The Mr Muscle VNT Turbo Treatment - thought we needed a guide of sorts

[johnny cabbage head]

johnny cabbage head, you have the same  model and issues as me

i am doing second mr muscle clean at weekend.

how much / freely is your actuator moving at the minute? 

mine is only around 8mm, but going to give it a hammering this time

 Hi Rick - after doing a thrid Mr Muscle clean from the exhaust side of turbo without any improvement -I have studied a video on a site and can see from the way the internals are constructed in the Turbo -that getting the oven cleaner to seep that far through the very fine gaps within the turbo which includes the Turbine blades on exhaust side -but then crucially through the back of the VNT mechanism deep within the Turbo ,is indeed a tall order!

I think the only way I can have half a chance of getting a deeper clean is to access the middle of the exhaust side of turbo via the EGR aperture,(probably why everyone else is having great success with their cleaning routine using Mr Muscle) It is very restricted to get at because of what looks like a cooler that is hiding the EGR bolts- though if I remove exhaust and push the CAT to one side I can hopefully take off the nuts fixing lower end of EGR pipe to manifold and bend the pipe to one side and slip in a tube to feed in the oven cleaner. - otherwise I will be working by "feel" as I cannot even see the damn nuts securing upper end of EGR pipe .

Anyone else with any tips to share on how to access this on a BXE  1.9 tdi engine would be appreciated   Anyway I will crack on and report back once I have had a go.

Hope this helps. (please note when I did the Mr Muscle through the exhaust side of turbo it did make a massive difference to acceleration- but it still goes into limp -just at a higher speed and under more load than before I cleaned it. So it still might be worth trying through the exhaust side of turbo first as its easier to access) Cheers !

[jamwatn]

I often wonder if this fix is purely a placebo because everyone reports change but it doesn't seem to stay.

[johnny cabbage head]

I often wonder if this fix is purely a placebo because everyone reports change but it doesn't seem to stay.

I think its results are probably related as to how badly your Turbo's internals are gummed up with Carbon deposits. I think mine was so badly coked up that I was not able to get the oven cleaner to seep into the miniscule gap behind the VNT ring in order to do its work.

I actually did a Fourth clean after the the subsequent three attempts had made a massive difference in acceleration and responsiveness. ( I would not have bothered if I had not seen such a big improvement after the first treatment)

 

I removed the EGR pipe which was a bit of a sod to remove due to the EGR cooler. but I wanted to get deep into the heart of the Turbo to give it a better chance of working and seeping into the back of the VNT ring to loosen carbon.

 

I fed pipe in to the  exhaust port where I removed EGR pipe and was a little concerned in case it was not threading its way down into turbo properly. I got a little paranoid after I started  pumping the cleaner foam in and after a ten second burst -nothing had come back up through the hole indicating that turbo was  was filled with foam ! after another two bursts of foam -STILL NO FOAM SHOWING  - I was worried I had pushed the foam into an open  cylinder in the engine and started to replace all the parts ready to blow the foam out in case it did any damage- then a small amount plopped out of the exhaust side of Turbo proving that at least some had got into the turbo charger.

I worked the actuator  200 times and decided that it was going full travel -though still a little stiff.

I rebuilt car and took for a spin.

I warmed it up and took it up a long hill and opened it up to 80- 90mph in a couple of bursts- this was looking much better !

I booted it up to 100 mph and it seemed slightly hesitant -then dropped back to 70mph and booted it up to 90 again - this time foot to the floor and it went into limp mode again DAMN !

 

However I don't normally drive like a drug dealer being chased by the police :clap:    , and if I drive it normally and keep to speed limit -it doesn't go into limp mode. I am merely trying to replicate the cars being pushed hard -eg when fully loaded when I pushed it to 100mph.

I also noticed that if I "feather " the accelerator as I increase speed- that it doesn't go into limp mode whatever speed I drive at- even 100 mph.(maybe suggesting that the actuator is the cause)

 

Its definatley not a placebo -the improvements in performance are very real indeed. but its not guaranteed to cure every case of sticky turbo.

