PD170 or CR170?

[ndicki]

Just thinking aloud here... I have two PD140 (-ish) Octys, and I love the sudden rush of power you get when you hit the power band. This must be even more impressive in the PD170 - but they've replaced it with the CR170 which is apparently much smoother.

For those who have used both, how do they compare? Which do you really prefer, and why?

[rockhopper]

Just thinking aloud here... I have two PD140 (-ish) Octys, and I love the sudden rush of power you get when you hit the power band. This must be even more impressive in the PD170 - but they've replaced it with the CR170 which is apparently much smoother.

For those who have used both, how do they compare? Which do you really prefer, and why?

For me the linear remapped by shark power delivery of the CR engine. I hated the all or nothing from the PD engine. Uncontrollable in the wet. Awful.

Much smoother and quieter as well and more refined.

[ChrisRs]

+1

[sneeks]

I preferred the punchiness of the PD engine but for everyday driving the smoother CR engine is much better. At low speeds around town the PD was a nightmare.

[Gizmo]

For those who have used both, how do they compare? Which do you really prefer, and why?

PD every day of the week

Yes it is noisier, but I for one loved the power delivery of my PD130, my 170CR feels slow compared.

[ndicki]

PD every day of the week

Yes it is noisier, but I for one loved the power delivery of my PD130, my 170CR feels slow compared.

And that is PRECISELY what I'm afraid of. My PD140s go like muck off a shovel, and I've given a CR170 RS a very nasty run for his money on one occasion (I don't normally race, don't worry! This was a one-off in safe circumstances.) I see what you mean about abrupt handling being a bit of a pain, though, as even the PD140 can be a bit of a handful if you're not expecting it. You get used to it soon enough, I find.

Remaps are illegal in France.

Edited 8 October, 2011 by ndicki

[AndrewJB]

PD for me aswell, Stage 2 kit on mine and car is stripped out

[Tech1e]

CR for me, if only for less DPF hassles..lol

[jrw]

PD every day of the week

Yes it is noisier, but I for one loved the power delivery of my PD130, my 170CR feels slow compared.

Feels slow in the fact you don't get the thump of power but apart from that it is a lot quicker!

[onmeheadson]

My main concern with the PD (and I own one), is the reliability. What with the injector issue, the stutter problem, and the DPF problems etc, IMO the newer PD engine isn't anywhere near as good or reliable as the previous 1.9 version that was in my Golf. It's not as smooth or as nice to drive either. Ive also been told that I need to replace the turbo now as well (46000 miles) because the actuator is playing up.

I can't speak on the CR but thought I'd share my experiences with the PD.

[AndrewJB]

My main concern with the PD (and I own one), is the reliability. What with the injector issue, the stutter problem, and the DPF problems etc, IMO the newer PD engine isn't anywhere near as good or reliable as the previous 1.9 version that was in my Golf. It's not as smooth or as nice to drive either. Ive also been told that I need to replace the turbo now as well (46000 miles) because the actuator is playing up.

I can't speak on the CR but thought I'd share my experiences with the PD.

PD140 is a really good engine, PD170 Should be a really good engine but the Siemens ECU is what is causng the problems (All other PD have Bosch ECU)

Stutter problem on mine was cured by deleting the EGR Valve, DPF Problems where cured by Deleting the DPF

[Kenich]

Feels slow in the fact you don't get the thump of power but apart from that it is a lot quicker!

How much is a lot quicker? like a second off the 0 to 60 time for example? Or a higher top speed?

[jrw]

How much is a lot quicker? like a second off the 0 to 60 time for example? Or a higher top speed?

Sorry meant a lot quicker than the 130.

The 170s are the same I think but just deliver the power differently!

[AndrewJB]

Sorry meant a lot quicker than the 130.

The 170s are the same I think but just deliver the power differently!

i was about to say the CR isnt any quicker at all than the PD170

Its just about Emissions and power delivery

[ndicki]

PD140 is a really good engine, PD170 Should be a really good engine but the Siemens ECU is what is causng the problems (All other PD have Bosch ECU)

Stutter problem on mine was cured by deleting the EGR Valve, DPF Problems where cured by Deleting the DPF

My 2004 BKD PD140 is a... well, my older one has done 250,000 kms, but with a porous cylinder head, broken turbo and now as far as I can see, a dodgy crankshaft... My old 1999 1.9 90cv MkI Octy went to 320,000km, admittedly with a totally gummed-up turbo (but semi-decent performance up to about 60 mph all the same, which you won't get from a PD engine once the turbo stops cooperating) AND I could run it on 70% chip oil. Mistake to sell the thing, although as the wife had been driving it for a couple of years, there wasn't a single vertical body panel without at least one dent in, and the front and rear spoilers were hanging on by little more than blind faith...

