Just won a Neuspeed RARB

[Oet]

i havent fitted superpro to a vrs bar, as i uprated at that point, but my understanding is if sleeve is broken or missing, fit the 19mm bushes straight to the 19mm bar, however check they fit ok, as some say 17mm without sleeve, and some say 19mm bush or even 21mm if you have the sleeves...

make sure you use some specific lube or copper grease to stop them creaking when you fit.

Edited 10 January, 2013 by Oet

[Oet]

Yes but no arb to driveshaft contact which is the most important thing

If the neuspeed is junk on it i'll sell it to some suspension guru for 3 times my purchase price

na..we all know what you paid;>

[Guest BigJase88]

You'll forget in a few months

Got loads of copper grease got a fetish with the stuff!

So 19mm arb bushes will be good

[michael1]

na..we all know what you paid;>

goes back to edit first post now! Hehe

[demonufo]

This is just wrong, an anti-roll bar and a sway bar are identical items, Europeans tend to use the term anti-roll bar and our American cousins call them sway bars.

Also you can't make blanket statements like 'Every vRS would benefit from a little extra bolstering on the rear' without a full understanding of suspension tuning.

Okay buttplug, have it your way, but what I was referring to was standard vRS'. In the case of which I fully stand by my original statement. As stock, even brand new, the handling is quite frankly, a load of turd, and needs to lose some of the rear grip.

As for anti-roll and rear sway being the same thing, the problem is not the body roll, which an anti roll bar is there to correct. The problem is the flexibility of the rear axle, and the hubs bending inwards trying to meet each other, rather than the beam flexing. Which is exactly what the issue with Octy's in particular suffer, NOT body roll (body roll is just a secondary motion caused BY too much rear grip). Regardless of whether or not they are the same item, DOES NOT affect the point I was making that we use the incorrect terminology.

[Oet]

lol we won't forget Jase:>

lmao@demonufo

Edited 10 January, 2013 by Oet

[demonufo]

You cannot compare ARB's based on diameter unless they are made from identical materials, go through an identical heat treatment and have identical bend/blade configurations.

I will bow to your personal knowledge of specific bar comparison as I don't have that experience but without qualifying which bars you are referring to your comments could be very costly and misleading.

Well perhaps you should do a little digging. Since many have already tried Neuspeed bars with vRS front bars on a vRS, on a Leon which doesn't not suffer understeer even remotely like the Octavia does, in part due to having less rear overhang and weight, is going to be much worse than an Octy on the same setup. ESPECIALLY a Leon running suspension designed for the heavier Octavia.

It's all good and well trying to prove your superior knowledge, but try to have a little respect in that some other people, perish the thought, might actually even begin to know what the heck they're actually on about!

[Guest BigJase88]

Sounds like its going to be fun

Rwd fwd leon

If any1 wants to take it off my hands ill do a briskoda deal of £150 delivered to your door! Sharings caring and all that

[Bowders1]

Lofty how did you link a tt arb to you joms? I didn't think they had the arb drop link mount?

Not sure he has a genuine TT ARB fitted as they are the same hook up as the VRS and R32 / LCR.

I suspect the ARB thickness may be the same as a early TT or VRS which think was confirmed lower down the thread.

As the ARB is still the hooped one on his TDi this is not a TT set up.

So would just putting a TT standard one on or S3 or similar improve the standard handling until funds allowed for uprated?

If you refer to the FARB yes, these are typically 21mm on later TT's with some 23mm and S3 is 23mm same as R32 bar and are a straight swap over the VRS bar. but do not fit if you have not fitted a RARB.

If you refer to RARB then these are as stated aftermarket except the S3 which has external RARB as standard but will not fit our 2WD cars.

I'm assuming whiteline have changed the design, as my Whiteline 24mm adjustable arb, mounts pretty much the same as the Neuspeed one does, with 2 mini drop links going direct to the bottom shock bolt, rather than to 2 little blocks.