I am still glad I caried out procedure and may even go for a fifth treatment via the EGR port again - this time with a newer less flexible pipe so I can be sure the foam is going where I want it to go- as I still feel the last attempt wasn't  pushing all the foam into turbo. there is overwhelming evidence on this site that Loftys treatment can - and does work...(but not always )

You pays yer money .......etc etc

cheers

[johnny cabbage head]

solved ... I have posted the end result as many people don't come back with their findings on some forums so nobody learns from other peoples experiences.

 

Just in case anyone else has the same problems even after Mr muscle - BEFORE YOU GO BUYING A NEW TURBO OR PULLING THE OLD ONE OFF FOR CLEANING !

 

 

I ended up doing 6 Mr muscle treatments (I know)    because each time I did it there was an improvement but STILL LIMP MODE !!

car had been going into limp all through winter so I suspected turbo probably caked inside

 

I cleaned MAF sensor with electrical contact spray though it looked OK

 

I cleaned MAP sensor which also looked OK

 

I wiggled the top of the combined solenoid vacuum where all the pipes go in and unclipped and re clipped the top back on as it felt a bit on the wobbly side to me.

 

I took off actuator Vacuum pipe (again having done this previously) I put a piece of aquarium tubing on and sucked the actuator plunger down whilst feeling for any roughness of travel as it moved - this seemed fine -even better than ever before.

 

I also held the vacuum on with tip of my tongue to see if there was any "creep " of the actuator , indicating a leaking actuator diaphragm -it held firm, and when I release it slid back OK.

 

 

I re attached the original vacuum pipe and got wife to start car and rev whilst I watched actuator which seemed to move in synch with revs.

I sprayed the VNT linkage where it joins the actuator with WD 40 PTFE spray- just belt and braces routine really as next step was turbo removal.

 

I asked wife to stop engine and there was the whine noise for a few seconds which has always been there in the past - but not since the limp mode saga started- then the pop of the vacuum going off.

I took it for a drive and gave it some welly- No more limp mode. I tried again the next day on a 60 mile journey carrying 4 adults and golf clubs etc  and took it up the Hill which had become my nemesis - I reached a errrm      very very high speed on this long drag of a hill and it just kept accelerating and then I eased off and joined the next motorway ramp I deliberatley left it in 5th and accelerated from 50 mph up to twice that speed... no limp mode :clap: :p .

 

So amongst those procedures ... one worked and I suspect either the MAP sensor or possibly the vacuum pipe , to actuator, albeit looking in great condition- as indeed all vac pipes do...I have ordered a set of silicone pipes to renew them all, plus a mity vac so I can test everything.

 

I am also going to buy VCDS since I dont need that money for a new turbo at the moment.

I will report back once I have replaced the vac pipes and I may well buy a spare MAP sensor to take to france when we go on holiday- subject to me running some VCDS tests of running data.

cheers guys and thanks for all the input :thumbup:   hoofing forum

[ChrisR656]

Hello everyone, I was just wondering if anyone had any instructions or tips for the PD150 version of this? Been reading every post to get some hints and it sounds like a ball ache... Lofty has done an awesome job with the Skoda version I have a mate thats done this on his Audi A3 BKD and had cracking results but can anyone help on the 150?

Anyone?

Edited 15 July, 2015 by ChrisR656

[Breezy_Pete]

Disconnect exhaust from turbo. Squirt Mr Muscle into turbo, not your eyes, hands etc. Leave there for a few minutes while manually 'working' the actuator. Re-connect exhaust. Drive car and hope to find your problem fixed.

[Dread1977]

solved ... I have posted the end result as many people don't come back with their findings on some forums so nobody learns from other peoples experiences.

 

Just in case anyone else has the same problems even after Mr muscle - BEFORE YOU GO BUYING A NEW TURBO OR PULLING THE OLD ONE OFF FOR CLEANING !