[gwyn]

I used to have a PD140 Passat which was very heavy on oil and I found it unrefined. I now have a CR170 and it's far smoother and a joy to drive. Thing is, I know people who prefer the PD and other who love CR, it really is personal preference.

My advise would be to try them both, only then can you make a decition.

Both are powerful engines, but deliver the power differently.

Good luck

[wardth]

The CR is newer technology for a start. The fact it has smoother power delivery - more refined - means it is a better car to drive on a daily basis. The PD exhibited classic diesel power delivery - abrupt and violent and unrefined. It was artificially impressive - so what if the power came in all at once? The CR is MUCH more usable - wider powerband and a lot quieter and smoother.

[Fitz323]

I've never experienced the "all or nothing" power delivery in my PD. It's remapped now but even before, it rev'd hard all the way to the red line and never thought it had a narrow power band. Maybe I was lucky with mine as I have driven other TDi's that had these nasty traits.

[ndicki]

Nasty traits... Not sure. I can't say for the 170, never having driven one, but the 140 is a total blast! If you're not expecting it, it really does jerk your head back a bit when it hits the band. You soon get used to it, and learn when to change gears and avoid it if you don't want it.

[AndrewJB]

The CR is newer technology for a start.

Suprisingly the CR technology was around in the very early 1900's, But Yeh as far as VAG Group Engines are concerned its preety new! Other Marques have had CR Engines for ages

[cjb]

PD every day of the week

Yes it is noisier, but I for one loved the power delivery of my PD130, my 170CR feels slow compared.

My PD140 *feels* slow compared the the PD130 Fabia. I don't think it is, or at least not much, but the huge torque spike of the PD130 is definitely less with a PD140. I test drove a PD170 Golf, and that didn't seem that much quicker. It probably was though.

My main concern with the PD (and I own one), is the reliability. What with the injector issue, the stutter problem, and the DPF problems etc, IMO the newer PD engine isn't anywhere near as good or reliable as the previous 1.9 version that was in my Golf. It's not as smooth or as nice to drive either. Ive also been told that I need to replace the turbo now as well (46000 miles) because the actuator is playing up.

I can't speak on the CR but thought I'd share my experiences with the PD.

My local VAG independent say that the PD140 is generally worse for odd niggles. Mine has an occaisional stutter and lumpy tickover when warming up. Generally, it's fine though.

[wardth]

Suprisingly the CR technology was around in the very early 1900's, But Yeh as far as VAG Group Engines are concerned its preety new! Other Marques have had CR Engines for ages

Yep, Fiat invented it - I had a Punto HGT Multijet on a 55 plate! Just goes to show much of a bleeding antique the PD engine really is!

I rest my case

[Nick P]

Actually, Mercs were using common rail in the late 90s, but VAG PD engines only came out in 2000.

[dainott]

My missus has the PD170 in her Leon FR and my honest opinion its poor. Its noisy as hell and had nothing but problems with it. DPF issue is a right pain in the ar5e and its hit and miss whether it will be stuttering when you drive it. Also had the engine management light on god knows how many times and just doesnt feel that quick. The 1.9 diesel lump was so much better in 150bhp form and after driving a mates CR170 i would pick it every time!

I have a few mechanic mates in Audi and VW and when the old man was looking for a newish audi a6 the other day i asked on which engine to go for and all said that if buying a diesel go for the 2.5 or 2.7 and even the 1.9 (which still came in certain models late on), but to stay away from the PD 2.0 as nothing but trouble and the CR is much better but not great. I know that the first part of this paragraph aint a massive help as cant get these engines on the octy but just thought i would share mine and a few other opinions.

[ndicki]

And yet the 2.5 v6 163PS has a reputation for leaking oil everywhere and generally being sub-par... Or at least, when I ran a search for reliability, it came out badly. The old 1.9 used on the Octy MkI, I'd agree with - indestructible, though pretty sober to drive. One of mine went to 330,000km before I sold the car, and the other to 250,000 (written off vandalised). Never any trouble with either.