The psychology behind the useage of fog lights.

[Llanigraham]

I freely admit to driving with my foglights on. The output from the projector headlights on the roomster is woeful even with 100w bulbs.

I have an HID kit waiting to fit, and if this makes a difference to the headlights then I'll quit using the fogs.

I drive with dipped headlights on in full daylight always have done, surely better to be as visible as possible at all times? IMHO.

100w bulbs are not always the answer as the major element of the lights is design of the reflector and lens and it's relationship with the length of the bulb. Lots of the 100w bulbs are poorly made and the focal point of the bulb is too far from the reflector, even only by a few mill's. HID replacement kits can have exactly the same problem. Both can, and do, result in extra glare and indistinct beam pattern. Good quality replacement bulbs such as the high powered Osram or Phillips have the correct focal length and can be a better option.

One has to wonder when you need this extra light. If it is when on high beam then a fog light puts it's light in totally the wrong place, as it gives a flat beam close to the car, whereas what you reaaly need is a spread of light well in front of you. That would be provided by an auxillary "driving light" (often incorrectlt known as a spot light).

I had a similar "complaint" about the range of the standard non-HID lights on the Yeti and replaced the standard bulbs with Osram Night Breaker Plus bulbs which has greatly improved the situation, and if I could find a way I would be fitting a set of Hella Comet driving lights I have in the shed, as I know these give an excellent long distance beam.

And to be honest I think you are a good example of why some people do use their fog lights, because they actually haven't fully understood what they want to do or what the actual answer is.

[Mr Ree]

Talking of poor lights, I had a pretty poor and shockingly disappointing experience with xenons on my Octy L&K a few years ago tbh.

Can't for the life of me understand what all the excitement is about. Used to shake when you hit a pothole or even a mild bump in the road, and was fully aware that they were a PITA for oncoming motorists

.

Light output wasn't that devastatingly exciting either in my humble opinion, no, just adequate, bit like adequate on all my other cars that I've owned, past and present.

Still here and alive to tell the tale, so standard lights can't be that bad after all.

Just yet another mad example of trendy utter nonsense, dreamed up by manufacturers and the government to rake the dosh in...BIG dosh, when units fail, deeming old cars in years to come, to the scrapyard because of the exhorbitant cost of replacemnt units to pass the mot if they fail on them.

Me with my old candle bulbs?

Tenner for two down The Halfrauds, laffin!

.

It's all a scam , I tell you.

Call me an owld cynic if you want. :sun:

Edited 29 December, 2012 by Mr Ree

[TriggerFish]

Have you experienced them from behind the wheel?

Or is your dislike of them based on your experience of seeing them on other cars?

The latter, granted. I don't protest actively against them, I just find them mildy annoying. I'm not saying they're a bad idea, I just don't like the way most cars have them positioned. I've seen BMWs with them in the main light cluster, which makes more sense IMO as it's less distracting to other drivers. I also think they look a bit strange too in the fog light position, and do believe the moving headlights are a better idea.

Out of interest, do they just use the fog light bulb, or is there a properly aimed bulb in there to light up a higher area of the road? As I imagine just using fog lights would make very little difference (based upon all the cars with fogs lights I've been in making very little difference to usable light on the road). Or does that vary depending upon the value of the car new?

[MartynVRS]

Lights on cars have never bothered me as long as some light comes out of them. I ate my carrots when I was younger

[slider]

Not a lover of fog lights being used at night unless visibility is very poor, but have no objection to anyone using fogs, DRL's. dipped lights or whatever during the day is it helps them be seen.

As I said above I had a hire car with cornering lights recently and found them a great bonus on dark country roads. - I was in Georges neck of the woods so probably p!ssed his off big style

[Jonny5ive]

100w bulbs are not always the answer as the major element of the lights is design of the reflector and lens and it's relationship with the length of the bulb. Lots of the 100w bulbs are poorly made and the focal point of the bulb is too far from the reflector, even only by a few mill's. HID replacement kits can have exactly the same problem. Both can, and do, result in extra glare and indistinct beam pattern. Good quality replacement bulbs such as the high powered Osram or Phillips have the correct focal length and can be a better option.

One has to wonder when you need this extra light. If it is when on high beam then a fog light puts it's light in totally the wrong place, as it gives a flat beam close to the car, whereas what you reaaly need is a spread of light well in front of you. That would be provided by an auxillary "driving light" (often incorrectlt known as a spot light).

