Ford Focus ST estate - worthy competitor to Octy vRS estate?

[Statto]

Hi folks,

Now that my Octy vRS estate CR is nearing two years old, I'm beginning my search for its replacement. But what to get? Go for another one in either diesel or petrol, or consider the Ford Focus ST estate? The Octy is pretty long in the tooth in quite a few respects - design, chassis, power and economy. Also, its replacement is another year or so away. Autocar have road tested the Ford Focus ST estate and it sounds like a pretty good package (I'm thinking ST2 spec in performance blue), and trumps the Octy in many respects. What are other people's thoughts? Worthy replacement, or just another "Ford", so doesn't come close?

I'm bracing myself for some Ford-bashing...

Statto

Edited 11 June, 2012 by Statto

[TB1]

You don't mention how you use the car, but the focus is quite a bit smaller than the Octavia, the boot being smaller and the width being noticeably more 'snug' inside the cabin. The focus does drive nice in its lesser forms and does look and feel more modern, but, there is a new Octavia next year!

[j0hn]

I had a Focus estate prior to my current mkII vRS hatch - the shape of the boot and the way the suspension was designed to mount externally, and not intrude into the load area, meant space was very useable and whilst there probably isn't much between the two in terms of capacity, I think the space in the Focus was better designed and easier to use. Its certainly on my list.

[marcevo1]

Now the thirsty 5 pot has been dropped it will appeal to a lot more people.

Not a great looker IMHO (looks Korean)

Shame it doesn't have the proper diff from the rs :(

Will probably depreciate hard as well?

Definately wouldn't dismiss it though.

[marcevo1]

Oh dear... Just saw some pictures of the rear and exhaust.... Not a good look - worse if you need to tow anything

[Nismo75]

Yeah not too keen on the twin exhaust located in the middle. Also won't have the space the octavia has either.

Would rather have a RS, guess I'll just stick to my vRS!!!!!

[rob_e]

The ford is more money and smaller - I can't see any reason to choose one over a vRS.

[vrs777]

Be very tempting second hand now they have dropped the 5 pot. Will handle very well and have plenty of tuning potential, 300bhp with a remap and exhaust. It will be on my list to look at, the old one was nice (hatch) but too thirsty.

[dainott]

Looks really smart to me and the reviews are excellent so far. If I was contemplating a new performance we state I would definately be interested. Always been a tremendous chassis just to thirsty, but looks like they have addressed that with the 2 litre. All their petrol range are very thirsty mind so wouldn't believe any claimed figures from them

[Statto]

Hi folks, thanks for all of the replies. Yes, the Octy is bigger but is that only significantly in terms of boot space? The ST has still got 1516 litres with the seats down, which is hardly pokey and still sufficient.

As for the Octy being cheaper, yes, I agree, but then it should be given that it's based on essentially the same design, underpinnings and hardware for the last 8 years or so. The difference is only about £1.5k when you compare their OTR prices, which is a fairer comparison to make than using the Octy's VAT-free price. Also, I'm certain that the price of the new Octy vRS mk3 will rise significantly when it eventually appears.

Reasons for choosing the ST over the vRS? It's:

- more powerful;

- quicker by the metrics of acceleration, top speed, and presumably handling;

- more purposeful-looking (although this is purely subjective);

- more economical (39.2mpg vs 37.7mpg combined);

- possibly better riding (Ford's tend to have a reputation of being able to combine good ride/handling).

Now I'm only speculating here, but I'm hoping that it'll have better sound insulation than the Octy, without needing to resort to buying and fitting secondary sound insulation like many have on this forum.  I'm also hoping that it'll be more "complete" out-of-the box than the Octy, so won't require expensive remapping and new suspension (and the associated knock-on costs to insurance) that many have felt the Octy needed.

[Guinness]

I couldn't live with that Focus interior though; very fussy and over-styled, but that's a personal thing I guess!

Anyway, is that a grey vRS I see in your sig - they're hard to find! Are you thinking of a private sale and if so could you PM me the details?

[blackspaven]

Just had a look at it,... and there's definitely a lot going on in the styling isn't there?! Almost looks like a Civic in both respects. Inside looks a bit thrown together for my liking..

