Whilst collecting my Yeti from the latest episode of warranty work yesterday, I noticed boxes of new springs on the parts department table at my local Skoda dealer. "Cars with broken springs?" said I, "Yes", said the man - "another one"! What I did notice was that the boxes bore the branding of some German (I think) manufacturer, with Skoda sticky labels part obscuring the name. And I'm pretty sure they had come in as part of that morning's delivery of parts from Skoda.

Interesting!

It is strange this....when i brought my first yeti everyone was complaining about rusty springs so i got an old can of waxoil and sprayed all of them...wonder if this helped? Then again i doubt rust had too much to do with it in such a short time. Even my material science lecturer at Pontypridd would've told me that :-)

JeZ

I think you'll find it's not the coils of the springs going rusty that's the problem, it's the way they are cropped and then seated in the cups at top & bottom; here they suffer from uneven stresses as the end of the spring bears against an indentation in the cup. Springs used to be chamfered at the ends and the last coil was "closed" up so they seated flat in the cups, and rarely failed.

I think you'll find it's not the coils of the springs going rusty that's the problem, it's the way they are cropped and then seated in the cups at top & bottom; here they suffer from uneven stresses as the end of the spring bears against an indentation in the cup. Springs used to be chamfered at the ends and the last coil was "closed" up so they seated flat in the cups, and rarely failed.

Yeah that would make sense..you would've thought they'd of used ones that are a different design bearing in mind the vehicle they are fitted in. Bet they've changed the design now :-)

JeZ

Yeah that would make sense..you would've thought they'd of used ones that are a different design bearing in mind the vehicle they are fitted in. Bet they've changed the design now :-)

JeZ

I bet they haven't !!

This design is now standard throughout most of the automotive industry, as the springs are so much cheaper to make this way. Why should they worry about springs failing, as long as they do so after the warranty has expired? Once out of warranty, it's not costing the car manufacturer anything when they need to be replaced.

Mind you, they'll soon change the design if/when there have been fatalities attributable to a spring braking & puncturing a tyre.

Edited 27 January, 201313 yr by speedsport

This type of spring failure isn't common, but the solid end and shaped seat design is. My money is on a problem batch or even supplier of springs. It may be a very large batch.

+1

The design will have been durability rested beyond what you would reasonably expect to encounter in normal use. Scrap content of the raw steel is irrelevant, my guess is either the wrong grade, or incorrect processing of the steel bar is the cause, ie out of spec parts

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

This type of spring failure isn't common, but the solid end and shaped seat design is. My money is on a problem batch or even supplier of springs. It may be a very large batch.

I beg to differ.

Talk to any MOT tester, and the incidence of coil spring failures has increased massively over the last 8 years or so. Bear in mind that the problem is spread across most brands, not just VAG. At one time Ford appeared to be immune, but there are failures there too these days.

So, I'm afraid it looks as though it's something that's here to stay, or at least until the "Closed final coil" type of spring return to mass-market cars.

Edited 28 January, 201313 yr by speedsport

Agree with John, front coil spring failure is surprisingly common. Typically Mondeos, Picassos, various Vauxhalls and some BMW's according to my local garage.

Speedsport. Those failures are not happening here because those car brands are not in abundance here. That spring seat design has been around for much more than 8 years. I had a 98 Nissan (and still have 2000 MY nissan) which ran essentially the same design.

No failures.

It is a localised problem. I'd look for a common spring manufacturer or steel batch. Something is out of spec. The engineers who design these details test stress and fatigue from the start. But a design will only hold up if the materials meet the expected specs.

Do you have detailed stress and material analysis to back-up your assertation that these failures are here to stay until the design is changed?

Put simply, I call BS on your theory.

I would be inclined to look for an explanation other than materials-too many makes of vehicle seem to be involved and for too long.If any of the big makers were to think there was a materials problem they would by now have made their suppliers change.

I think the answer may be in the relatively modern profusion of speed humps-some of which cannot be taken smoothly at any speed.

Kiwibacon,

If this is a localised problem, why is it happening to the list of cars I named, to which I can now add, Corsa, Clio, and Micra. All reported to me by my local garage this evening (over a pint)

And I think you last sentence totally unwarranted!

As I posted up above Graham

I'd look for a common spring manufacturer or steel batch. Something is out of spec.