Yes they have changed , they used to use box sections for the rear the rear shock mounts but now use similar to the Neuspeed. The Neuspeed has better rear beam hook up points though.

It was the crappy U bolt clamps I was referring to. Pathetic rubbish, imo. A really naff solution, risking damage to the beam. Especially if some numpty overtightens it.

Yes these are not as good but do a good job and have plates that are flat to the beam with bushes so not really forcing the beam to bend. Mine did a good job for a few years till I upgraded.

You'll forget in a few months

Got loads of copper grease got a fetish with the stuff!

So 19mm arb bushes will be good

Yes 19mm if you still have the sleeves fitted but if not 17mm bushes.

You cannot compare ARB's by diameter, even OE bars can be made from different materials making their torsional rigidity disproportional to their diameter.

This is just wrong, an anti-roll bar and a sway bar are identical items, Europeans tend to use the term anti-roll bar and our American cousins call them sway bars.

Also you can't make blanket statements like 'Every vRS would benefit from a little extra bolstering on the rear' without a full understanding of suspension tuning.

Firstly you clearly do not know the VRS very well like most of use do buddy....So we are talking from experience of the products that can be fitted to the VRS and work. Forget other metals that someone may be able to turn on a lathe.....We are talking off the shelf parts for the VRS.

There are very few product of choice for the VRS and I have tested most of them like OET has, I can quote from experience in the handling of these cars.

Yes I do not know much about various metal strengths based of type of metal used , length of metal , where the bends are etc, But as there is no massive choice to test, few companies at most and I have tested most it not all of them consider that enough knowledge for me.

Autotech , Neuspeed, Whiteline etc.

Secondly we all know Sway Bar means Anti Roll Bar so what is the point?

The fact is, these cars do not have a rear external ARB and need one certainly if you start modding the suspension and handling .

It is also a fact that even without suspension tuning and modding a external RARB like Whiteline makes a std car so much better.

We don't make comments for the sake of it, but use our knowledge of the cars and what works well and what don't..... .

Edited 10 January, 2013 by Bowders1

[Guest BigJase88]

But there isnt a 17mm bush available :(

Sniffles

[Golden]

Far from trying to embarrass anyone I am actually trying to help the vast majority of readers with only an enthusiasts level of suspension knowledge.

Too often I have spoken to people who have spent large amounts of time and money modifying a car based on other peoples suggestions only to be disappointed or at least frustrated with the results.

When people make blanket statements about specific components or models it shows a lack of basic understanding of vehicle suspension and dynamics.

A suspension system is just like an engine, it's a sum of its parts, not an individual component.

In the same way you wouldn't bolt together a random turbo, head and exhaust and expect it to work to it's best potential, neither can you do this with suspension.

Things that effect how effective or ineffective an ARB is depends on so many things, tyre width and profile, bushing, spring rate, damper rate, ride height, dynamic and static camber, body rigidity and body configuration. That's just off the top of my head, change any one of these factors and you will alter the results.

If you are going to suggest someone spend their time and money based on your opinion then you should be specific about the details, otherwise they could end up at best out of pocket and disappointed, at worst with a dangerous car.

[Oet]

When people make blanket statements about specific components or models it shows a lack of basic understanding of vehicle suspension and dynamics.

Things that effect how effective or ineffective an ARB is depends on so many things, tyre width and profile, bushing, spring rate, damper rate, ride height, dynamic and static camber, body rigidity and body configuration. That's just off the top of my head, change any one of these factors and you will alter the results.

If you are going to suggest someone spend their time and money based on your opinion then you should be specific about the details, otherwise they could end up at best out of pocket and disappointed, at worst with a dangerous car.

Your points are moot, you just seem to want to make a point for the sake of it...without any evidence of practical application (certainly with the vrs) that i can tell?

The op asked what arb is a tried and tested/recommended/good match to go with a 28mm rear arb, we suggested (i) a 23mm front, due to increased chance of lift off oversteer with a vrs front arb. This has been tried and tested by me (amongst others) and as a suggestion fitting a thicker front to help dial out the oversteer. This is less dangerous than than a overly thick rear arb on its own.