I had a similar "complaint" about the range of the standard non-HID lights on the Yeti and replaced the standard bulbs with Osram Night Breaker Plus bulbs which has greatly improved the situation, and if I could find a way I would be fitting a set of Hella Comet driving lights I have in the shed, as I know these give an excellent long distance beam.

And to be honest I think you are a good example of why some people do use their fog lights, because they actually haven't fully understood what they want to do or what the actual answer is.

Well balanced post Graham. I've tried all types of bulbs including, the Osrams and Phillips uprated ones.

I only bought the HIDs as a last attempt before moving onto sourcing some non projector light units from a poverty spec fabia or roomster to replace the single bulb bi-projector units as they are really poor.

The light pattern on them is woeful and not a patch on the regular reflector (separate bulbs for main and dipped beam) units fitted in my father in laws roomy. I have just uprated the bulbs in his car and am living in envy.

Using my fogs illuminates the part of the road low down in front of my car where the projector lights leave a big black hole. Adjusting them down from inside the cabin, to their lower most setting to fill the black hole reduces the beam distance considerably and does not illuminate the field of vision well at all.

Rock and a hard place it seems. Perhaps the driving lights are the solution? I'll compare the price vs OEM reflector units if the HIDs don't work out.

[Llanigraham]

Out of interest, do they just use the fog light bulb, or is there a properly aimed bulb in there to light up a higher area of the road? As I imagine just using fog lights would make very little difference (based upon all the cars with fogs lights I've been in making very little difference to usable light on the road). Or does that vary depending upon the value of the car new?

Can only reply as to the Yeti, but they use the standard fog lights with the normal fitted bulb.

I find them very useful, but then I do not live or work in an urban area; so darkness is the norm and they do help to pick out anything on the corner.

[Llanigraham]

Well balanced post Graham. I've tried all types of bulbs including, the Osrams and Phillips uprated ones.

I only bought the HIDs as a last attempt before moving onto sourcing some non projector light units from a poverty spec fabia or roomster to replace the single bulb bi-projector units as they are really poor.

The light pattern on them is woeful and not a patch on the regular reflector (separate bulbs for main and dipped beam) units fitted in my father in laws roomy. I have just uprated the bulbs in his car and am living in envy.

Using my fogs illuminates the part of the road low down in front of my car where the projector lights leave a big black hole. Adjusting them down from inside the cabin, to their lower most setting to fill the black hole reduces the beam distance considerably and does not illuminate the field of vision well at all.

Rock and a hard place it seems. Perhaps the driving lights are the solution? I'll compare the price vs OEM reflector units if the HIDs don't work out.

And there you have it.

What you want is "range" and that is exactly what fog lights or dropping the lights down won't give you. A better constructed light lens unit should help as would a set of auxillary lights, but the problem with the latter is finding somewhere to mount them. I've been trying to sort something out on my Yeti for 18 months and still haven't found a suitable method!

[Ootohere]

slider,

i can not see me getting annoyed at someone out on back roads and needing some extra lighting to assist them, as long as they remember other road users & go back to normal lighting and slow down so that others are not disadvanteged by the 'Special Lighting'

Those that need 'Special Lighting' in town or on normal roads with cats eyes, white lines, clear signs and markings and never consider others, Cars, Biles, Vans, Cyclists, pedestrains are the spawn of the Devil.

well,

actually just a PITA quite often.

More lighting is not always better if it reduces the vision others have. JMO.

george

I think these are the answer to the younger generation with bad eye sight from too much net porn,

& who think the sky and the roads are darker now.

The 'i can see OK, what your problem'. lot. Well let the road be brighter for them.

[slider]

And there you have it.

What you want is "range" and that is exactly what fog lights or dropping the lights down won't give you. A better constructed light lens unit should help as would a set of auxillary lights, but the problem with the latter is finding somewhere to mount them. I've been trying to sort something out on my Yeti for 18 months and still haven't found a suitable method!

Real lights :yes:

[fordfan]

Dim dip are great, got them on my car at least it doesn't get noticed if you've got a position light not working.

I don't think that the manufacturers help, I was asked by a customer to activate the DRLs on his 59 plate Octavia, even though it had separate lamps next to the fog lamps, there was still the option to use the fog lamps as DRLs.

You don't know what poor headlamps are until you've experienced a 45 watt dipped beam from blackened Tungsten bulbs.