 

 

I ended up doing 6 Mr muscle treatments (I know)    because each time I did it there was an improvement but STILL LIMP MODE !!

car had been going into limp all through winter so I suspected turbo probably caked inside

 

I cleaned MAF sensor with electrical contact spray though it looked OK

 

I cleaned MAP sensor which also looked OK

 

I wiggled the top of the combined solenoid vacuum where all the pipes go in and unclipped and re clipped the top back on as it felt a bit on the wobbly side to me.

 

I took off actuator Vacuum pipe (again having done this previously) I put a piece of aquarium tubing on and sucked the actuator plunger down whilst feeling for any roughness of travel as it moved - this seemed fine -even better than ever before.

 

I also held the vacuum on with tip of my tongue to see if there was any "creep " of the actuator , indicating a leaking actuator diaphragm -it held firm, and when I release it slid back OK.

 

 

I re attached the original vacuum pipe and got wife to start car and rev whilst I watched actuator which seemed to move in synch with revs.

I sprayed the VNT linkage where it joins the actuator with WD 40 PTFE spray- just belt and braces routine really as next step was turbo removal.

 

I asked wife to stop engine and there was the whine noise for a few seconds which has always been there in the past - but not since the limp mode saga started- then the pop of the vacuum going off.

I took it for a drive and gave it some welly- No more limp mode. I tried again the next day on a 60 mile journey carrying 4 adults and golf clubs etc  and took it up the Hill which had become my nemesis - I reached a errrm      very very high speed on this long drag of a hill and it just kept accelerating and then I eased off and joined the next motorway ramp I deliberatley left it in 5th and accelerated from 50 mph up to twice that speed... no limp mode :clap: :p .

 

So amongst those procedures ... one worked and I suspect either the MAP sensor or possibly the vacuum pipe , to actuator, albeit looking in great condition- as indeed all vac pipes do...I have ordered a set of silicone pipes to renew them all, plus a mity vac so I can test everything.

 

I am also going to buy VCDS since I dont need that money for a new turbo at the moment.

I will report back once I have replaced the vac pipes and I may well buy a spare MAP sensor to take to france when we go on holiday- subject to me running some VCDS tests of running data.

cheers guys and thanks for all the input :thumbup:   hoofing forum

 

Any chance you can post some pictures of the vacuum you mention?, curious to know where this is and what it looks like

[LeeWilky]

Hi all. I have a Skoda Octavia 1.9 tide Ambiente 2008 that's done 50k miles and having the limp home mode issue. I took the car for a major service and health check and the mechanic said the turbo is over boosting and needs replacing.

Will this fix work for me as I can't afford a new turbo?

I have had a look around the engine and I'm stumped as to the location of my turbo!

I have limited expertise in engine work also.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[johnny cabbage head]

Any chance you can post some pictures of the vacuum you mention?, curious to know where this is and what it looks like

the vacuum pipe is on the actuator on the side of the Turbo charger - you can follow it back up to the N75 solenoid valve (this controls the vacuum on and off as required by ECU) The N75 valve is located on the passenger side of the engine bay bulkhead on most models -though it may be in a different place on some models- simply follow the vacuum pipe from the Turbo actuator to find it. sorry dont have any photos though if you go on you tube and type in N75 valve you will no doubt see a picture of one. sorry for delay in reply - been to france camping (car went into limp mode once on way down and again on way back -but I hammered it coming home and it drives much much better - it only went  into limp mode if I really hammered it -over 90mph.

cheers hope this helps

[johnny cabbage head]

Hi all. I have a Skoda Octavia 1.9 tide Ambiente 2008 that's done 50k miles and having the limp home mode issue. I took the car for a major service and health check and the mechanic said the turbo is over boosting and needs replacing.

Will this fix work for me as I can't afford a new turbo?

I have had a look around the engine and I'm stumped as to the location of my turbo!

I have limited expertise in engine work also.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

lee follow this link it will show you where the Turbo is situated on a TDI car- also a bit of info on what causes overboost AKA  limp mode. sorry for delay in reply -been on holiday.home this helps best regards John

[johnny cabbage head]

lee follow this link it will show you where the Turbo is situated on a TDI car- also a bit of info on what causes overboost AKA  limp mode. sorry for delay in reply -been on holiday.home this helps best regards John

doh -I forgot link silly me  !