OF course all those other points contribute to the handling characteristics of the car including caster and its role with camber too..however again thats not what this post is about. Ultimately the arb reduces changes lean/and adjust the handling balance between understeer and oversteer...all other points that you make although are related are just a variable/influencing factor!

You are the one making blanket statements, we have been specific, as already suggested to you, talking about the few vag upgrades and aftermarket upgrades that are available to us, and that have been tested by us....

Still welcome to the forum

[Silver Bullet]

Interesting thread as i am considering upgrading to a 28mm Neuspeed from my 21mm Whiteline.

Regarding the measurments of the front arb, I checked mine and it is indeed a dia 19mm (05' model).

Couple of years ago fitted Superpro 19mm bushes (SPF 2593-19K) to it with lashings of copper grease, it seems to work ok with no clanking or banging about.

Using "Bowders" as a role model I think I will have to do the R32 farb mod as well to keep the front/rear balance right.

[Guest BigJase88]

Interesting thread as i am considering upgrading to a 28mm Neuspeed from my 21mm Whiteline.

Regarding the measurments of the front arb, I checked mine and it is indeed a dia 19mm (05' model).

Couple of years ago fitted Superpro 19mm bushes (SPF 2593-19K) to it with lashings of copper grease, it seems to work ok with no clanking or banging about.

Using "Bowders" as a role model I think I will have to do the R32 farb mod as well to keep the front/rear balance right.

Did you have an unsleeved arb like me?

[STSKODA]

But there isnt a 17mm bush available :(

Sniffles

I bought some not too long ago - oe part number is 1J0 411 314 S

plenty of options available, don't bother giving a vag garage a call though they want a bloomin fortune for them

[Golden]

Your points are moot, you just seem to want to make a point for the sake of it...without any evidence of practical application (certainly with the vrs) that i can tell?

The op asked what arb is a tried and tested/recommended/good match to go with a 28mm rear arb, we suggested (i) a 23mm front, due to increased chance of lift off oversteer with a vrs front arb. This has been tried and tested by me (amongst others) and as a suggestion fitting a thicker front to help dial out the oversteer. This is less dangerous than than a overly thick rear arb on its own.

Looks good!

Will i kill myself by going backwards into a tree with it?

I also have kw coilovers fitted

Need an eibach arb on the front also as my drive shaft hits my stock farb (leon mk1 tdi)

The fact that the OP already has coilovers makes a generic suggestion dubious from the outset.

If the OP has the coilovers at a reasonable ride height he's already reduced the body roll with the increased spring rates. Also if he's added a certain degree of rake to the car then this will influence the roll couple distribution.

If he's lowered the car massively, has the camber been corrected to suit, what is the dynamic camber arc at his given ride height.

Any of these factors means that offering a generic suggestion may not work with his setup.

I understand that you are offering your experience to be helpful but if you don't give more detail or qualify your answer then any forum reader runs the risk of buying and fitting an inappropriate part.

[demonufo]

If any1 wants to take it off my hands ill do a briskoda deal of £150 delivered to your door! Sharings caring and all that

Nah man, don't give up on it. Just use it as a good excuse to get an R32 FARB (23mm) to go with it. If you've already got the vRS droplinks you just need the arb and correct bushes. It will be truly awesome, and handle more than the engine will be able to throw at it.

[Guest BigJase88]

Im lowered sensibly

Around 40-50mm

The front also has 12mm spacers

And the rear has 15mm spacers

Coilovers are decent ones being kw v1's

[demonufo]

The fact that the OP already has coilovers makes a generic suggestion dubious from the outset.

If the OP has the coilovers at a reasonable ride height he's already reduced the body roll with the increased spring rates. Also if he's added a certain degree of rake to the car then this will influence the roll couple distribution.