Speedhumps aren't new. Springs are designed to work to their maximum deflection a million or so times. One of the larger concerns with fatigue design is the yield stress of the material. If the material yeilds early, then it's fatigue life shortens dramatically.

Previous generation Fiesta had a problem with durability of the front springs in the early models, but this was a design issue, not a manufacturing defect. Not aware of any other model that had such a specific market problems, not that that means there haven't been.

I'm not contributing further to this topic. Clearly my opinion and that of my several independent contacts in the motor trade are of no value.

"Dont confuse me with facts 'cos my mind is made up" springs to mind here!!

I'm out too, seem to recollect this happened last time we benefited from antipodean assistance.

If you want to discuss failures with an engineer, you'd better bring some logic.

It ain't speed-humps.

It ain't the design of the spring or seat because that is well proven.

Kiwbacon, why do you have to be so aggressive and patronising?

I get the impression that you are a learned person, and can probably offer skilled and useful advice to us, but your attitude prevents that.

Most of your postings, here and elsewhere, give the same impression, a man of knowledge but unable to communicate it in a friendly way that would get it more noticed.

I assume that Kiwiland is New Zealand? If so let me reassure everyone that this attitude is not typical of New Zealanders, I have Kiwi friends and they don't have this problem.

Fred

I don't think this is anything new. I well remember trading in a Mk 1 Golf with 2 broken front springs and hoping the salesman wouldn't notice- in a moment of madness or panic I did a deal for a Ford Orion - yes even we Yeti owners have been known to make bad decisions !.

I thought this made an interesting read ....

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/coil-springs-breaking.html

graham

It isn't anything new or specific to one make, and to suggest commonality in supply is frankly ridiculous!

Kiwbacon' date=' why do you have to be so aggressive and patronising?

I get the impression that you are a learned person, and can probably offer skilled and useful advice to us, but your attitude prevents that.

Most of your postings, here and elsewhere, give the same impression, a man of knowledge but unable to communicate it in a friendly way that would get it more noticed.

I assume that Kiwiland is New Zealand? If so let me reassure everyone that this attitude is not typical of New Zealanders, I have Kiwi friends and they don't have this problem.

Fred[/quote']

Well Fred it doesn't really matter what I say, Graham will always disagree and always be right. No-one likes being told the evidence doesn't fit their theory, but it's just one of the services I can freely provide.

How would you like the idea of a spring seat design common since the early 90's (possibly late 80's) suddenly causing problems in 2012?

Diverting slightly from the subject, I notice that a lot of people seem to drive regardless of the road surface.

I tend to drive with a safe distance from the car in front, which enables me to unobtrusively "sway" to miss potholes, manhole covers, other obstacles etc without taking my eye off the ball. Perhaps I've conditioned myself to drive in a defensive way over the years to avoid potential probelms?

Some people I see on a daily basis seem to "crash" into every visible defect on the road without flinching, some even damaging their cars on speed humps etc.

I guess it must date back from when I was grateful for a heater and heated rear window - but who knows

Graham will always disagree and always be right. No-one likes being told the evidence doesn't fit their theory, but it's just one of the services I can freely provide.

I will disagree when suggesting that commonality of supply over cars made by at lmore than 4 different manufacturers in 3 different countries on 2 continents is stated. That is obviously ridiculous.

Whilst this problem may not be prevelant in New Zeland it is over here, as has been proved by the articles pointed out and by experience of other members here.

as others have said, I'm out of here.

Diverting slightly from the subject, I notice that a lot of people seem to drive regardless of the road surface.

I tend to drive with a safe distance from the car in front, which enables me to unobtrusively "sway" to miss potholes, manhole covers, other obstacles etc without taking my eye off the ball. Perhaps I've conditioned myself to drive in a defensive way over the years to avoid potential probelms?

Some people I see on a daily basis seem to "crash" into every visible defect on the road without flinching, some even damaging their cars on speed humps etc.

I guess it must date back from when I was grateful for a heater and heated rear window - but who knows

I too drive this way, I put it down to being a motorcyclist for 9 yrs before getting a drivers license, I think it makes you more cautious and aware. After all if your not paying attention on a bike the consequences are much greater on 2 wheels.

I'm just glad it's something I took with me onto 4 wheels.