[mpow3r]

I have a fabia BLT Engine with hybrid turbo and there isnt an egr valve. I can however see where it is blanked off. So i can just remove the 2 nuts for the blank, shove a pipe in there until it goes no further and spray away?  My egr blank is like in video below, is it ok to follow this video?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbUAfzi5BdM

[mpow3r]

Theres also this video which takes the downpipe off the side of the turbo and sprays directly into turbo.  Read the whole thread and see someone mention that the extended nozzle doesn't spray into the cylinders???  Wouldn't this  way be safer as it goes directly into the turbo

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbUAfzi5BdM

[Breezy_Pete]

When I did this with a mate and his ASV-engine-code Octavia, we gave up fairly rapidly trying to poke a pipe down from the EGR port on the manifold. On that manifold/turbo combination you really don't have a hope of knowing whether your oven cleaner would be going towards the turbo or the head, not sure how samey or different that one is to others. Think its a PD110?

 

Undoing the three nuts to disconnect the downpipe from the side of the turbo seemed a much more definite way of getting the oven cleaner where it's meant to go. Fixed it too.

[mpow3r]

Cheers Wino. Think i'll do it that way too. I have egr delete so it seems easier to go from the top but I'm afraid of getting the rubber hose in the wrong hole lol

[mpow3r]

Well daaamn, i just spent nearly whole day (3pm to 8.30) doing this, most of the time was spent trying to get that dam decat pipe off.  There's one nut that is a total bitch to get to and no matter which angle I went from I just couldn't get a socket or spanner on to it, mainly because there is a thin hard stainless pipe snaking near it and wouldn't let me get angle on the nut.  I then proceeded to remove air intake hose, also had to loosen a large aluminium pipe behind the egr delete (I think its something to do with anti shudder delete) undid the egr blank. Then tried to wedge my head in betwen strut brace and windscreen to see shape of manifold an try to follow the EGR pipe to make sure I knew which angle to make the pipe so it definitely went down to turbo, ended up having to remove strut brace. Then got a thin hose, curved it and did my best to "feel" which way it was going.  Spent a long time doing that as I was shting it.  Then remembered I hadnt gaffa taped the nozzle for MM can to hose (I used the WD40 lid with built in nozzle) Then had t faff about taping the nozzle to pipe without pulling it out.  Started the squirting, after a few seconds I saw the mr musle foaming and exiting the EGR so stopped.

 

I then went under car to see if I could find cause of the TC light coming on. I looked under the alternator as in a guide I saw but couldnt see any broken wires.  I did however find one under the passenger side (alternator is drivers side). Got all excited. Finally managed to put in another piece of wiring to link it back up.

 

Oh and I was playing with the actuator every 10 or so minutes. It was quie hard to press from under the car so I stuck a long thin extensoin from  under the bonnet and used that to press the he actuator down. It did ease up after a while but whole movement wasnt much, I'd say about 2cm's.  It was a little easier to move later on but not by much.

 

Put everything back together and only paused every t10 or so minutes to give actuator a 20-30 pushes.

 

Had supper and it had been about 2 hours it had been in there by then so took it for a spin.

 

First thing I noticed was that my courtesy lights now worked when I opened and closed the door!! They hadnt worked since I bought the car.

 

Took it easy for 10-15 minutes until oil had reached 90deg. Then gave it a good redlining in 2nd and 3rd, couldnt do 4th as I was going too fast and it's drizzling here.  Gave it full throttle it various revs in 3rd and 4th and happy to say car really did feel like a hybrid again.  Before if I would floor it at 30mph in 4th gear it would just chuck out black smoke and feel like a 130pd. I had to be in right gear at right speed to feel full power of the hybrid.  Now I can feel the pickup even if I am doing low speed in high gear, then when it getsin right powerband it takes off. It did bog down and smoke a lot once when I was in high gear low revs but it was only the once.  Im not sure if this is a characteristic of the map on the car or not.  BUt in righ gear and revs it really does fly and feels like it is doing it easier than before.

 

I might do this again in a few weeks when I service it.