If he's lowered the car massively, has the camber been corrected to suit, what is the dynamic camber arc at his given ride height.

Any of these factors means that offering a generic suggestion may not work with his setup.

I understand that you are offering your experience to be helpful but if you don't give more detail or qualify your answer then any forum reader runs the risk of buying and fitting an inappropriate part.

I suppose you actually think that any of the suggestions have been made by people who haven't used coilovers and lowered their cars before then...

Keep digging... you'll hit water eventually...

[Oet]

The fact that the OP already has coilovers makes a generic suggestion dubious from the outset.

If the OP has the coilovers at a reasonable ride height he's already reduced the body roll with the increased spring rates. Also if he's added a certain degree of rake to the car then this will influence the roll couple distribution.

If he's lowered the car massively, has the camber been corrected to suit, what is the dynamic camber arc at his given ride height.

Any of these factors means that offering a generic suggestion may not work with his setup.

I understand that you are offering your experience to be helpful but if you don't give more detail or qualify your answer then any forum reader runs the risk of buying and fitting an inappropriate part.

I know the op has coilovers, i have read his posts before..doesn't change the fact a 28mm rear arb with a stock front vrs arb is not the best match for the VRS, it will just encourage oversteer...fact! (Irrespective of suspension setup or camber or caster setup).

You seem to be disagreeing with this, so are you suggesting its a good idea to run a 28mm rear bar with a 19mm front stock bar?

My suggestions (as other posters like bowders and demoufo are based on actual practical application) in that we have run numerous supsension setups (inc caster and camber adjustment) with stock and uprated suspension, so do have some collective hands on experience. Again..whats your practical experience of fitting stock and uprated vag/aftermarket anti roll bars to the VRS or the VAG platform in general as you seem to post a lot of technical information without any actual evidence of your knowledge or ability? I

Forgive us for thinking you might just be copy and pasting from the internet..as you don't have any other posts on here to backup your standing as an enthusiast so to speak...we on the other hand do.

I think they call it trolling don't they?

[Oet]

[Silver Bullet]

Did you have an unsleeved arb like me?

Yes exactly the same as yours with those larger diameter shoulders to reduce sideways movement.

I must get a digital vernier like yours as mine has the engraved scales, not so easy to read with advancing years lol.

[Oet]

Yes exactly the same as yours with those larger diameter shoulders to reduce sideways movement.

I must get a digital vernier like yours as mine has the engraved scales, not so easy to read with advancing years lol.

they are cheap on ebay the digital ones

[Silver Bullet]

Yes,

Ive seen a similar one advertised by an engineering company for about £25 notes.

[Bowders1]

Interesting thread as i am considering upgrading to a 28mm Neuspeed from my 21mm Whiteline.

Regarding the measurments of the front arb, I checked mine and it is indeed a dia 19mm (05' model).

Couple of years ago fitted Superpro 19mm bushes (SPF 2593-19K) to it with lashings of copper grease, it seems to work ok with no clanking or banging about.

Using "Bowders" as a role model I think I will have to do the R32 farb mod as well to keep the front/rear balance right.

Good Idea buddy

General typical rule on these cars to get good balance is:

a. FARB = 19mm RARB = 22mm, (like Whiteline)

b. FARB = 21mm RARB = 24mm (like Whiteline) 25mm (like Neuspeed)

c. FARB = 23mm RARB = 28mm, like Neuspeed

If keeping car std suspension then a 22mm RARB Whiteline offers a very good tune up to handing

If upgrading car to coillovers may want to upgrade to option b.

If going with coilovers and replacing suspension bushes b and c would be good.

If going full hog like replacing for TT / R32 / LCR cast wishbones and Hubs for something like spirited driving or the occasional track day then option c.

I went one step further and put castor bushes in my TT cast wishbones and added a S3 / R32 steering rack that give less turns lock to lock.

The depends of what you want to get from your car and was a journey of change and combinations and conditions for me.

Edited 10 January, 2013 by Bowders1