is completely irrelevant to what I am asking about. But thanks for the effort.

I thank the people who mentioned the clutch cylinder which I have had replaced (the one not in the gearbox, not sure if master or slave). I hope someone else can give me some useful advice now. It seems like I am bleeding the clutch every few hundred miles (which is about 3 weeks driving for me now). I am looking for what could be the cause of this problem, and what to check next, before having to go down the expensive route of removing the gearbox to look at the other cylinder. Anyone ?

Edited 13 March, 2012 by Flanno

[skippy41]

change the clutch master cylinder and the slave one, both are easily accessed from the engine bay no need to remove gearbox

take it to a dealer and get the job done properly

[Flanno]

If I could afford a main dealer I'd go. I just got off the phone with them. The slave cylinder is inside the gearbox housing according to them and not easily accessed

[gregoir]

Well local mechanic arrived and noticed brake fluid low and then noticed front brake pads nearly worn, and rear ones almost gone entirely. This could have caused alot of stress on the clutch cylinders.

I still do not understand the connection between low brake fluid, worn brake pads and the stress on the clutch cylinders- which you said 'this could have caused'.

The slave cylinder inside the gearbox sounds a real PITA. Good luck in getting your problem sorted.

[nick74]

I still do not understand the connection between low brake fluid, worn brake pads and the stress on the clutch cylinders- which you said 'this could have caused'.

The hydraulic clutch and braking system share the same fluid reservoir. As the brake pads wear they will tend to allow the fluid level in the reservoir to drop. As the fluid take-off point for the clutch is at a higher level in the reservoir than that for the brakes (a deliberate safety feature) then it is conceivable that worn pads could indirectly lead to the clutch being partially starved of fluid, possibly drawing air in and causing wear to the slave and/or master cylinder.

[Flanno]

That's pretty much what my mechanic said nick74, but he didn't explain it as well as you did.

I am going out to the main dealer next week. My local mechanic says the gearbox has to come out to get at the slave cylider. The service manager in the main dealership does not think so, but needs to confirm with his mechanic whether it was the slave or master they changed on a vRS last week.

Hope to get it resolved soon. Just not had the time. Public transport is sucking.

[nick74]

From what I can gather its only on the 5 speed where the slave cylinder can be easily accessed. On the 6 speed the 'box does indeed have to come out first.

[gregoir]

Thanks for the revelation. That seems pretty logical once the single reservoir is explained.

[FriendlyFire]

The quick fix to get the pedal going again, is to open the slave bleeder valve a notch and inject some brake fluid (using a cow syringe and some tubing ). This effectively causes all the air to bleed out according to the mechanic. This is what he has has done every time he has called to the house and I have been doing this myself once a month now but I need a permanent fix.

Forgive me if I am reading you wrong, but I don't think the way to bleed a clutch is by putting it in via the bleeder nozzle.

I had my brakes bled by a dealer at two years, when I came to do it myself at four years (prior to the NCT) I did the clutch as well. I got huge amounts of air out. It bled fluid for quite a while in the process before the air actually came. From memory, I think you need to drive 120 - 200 ml of fluid through the pipes to bleed a clutch.

I cannot see how I could have got air out whilst trying to put fluid in via the bleeder.

Anyway, I would agree with the others here who suggest you change your mechanic, especially if he is trying to do this.

Again, forgive me if I am getting you wrong and you trust your mechanic.

Edited 14 March, 2012 by FriendlyFire

[Flanno]

Yep, Friendly, what you are saying makes complete sense to me, and I believe that's what the mechanic did the 1st time he bled it. And the 2nd time I was there, and I had to pump the clutch up and down or try to, while the air came out.

Since then when the clutch starts to stick, he has instructed me to loosen the nut on the nozzle, then using a cow syringe with brake fluid, attached to a long tube with an attachment at the end, place tube over nozzle and slowly inject brake fluid . This is what he did the 2 additional times he called to the house after the pedal started to get sticky, but now he has given me that gear to do it myself. He said by injecting the fluid, this will force the air out. I don't really understand it, but I have done this a few times and the clutch pedal has started working again, if only for a few weeks.

As of this morning it's still working but I can tell it's going to go again, as the first couple of inches when pressing down the pedal, it feels very loose. Any day now it will stick about halfway on the return. Pumping it a few times usually helps. Eventually it will go to the floor. Interestingly that usually happens when the engine is cold. Sometimes a pump or two and it comes back, but often it does not. Then the brake fluid trick does the job till next time. Also, since this problem has started happening the biting point on the clutch is much much lower than I ever remember. Practically nothing happens till it's only an inch or so from the floor. Could be unrelated.

I will be seeing the dealer next week to discuss this in more detail and to talk about the slave cylinder. If it's a case of the box coming out, I simply won't be able to afford the labour.

Meanwhile, while my mechanic is willing to replace the slave cylinder, and clutch+dualmaster flywheel, (which he recommends doing while the gearbox is out, in case the problem is not the slave cylinder) - he offers no guarantees. In fact he said it's unlikely to be a problem with the slave as I have no leakage whatsoever. Instead he recommends looking at the pedal itself. He mentioned something about a piivot bar or return spring. I'm confused to be honest.

Edited 15 March, 2012 by Flanno

[FriendlyFire]

TBH, I think your mechanic has reached the limit of his understanding of what's wrong with the car. Throwing parts at a car with no guarantee is not the way to go. I thnk he will thank you if you take it to a dealer and get a diagnosis and estimate for the work.

If you're up for it, the recommended way to bleed the clutch is with positive pressure at the master cyclinder. I used a Gunson Easybleed system (disposable one shot piece of kit IMHO). It will push fluid through to the slave cylinder and get rid of the air. If you still have a problem then get thee to a VAG garage and get a quote.

[NoFixedaSkoda]

Hi, 

Did you need to take out the gear box to get to the slave cylinder after all? If you don't mind me asking, was it an expensive fix? I'm looking at buying  a 4x4 octavia that's got the same clutch problem, trying to get an idea of what kind of costs I'm going to be facing. 

Thanks

[chrisund123]

Depends what gearbox the car has. 5 speed it's external, 6 speed it is internal.

[NoFixedaSkoda]

Hi, it's the 6 speed manual cheers