[blackspaven]

Blimey, just been on Skoda's website and the cost of a new VRS estate is bloomin' expensive compare to when I got my L&K in 2008!! I know it's 4 years ago, but it's a hell of a jump! And you have to spend a lot to get anywhere near the amount of toys you got back then!

[mr_awol]

Hi folks, thanks for all of the replies. Yes, the Octy is bigger but is that only significantly in terms of boot space? The ST has still got 1516 litres with the seats down, which is hardly pokey and still sufficient.

As for the Octy being cheaper, yes, I agree, but then it should be given that it's based on essentially the same design, underpinnings and hardware for the last 8 years or so. The difference is only about £1.5k when you compare their OTR prices, which is a fairer comparison to make than using the Octy's VAT-free price. Also, I'm certain that the price of the new Octy vRS mk3 will rise significantly when it eventually appears.

Reasons for choosing the ST over the vRS? It's:

- more powerful;

- quicker by the metrics of acceleration, top speed, and presumably handling;

- more purposeful-looking (although this is purely subjective);

- more economical (39.2mpg vs 37.7mpg combined);

- possibly better riding (Ford's tend to have a reputation of being able to combine good ride/handling).

Now I'm only speculating here, but I'm hoping that it'll have better sound insulation than the Octy, without needing to resort to buying and fitting secondary sound insulation like many have on this forum.  I'm also hoping that it'll be more "complete" out-of-the box than the Octy, so won't require expensive remapping and new suspension (and the associated knock-on costs to insurance) that many have felt the Octy needed.

I don want to sound like I'm leaping to 'the defense of' the Octy, but having just decided what car to buy, and looking at pretty much all brands (apart from peugeot and Kia) I've decided to get another VRS, so I guess that kind of sets out my stall early on. Specific points I would make on your post though, are:

1) I think the size difference will be more than 'seats down litre-age'. You have to think about cabin width at the front (makes a difference as to whether you're gonna brush your fat mate's leg when putting it in first) and read passenger legroom (if you ever have rear passengers, or a babyseat).

2) this is the most important point I have - I REALLY don't see what you 'have' to compare OTR prices instead of the Octy's VAT-free price. Surely the issue is the amount of cash coming out of your wallet, not the impact of any marketing gimmicks which give a higher OTR but semi-permanent discount.......

3) I don't necessarily agree with your assumption that the Focus would have 'better' handling, or that Ford have a 'reputation for being able to

Combine good ride/handling'. Certainly, having had three company mondeos in the last five years, I couldn't agree that the brand has such a reputation although tet have all been mid spec, not STs, etc. I would admit that the Focus should handle better though, being smaller.

4) I currently have a TFSi VRS - I can't imagine that any other Octy's are MORE noisy than this. On that basis, I can't see your point about needing sound proofing - although maybe I'm just not fussed about a bit of road noise, or maybe I'm a bit deaf......

Overall, it sounds like you've already very much decided on the Focus, which is fine - I didn't, but then again if we all thought the same it would be a very boring world

[Guest]

I have to admit to being a badge snob so would rule the Ford out on that basis.

[rob_e]

I have to admit to being a badge snob so would rule the Ford out on that basis.

[vrs777]

The new focus feels every bit as large inside as the Octavia, not sure on legroom but the old one was good for legroom. Agree though the dash is fussy, bit will come as standard with lots of kit.

[RS939]

I had the old ST2 and it was great better than the Octy VRs pd170 we also had, to be honest the new one looks good but for the money its a lot.

Skoda's deals are certainly better than Fords, if this new one is anything like my old one then its worth a look, it will be a little smaller and that front end takes a bit of getting used to but lets wait and see what the press make of it.

The down side of buying a Focus is the DEALERS !!! GGRRRRR a nightmare to deal with.

[Nick P]

No doubt it's a decent car to drive but it looks too much like a Kia and the interior is nasty. What's with the tiny main sat nav screen too?

I never get why Ford get given such an easy time by the motoring press.

[Aspman]

Ford interior does try too hard with too much going on. The quality is ok but nothing special.

If they've dropped the 5 pot from the ST has it lost the growl? That was one of the best things about it. New Focus is certainly better looking than the old.