[Evil Miyagi]

Cornering fogs aren't for the benefit of other road users though

They give directional light to the direction the driver is going (it's a cheaper alternative to directional headlights)

[ScoobyChris]

The latter, granted. I don't protest actively against them, I just find them mildy annoying. I'm not saying they're a bad idea, I just don't like the way most cars have them positioned. I've seen BMWs with them in the main light cluster, which makes more sense IMO as it's less distracting to other drivers. I also think they look a bit strange too in the fog light position, and do believe the moving headlights are a better idea.

I specced the 'adaptive' bi-xenons on my Mini which basically moved the dipped/main beam with the steering wheel - it was part of the Vision pack (IIRC) and had to be on if you wanted to use the auto-lights. It sounded like an interesting idea, but practically, you really want to be illuminating the corner before you start to steer into it so in the end it didn't make a huge difference. Can't say I miss them - bi-xenons are pretty good on their own

Chris

[grr666]

I specced the 'adaptive' bi-xenons

I'm considering having the full beam assistant

retro fitted. On the Audi you have to change the rear view mirror

and do some coding and that's about it.

[Mr Ree]

Aggggggghhhhh...taken me 3 days to suddenly notice that I spelt physcology incorrectly in the thread title, and i can't edit it now.

A mod. Please do it for me, as it's now doing me head in every tiime I see it!

Do carry on.

[Mr Ree]

Tar, whoever it was!

[@Lee]

Aggggggghhhhh...taken me 3 days to suddenly notice that I spelt physcology incorrectly in the thread title, and i can't edit it now.

A mod. Please do it for me, as it's now doing me head in every tiime I see it!

Do carry on.

you spelt it incorrectly again! Psychology

[Aspman]

I think people using front fogs all the time are a bit sad for the most part but I've rarely been dazzled by them. Big 4x4 occasionally cause an issue because they're just that much higher.

I have more problems with misaligned lights on cars and xenons feckin dazzling me. I know people love them here but the auto adjustment on a lot of them simply doesn't work and I'm regularly blinded by the bloody things.

[blueR36]

I wrote to Autocar at the time wondering why dim-dip dissapeared now I know. I remember when they were 1st introduced my Dad had me look behind the lights to see the coil "wasting" the electric ! The local taxi driver in an Avenesis always has his fogs on

[fordfan]

I have more problems with misaligned lights on cars and xenons feckin dazzling me. I know people love them here but the auto adjustment on a lot of them simply doesn't work and I'm regularly blinded by the bloody things.

It isn't so much the headlamps that are out of alignment as replacement bulbs that are fitted incorrectly. They produce a wrong beam image which causes dazzle. The number of times we notify customers of this only to be told that they had the bulb recently fitted by a certain national car parts retailer.

[VladSoilerOfCarpets]

I use mine on country roads with no lighting, but always turn them off if a car comes the other way or I come up behind someone.

They really make a difference in mine.

[Mr Ree]

you spelt it incorrectly again! Psychology

I know. I was just testing to see if some of you's were alert. .

[Titanium_Man]

I think I have said something wrong to upset a few people on this thread as a couple of people have stated they use their fog lights in a similar fashion to myself but has gone unmentioned :wonder:

In a word, YES!

I'm guessing this has a large part to play as it has come across a bit rude. That said, it was me simply being honest because that is how I am but it may come across wrong when written on paper or on an internet forum where body language, tone etc do not come across

IMHO this is no different to me asking the same question to the majority of road users (and forum members) about their normal speed and whether they consider themselves as someone who speeds. The honest answer to most of us would be yes, and don't say you don't because the majority of people on the road drive above the specified limit. IE 33/34 in a 30, 75/80 on a motorway etc.

I drive the same as I have stated above and find I am simply keeping with the other road users. I am honest enough to admit that but I doubt most of the poster in this thread will admit it themselves.

Most of the ill feelings towards me is a bit harsh and unnecessary given (as I previously stated, but guess not obvious enough) I very rarely find myself in a situation where I need to use my fog lights as I live in a city where there is plentiful light and light pollution and therefore my tinted lights are not a problem. It is when I am in the deepest darkest parts of the countryside where there is no help from street lights and light pollution from built up areas. This is generally on a single track country road miles away from any city and this is once or twice a year. (Google "Cheriton Fitzpaine" as an example of a place I go once or twice a year to get an idea of the sort of places I am talking about )

This also means that IF I came across another road user the chances of me being in front of them long enough to dazzle is slim to none given I will know they are coming and will have plenty of time to turn off my fogs and high beams... unlike some of the inconsiderate twonks on the road who feel the need to leave their high beams on until the very last minute before turning them off.... oh but a lot wait too long and dazzle me (and others ) which is more dangerous (and much more likely to cause an accident IMO) than low level fog lights that some on this thread consider not worthy of being on a car.