 

Next is VCDS and Mr Faboka with the MPPS just to get his expert opinion on the map.  Oh and I want to see if im still getting that alternator load error.

Edited 20 August, 2015 by mpow3r

[shakVRS]

Turbo cleaning with mr muslce

hello guys any 1 know how to do this and are willing to do this method of cleaning the turbo for me?. I live in south yorkshire and willing to travel close by to south yorkshire just trll me how much you want for the work

thanks

[JerryS]

how do you do this on a bmn pd170 dpf engine, it looks like you can only access the turbo from underneath by taking out the drive shaft

[Dread1977]

how do you do this on a bmn pd170 dpf engine, it looks like you can only access the turbo from underneath by taking out the drive shaft

 

I second that motion... ive been waiting for someone to post a decent enough guide for me to follow on this.. Anyone located near kent that has done this and would like to earn beer tokens??

[JerryS]

I managed to clean mine with 2 shots of revive. I know its as clean as a whistle as I have taken the actuator off and can move the mechanism by breathing on it!!

My problem appears to be the actuator mechanism itself (after advice from a vw master tech) which has a very small leak on it when you do the blow test.

Have spent ages removing it, had to buy some swan-neck spanners (half moon and crows feet were no good) and cut down the 10mm  to get on the bottom nut on the actuator rod.

1 lost 10mm socket later and lots of shiny new tools bought and hey presto, it looks like i have the problem nailed.

Just got to put it together again  tomorrow.......................................

[rbdazza]

Trying to do this on my 02 leon Tdi but can't get the hex bolts out of the egr!

Any advice? I think my problem is not having a small enough rachet but everywhere shut now and car in bits!

[rbdazza]

Scratch that. I got in with the Mr muscle But the actuator will not budge in either direction

[kissifer]

Just looking for a quick heads up really.

 

My PD 140 Octavia II is going in to limp mode when under load, such up a slip road to the motorway, also when you've booted it to get into a gap but then come off throttle.

 

At start up, only from cold, I nearly always get a few seconds of blue smoke. But nothing once running.

 

Would Mr Muscle sort this turbo going into limp mode out? Or is the blue smoke an indication of something else and a new turbo is needed?

 

If there is anyone near to me, in Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire, that would be willing to have a go at this with me, I'd be most appreciative.

[TurboTurbot]

Did this a year ago on my Mk1 TDI Octy - it worked, though not entirely convincingly (a bit like some here, when pushed really hard, it would still limp, but far less often than before). Actually in the run up to the MM treatment, the N75 wastegate valve had blown and I had a "professional clean" done at an auth. dealer - to no avail. After having 'fun' spraying foam over self, and friend whilst figuring out how to keep the flexible tube on the can nozzle (!) things went quite well. Actuator arm was pretty well jammed to start with, but got moving. Hose clips are tough to get on and off, by the way - need to be careful they don't fly! Wear Goggles (I managed to get some MM in my eye). OK, here we are a year on and limp mode is back whenever I call for some welly. I will be doing the treatment again and hoping it works. I noticed that at least one person got the soot cleared only after 6 treatments!

[TurboTurbot]

To Kissifer and anyone else with this querie - I have only the experience of one car, but would say that the blue smoke is nothing to do with it (and a common experience at this time of year with an older diesel). Other symptoms that accompany my VNT clogging problem include a characteristic sound when the turbo has been brought in and spins down - it makes an interrupted almost scraping sound like chi-chi-cha-cho-choo, rather than the smooth downgliding whistle sound it should. Also the actuator arm is really hard to move manually (see if you can find yours and push it down). When faced with a tough hill, especially when the engine is still cold, it sometimes 'chuff's - heitant and jerky power, making a chuffing noise that corresponds with the turbo seemng to spin, get stuck, try again and so on, opening and closing its actuator (?) - I'm not sure about that last bit. You will see there are other explanations for the sudden limp on loading (e.g. loss of vacume), but most people here have found the MM VNT cleanup to help. If you do it right, it seems no harm is done, but I must say describing it has raised a few eyebrows in the trade. I am having another go on Saturday.