Lofty how did you link a tt arb to you joms? I didn't think they had the arb drop link mount?

Sorry to OP but does the VRS not have a RARB as standard then? Sorry probably a stupid question!

He's got a Leon tDi...

And the vRS does not have a rear sway bar (which is what we are actually referring to here, rarb is a bit of a misnomer)

The only actual RARB is a tube built into the woefully weak and inadequate standard MKIV Golf axle.

Every vRS would benefit from a little extra bolstering on the rear.

So would just putting a TT standard one on or S3 or similar improve the standard handling until funds allowed for uprated?

RARB? You'll need to go aftermarket for rarb. Whiteline is the cheapest option although personally I think the mounting system is crap, but that's just me being a worrier, and totally clashing with their lack of engineering, and to be fair, the shape isn't the strongest option compared to the alternatives. Which is part of the reason why it is a good match for the standard vRS arb, and the difference between that and a 28mm is quite overwhelming.

RARB? You'll need to go aftermarket for rarb. Whiteline is the cheapest option although personally I think the mounting system is crap, but that's just me being a worrier, and totally clashing with their lack of engineering, and to be fair, the shape isn't the strongest option compared to the alternatives. Which is part of the reason why it is a good match for the standard vRS arb, and the difference between that and a 28mm is quite overwhelming.

I'm assuming whiteline have changed the design, as my Whiteline 24mm adjustable arb, mounts pretty much the same as the Neuspeed one does, with 2 mini drop links going direct to the bottom shock bolt, rather than to 2 little blocks.

Lofty how did you link a tt arb to you joms? I didn't think they had the arb drop link mount?

they go to the standard wishbone links on the tdi, under the shaft

So would just putting a TT standard one on or S3 or similar improve the standard handling until funds allowed for uprated?

the 23mm tt one is more than adequate as a permanent upgrade, no need to upgrade again, if its on the tdi or non vrs anyway

I'm assuming whiteline have changed the design, as my Whiteline 24mm adjustable arb, mounts pretty much the same as the Neuspeed one does, with 2 mini drop links going direct to the bottom shock bolt, rather than to 2 little blocks.

It was the crappy U bolt clamps I was referring to. Pathetic rubbish, imo. A really naff solution, risking damage to the beam. Especially if some numpty overtightens it.

It was the crappy U bolt clamps I was referring to. Pathetic rubbish, imo. A really naff solution, risking damage to the beam. Especially if some numpty overtightens it.

Ahh ok, yeh they still use the U bolts, but the straight bar that goes over the beam is pretty thick, so not sure how you could over tighten it and damage the beam ?

I'd expect the U clamps to snap first.

Easy. It's not the same shape as the beam (the U clamps don't even remotely follow the odd profile of the beam), and the beam iteself is pretty thin metal. Wouldn't take much pressure to change the shape of it at all. I bought one, looked at it, and sold it straight on in disgust. And then there's the flex in operation...

Easy. It's not the same shape as the beam (the U clamps don't even remotely follow the odd profile of the beam), and the beam iteself is pretty thin metal. Wouldn't take much pressure to change the shape of it at all. I bought one, looked at it, and sold it straight on in disgust. And then there's the flex in operation...

Ok fair enough, i'm happy with mine though, even set on medium, I felt the difference even just driving to the bottom of the road.

I will be changing it to hard soon though

I have taken some pictures today of the octy vrs front arb and stock bushes

Hopefully will be handy as there is a lot of hear say about bush sizes / arb sizes etc. hopefully they will help members in the future

Will upload when i get home

Hi, I was reading this thread for a friend who's recently bought a VRS and thought I'd just point a couple of things out.

yes you are right, 23mm matches the 28mm perfectly...25 is a little too much imo, and 21 is not enough with the 28mm rear.

You cannot compare ARB's by diameter, even OE bars can be made from different materials making their torsional rigidity disproportional to their diameter.

He's got a Leon tDi...

And the vRS does not have a rear sway bar (which is what we are actually referring to here, rarb is a bit of a misnomer)

The only actual RARB is a tube built into the woefully weak and inadequate standard MKIV Golf axle.

Every vRS would benefit from a little extra bolstering on the rear.

This is just wrong, an anti-roll bar and a sway bar are identical items, Europeans tend to use the term anti-roll bar and our American cousins call them sway bars.

Also you can't make blanket statements like 'Every vRS would benefit from a little extra bolstering on the rear' without a full understanding of suspension tuning.

they go to the standard wishbone links on the tdi, under the shaft

did you use the standard drop links?

Hi, I was reading this thread for a friend who's recently bought a VRS and thought I'd just point a couple of things out.

You cannot compare ARB's by diameter, even OE bars can be made from different materials making their torsional rigidity disproportional to their diameter.

This is just wrong, an anti-roll bar and a sway bar are identical items, Europeans tend to use the term anti-roll bar and our American cousins call them sway bars.

Also you can't make blanket statements like 'Every vRS would benefit from a little extra bolstering on the rear' without a full understanding of suspension tuning.

The op can make a statement about vrs models benefitting from extra bolstering on the rear, as he owns one, and understands how understeer/oversteer works, and that vrs models are setup to understeer more than oversteer to help drivers correct the car should something go wrong, understeer is much easier than oversteer to deal with (for the average driver anyway). Its widely recognised that fitting a rear arb to the vrs is one of the main big mods that this car can benefit from greatly!