Ok obviously not a joke. Each to their own I guess, IF your low level fog lights provide such little light and could never blind anyone, why do you need them on? If they are giving you enough light to replace the light missing from you dipped beam I`d guess they are seriously out of alignment.

I didn't actually say they could never blind anyone, although I personally have never been blinded by a front fog light, as with Deadmau5 and possibly others within this thread, I don’t see front fogs being on when not foggy an issue visually.

My car was MOT'd in October and no advisory for my beam pattern, not been in any accident, changed any bulbs etc so can safely assume my alignment is correct given it's an MOT failure if the alignment is not right. As such, I think It is also safe to assume it is the tint which is effecting the light output on my car.

I think it's all down to ignorance:

As for tinting your headlamps to an extent which reduces their light output, that's just plain stupid and I hate having to share the roads with drivers that do stupid things to their cars, or skimp on their cars maintenance or drive in an inconsiderate manner.

The psychology is:

'I'll do as I want, sod anyone else and if I get reprimanded for it then it must be somebody else’s fault'

I have the lightest tint sold by Lamin-x and as I understand it, this is not illegal. Given that I can see properly in 99.9% of driving situations I fail to see how this is stupid?!?

I am a considerate and responsible road user and do not fall under your version of "psychology".

But believe it or not there are some other people out there - and they can and are dazzled by inappropriate and illegal use of fog lights = I sincerely hope one of these people Mr Plod and give you some penalty points as a belated Christmas present.

That's not showing great community spirit is it Slider but i guess you couldn't read my original post from your high horse as if you had read it properly you will see I am a considerate driver with very little potential to dazzle other drivers given the circumstances and how I use my fogs in conjunction with my high beams.

Not a lover of fog lights being used at night unless visibility is very poor, but have no objection to anyone using fogs, DRL's. dipped lights or whatever during the day is it helps them be seen.

I appreciate you may not be referring to dark country single track roads as poor visibility, but IMO these dark and twisty single track roads do have poor visibility and I guess like everyone else, If you feel your visibility is poor, you increase the light and put you full beams on, as do I, just in slightly different circumstances.

slider,

i can not see me getting annoyed at someone out on back roads and needing some extra lighting to assist them, as long as they remember other road users & go back to normal lighting and slow down so that others are not disadvanteged by the 'Special Lighting'

Ah someone talking sense and not getting annoyed at the mere fact I have "broken the law" and want to hang me for it.....this is exactly what I do!

I used to love coming onto Briskoda, reading a few interesting threads, getting some help, giving some help etc, but I have been on the sick for the last 5 weeks now and the more time I have spend on here the less I am enjoying it and the more obvious the problems this forum has, including who the "trolls" are. Others have commented on "cliques" and for me, this thread has highlighted this and can see why other posters have made comments about these "cliques" and how they perceive to bully/gang up on other posters because they don’t agree with what is being written.

Look at johhny5's post.... he has admitted the use of illegal HIDs, but as he is a longstanding member and a known person on this forum, nothing is said. Someone even went as far as congratulating his honesty (nothing against you johnny , just using that post as an example ) whereas I was slated for doing the same. (being honest)

OK, my response to the statement/question about knowingly breaking the law may have annoyed a few people, but what kind of response would you expect to that statement/question? A blatant lie? No, not from me and nor should it be from anyone else given we as drivers have a duty to know the highway code and any other related laws of the road, so any other answer than yes to that posted question/statement would be wrong!

Rant over, back on topic......

As already stated by a poster, there are many reasons why people choose to use their front fogs when it is not foggy. Some have a fairly decent argument (like me, you may or may not agree) other "chavs" do it to "look cool".

Regardless of the reasons, two wrongs dont make a right, and by flashing your main beems at them to show your anger/annoyance/believe to be a policeman/on a higher horse than anyone else, that response alone is more dangerous and will more likely cause an accident than the little light at the bottom of your bumper itself!

[Ootohere]

Well said/written. IMHO.

I like your honesty.

george

[taff170]

Well said/written. IMHO.

I like your honesty.

george

As do I.

Well thought out IMHO.