[vrs777]

Door plastics aside the actual interior is quite good quality. Fords always tend to have very good seats and steering wheels, two of the most important things in a car interior. The seats on this look fantastic and the wheel looks small and chunky. The other thing I liked about the last ST was the feel of the steering wheel, almost padded with a bit of give when grasped (Mercs are similar too). Some people prefer a solid wheel but I like the padded soft touch style ones and I'm sending a spare VRS wheel to RoyalSteering Wheels to have a retrim with white stitching and extra padding, hopefully making the wheel nice and chunky in the hand.

Again, brand new they will probably go for about 2K more than an equiv specced Octy but that gap will be very close come the second hand market, making them a fantastic buy once they are 4 years old, 300bhp (mapped) Estate that does 35mpg and costs about 9-10K... Yes please

[Nick P]

Fords always tend to have very good seats

I can't agree with that at all. I test drove a current shape Mondeo and the lateral support in the seats was just appalling - they were just designed to be comfortable for fat people.

[Statto]

About the ST's seats, they're Recaros, so will more likely be very good than not, unless someone can provide an example of Recaros fitted elsewhere that are rubbish. Conclusions based on the seats of bread and butter Focus and Mondeo models are not valid.

Put it this way, the relationship between the seats and the pedals can't be any more offset that the ones in the current Octy. I've commented on this before in this forum, and others in this forum have found the squab bolsters to dig into their thighs.

I agree that the sat nav screen is rather small, but I think it's sited much more closer to the driver's line of sight than the one in the Octy, which forces the driver to take their eyes off the road as they peer at the display lower down in the centre console.

Yeah, Ford dealers, certainly the ones in Edinburgh, leave a lot to be desired. I went into the one in Sighthill where the salesperson thought it'd be cool to use expletives to describe a car. I was only looking at a SportKa at the time, for crying out load! The business manager in the Portobello branch got all aggressive when I didn't accept their derisory offer of a trade-in. Skoda dealers are definitely more personable in my experience.

Edited 12 June, 2012 by Statto

[Statto]

...

2) this is the most important point I have - I REALLY don't see what you 'have' to compare OTR prices instead of the Octy's VAT-free price. Surely the issue is the amount of cash coming out of your wallet, not the impact of any marketing gimmicks which give a higher OTR but semi-permanent discount.......

...

4) I currently have a TFSi VRS - I can't imagine that any other Octy's are MORE noisy than this. On that basis, I can't see your point about needing sound proofing - although maybe I'm just not fussed about a bit of road noise, or maybe I'm a bit deaf......

Overall, it sounds like you've already very much decided on the Focus, which is fine - I didn't, but then again if we all thought the same it would be a very boring world

About point 2), the OTR price is very important. Put it this way, if you went and collected a new vRS today, and benefited from the VAT-free price, would you insure it at the value of the OTR price or the VAT-free price? I wouldn't want to risk insuring it at the VAT-free price, given that it's a temporary offer that could be withdrawn at any time. Can you imagine if the offer was withdrawn at the end of today, and you wrote it off tomorrow? I think you'd have a fight on your hands with the insurance company about making up the shortfall.

About point 4), is it an estate that you've got? Many on this forum, me included, have found that the road noise on the estate is unsatisfactorily loud, especially from the boot area. Owners have had to resort to adding extra sound insulation to minimise it, thus adding extra cost and weight.

And no, I haven't quite made up my mind about it yet. I'd like to test drive one, as well as a used Insignia VXR estate (my budget's about 25k) before making my mind up. Crikey, i've gone and shot myself in the foot and set myself up for some Vauxhall-bashing now!!!

[Aspman]

About point 2), the OTR price is very important. Put it this way, if you went and collected a new vRS today, and benefited from the VAT-free price, would you insure it at the value of the OTR price or the VAT-free price?

I suspect that the 'value' you give the insurance is a ruse to bump up your premium. If you have a write off the ins company will look to CAP etc to get the valuation not what you've put in.

Ford Dealer Vs Skoda. I've had a Skoda dealer swear at me and hang up the phone when I didn't buy from him. Ford dealers have all been fine to me, even Arnold Clark in Aberdeen.

GlenFord in Forfar are nice to deal with if not the cheapest. MacRae and D1ck in Perth have always been ok to speak with too.

Edited 12 June, 2012 by Aspman