Bar thickness can also be discussed, as i have fitted at some point or other most of the bars out there (so have several others on here), so can compare different bars from personal experience, especially the vag bars versus the aftermarket bars out there. Of course you are right in a sense, thicker bars can be exponetially more rigid than a bar a mm thinnerfor example. For the purpose of the conversation however, a perfect match to the 23mm r32 front arb, is the 25mm rear eibach or neuspeed bar. Equally a 21mm front vag bar, is not a good match to a 28mm rear upgrade bar...a better choice to match the front would be the 25mm rear eibach or neuspeed bar or the 24mm whiteline bar in this instance.

Well heres my findings

Octavia vrs 51 plate

Arb 19mm (no plastic sleeve)

Bush measures 17.5mm so i would guess new this would have been a 17mm bush

vrs bar being 19mm..even smaller than the r32 21mm and 23mm bars we have been talking about previously in the thread, means even less of a match to the 28mm bar sadly.

That being said..the stock bar upfront (where we all started from) is good with a whiteline rear, or eibach 25mm bar also, so perhaps as you said, sell the bar on, you will make some on it as you paid a good price, then fit a smaller rear bar as you suggest.

Just depends on how you drive your car, and what you want out of it.

Edited 10 January, 201313 yr by Oet

Yes but no arb to driveshaft contact which is the most important thing

If the neuspeed is junk on it i'll sell it to some suspension guru for 3 times my purchase price

Just thought the pics would be handy as after searching there seems a lot of disagreement on the vrs arb and bush sizes

The op can make a statement about vrs models benefitting from extra bolstering on the rear, as he owns one, and understands how understeer/oversteer works, and that vrs models are setup to understeer more than oversteer to help drivers correct the car should something go wrong, understeer is much easier than oversteer to deal with (for the average driver anyway). Its widely recognised that fitting a rear arb to the vrs is one of the main big mods that this car can benefit from greatly!

If you or the OP had a proper understanding of the operation of an anti-roll bar and it's influence on handling and interaction with other components you wouldn't have written that post.

I used to own a Polo, didn't make me Jari-Matti Latvala.

Bar thickness can also be discussed, as i have fitted at some point or other most of the bars out there (so have several others on here), so can compare different bars from personal experience, especially the vag bars versus the aftermarket bars out there. Of course you are right in a sense, thicker bars can be exponetially more rigid than a bar a mm thinnerfor example. For the purpose of the conversation however, a perfect match to the 23mm r32 front arb, is the 25mm rear eibach or neuspeed bar. Equally a 21mm front vag bar, is not a good match to a 28mm rear upgrade bar...a better choice to match the front would be the 25mm rear eibach or neuspeed bar or the 24mm whiteline bar in this instance.

I am not 'right in a sense', I am just right.

You cannot compare ARB's based on diameter unless they are made from identical materials, go through an identical heat treatment and have identical bend/blade configurations.

I will bow to your personal knowledge of specific bar comparison as I don't have that experience but without qualifying which bars you are referring to your comments could be very costly and misleading.

/\ woah! no need to point the finger at the OP

We are all friends here are we not?

I may not know much about suspension etc. but i could wire a factory up no problem

People are good at different things you see. Im just an enthusiast who likes learning new things and will 'have a go'

Really? What is the point?

From my experience Oet's advice and opinions have been spot on. The OP is talking about these cars, which have a few different arb set ups available. The 28mm Neuspeed bar is the hardest off the shelf one. in general the thicker the bars for these cars the stiffer they are. He never said rule applied to all bars on all cars.

In the kindest way possible, go give out about peoples advice somewhere else.

Sooo back on track

Since my octy arb uses what i would assume is 17mm bushes from factory the only replacement bushes i can find are super pro 19mm

Would these work?

If you or the OP had a proper understanding of the operation of an anti-roll bar and it's influence on handling and interaction with other components you wouldn't have written that post.

I used to own a Polo, didn't make me Jari-Matti Latvala.

I am not 'right in a sense', I am just right.

You cannot compare ARB's based on diameter unless they are made from identical materials, go through an identical heat treatment and have identical bend/blade configurations.

I will bow to your personal knowledge of specific bar comparison as I don't have that experience but without qualifying which bars you are referring to your comments could be very costly and misleading.

Actually the arb has 2 main functions, to control the lean of the body and to tune the balance of understeer and oversteer. So i do understand, i also understand how this has an effect on turn in for example or on camber and the need to tune those accordingly on modified cars. This thread isn't a lesson about that though, its about what front arb to fit with 28mm rear neuspeed arb.

So that in mind my advice as you can see, is not to fit a thick rear arb to the car in question, without uprating the front, as it will promote dangerous handling to the car (ie lift off oversteer) Or if he wants to fit a thick rear bar, uprate the front too to help with the balance. Not really costly or misleading..

I haven't and am not getting involved in a conversation about the different process of bar thickness manufacture and how different sizes can be more or less rigid depending on how they are made, or whether to call them arbs or sway bars.. But yes you are right about the technicality of bar thicknesses. However for the point of this conversation, and how different bars work on these cars specifically (thats the point of this thread after all!) i am posting from personal experience having owned a number of vrs cars all being modified by me with lots of different setups. Also on the site the general concencus amongst those on here who have also fitted different arbs to modded cars is the same, not to fit too thick a rear arb, without sorting the front out too! We have discussed the size of bars in relation again to the vrs...

Out of interest, whats your experience as clearly you know something about anti roll bars?