1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[snorbans]

Hi snorbans,

 

I just read your post again (properly this time) and wonder if you would clarify who offered the suggestion as to what the fault was.

 

Am I correct in assuming it was a chain tensioner failure?

 

thanks

Hi Nigeld,

 

I made the suggestion of the timing chain tensioner as the possible cause, having seen this thread.  The dealer removed the engine and stripped it to find the cause.  I'm not sure how easy it is to prove it was the tensioner, however probably because there is no other obvious cause it was reported back to SUK.  SUK then asked the dealer for further details, as one might reasonably expect them to do.  Once satisfied SUK approved the replacement engine.

 

I'm not sure that they would accept so readily the view of an independent dealer - but who knows?  There is now sufficient evidence of a systematic failure so SUK dealers should know what to look for, especially with a helpful suggestion.

 

Hope this helps.

[NIGELD]

Very helpful, thanks for the clarification and additional info.

[Metblackrat]

If a NEW engine is fitted and the old one is destroyed, the new engine can be stamped with the same engine number and therefore no paperwork with the DVLA is needed.

[Chris B]

Snorbans, am I right in thinking that Citygate was once Palmers, I was curious how SOGA would play out when the dealership changes. Glad you had a good result.

[m0bov]

Did you pursue the suplying dealer? Was that dealer your "local" anyway?

[NIGELD]

Hi m0bov,

 

Local dealer, supplying dealer and servicing dealer are all the same and I have not pursued them yet.

 

In fairness they have offered a FOC diagnosis and assured me they will act in my best interests but I am still unsure whether I can trust them.

 

They do not yet have the vehicle and because of their ignorance of the TPI and their refusal to take any notice of it since it does not show up under my VIN I am nervous that if I give them the vehicle they will not behave properly in looking at the tensioner.  They will not agree to carrying out the 'push back' test.

 

They have now said that if I do not let them have the vehicle and do it their way they will 'consider the matter closed'

 

I wonder whether they are under pressure from SUK or VAG?

 

What is so difficult about agreeing to examine the tensioner and carry out the push-back test in the TPI as a first step in the investigation?

 

Funny thing is, we were about to order the new vRS and trade this one in, which we probably still will do in the end, as we have had no other complaints in 13 years of vRS ownership. (Also wife has Golf V5, no.1 son has Audi A3, no.2 son has SEAT FR, I do also have a couple of old Lotus so I am not completely daft  )

 

Will continue to post in case this helps others that it seems will experience a similar catastrophe in the future. 

[snorbans]

Snorbans, am I right in thinking that Citygate was once Palmers, I was curious how SOGA would play out when the dealership changes. Glad you had a good result.

I bought the car via Drive the Deal which used Marlborough Skoda, Isleworth to source it.  As the car was out of warranty and Marlborough are some way away I contacted SUK who suggested the nearest dealer - Citygate.  As I understand the SUK warranty and SOGA, once out of warranty, recourse lies with SUK and not the dealer, so the dealer is immaterial.  SOGA applies up to six years from purchase so, although not the same as a warranty and even out of the warranty warranty period, if the product is not of satisfactory quality or is not fit for purpose you have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement.  Note, this does not extend to fair wear and tear.  Since the car had been serviced regularly, according to SUK warranty requirements, and the timing chain was not due to be examined until the 40k service SUK could not argue FWT. 

 

BTW, I don't believe Citygate have anything to do with Palmers, thank heaven.  I tried Palmers once, about the feathered tyres, but they were so hopeless I never returned.  It was no surprise that they lost the Skoda dealership.  Citygate were excellent - as they should be, for this was a large workshop job for them.

[DGW]

Is there anyone out there who can contribute information into the 'pot'

 

 

 

Have you seen the Supurb 1.8TSI oil consumption thread including the post below?

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/261643-18-tsi-excessive-oil-consumption/?p=3219421

[DanSej6]

Since the car had been serviced regularly, according to SUK warranty requirements, and the timing chain was not due to be examined until the 40k service SUK could not argue FWT. 

 

 

Timing chains aren't examined at all on any service. They're supposed to be a fitted for life part. Belts on the earlier vRS petrol model (BWA engine) are to be checked at 4years or 60k and then every service after, but the chain on the CCZA engine does not need to be checked.

[NIGELD]

Thanks DGW.

 

Yes, I have forwarded a couple of links similar to this to the dealer which give extracts of the TPI but because the dealer has not seen it on the ELSA for themselves it appears to them that, it either does not exist or does not relate to my engine a CCZA.  

 

They will only search under my VIN not under the CCZA general TPI list.  It is as if someone does not want the dealers to find it!

 

Need a dealer who can display initiative or think a little out of the box as opposed to ..........."computer says.................."

[DanSej6]

Just a random thought...Maybe the TPI doesn't apply to vehicles made after a certain date hence why it supposedly doesn't show up when they supposedly search for it, BUT your engine could have been made during the affected dates. So old engine affected, but vehicle shows as not affected?

 

I've seen it before where an engine has been made a good month or two (or more) before the vehicle was "made".

Another thing, dealership maybe putting in the whole TPI number with the /5 at the end too, sometimes it's better to search for the first 5 or 6 numbers and then scroll through. If they put the /5 at the end and VWAG have updated it (would change to /6) it won't show up at all, which is handy.

[KR MAN]

Would it be possible to have this thread 'Pinned'? I'm pretty sure there's a few people on here who hope they never need to use the excellent info thats in the thread, but should they need to use it, would hate not to be able to find it.

 

I know there's the 'Search' function but pinning it will make life a lot easier for people who'll find themselves in a pretty stressful situation through no fault of their own.

[NIGELD]

Hi DanSej6,

 

Good thoughts which I need to try and research.

 

Interestingly, according to Skoda Customer Service, they cannot search using a TPI number and see what vehicles (or vehicle/engine types) turn up, they can only search with a VIN and see what TPIs turn up!

 

Either a poor database design or possibly a lack of enthusiasm to really look using every avenue.

 

Thanks for the interest.

[RGKTSi]

I feel very sorry for those owners which have had issues and potentially large repair bills on their 2.0 TSi engines.  I am geting more concerned now for my wifes 1.8TSi engine.  The car was registered in Dec 2009 and was a factory order so can only assume the engine was built not that long before.   

 

The car has regular oil changes using long life oil.

 

So my questions are to those with more knowledge than me.

1. Carry on driving the car doing my regular oil changes and don't worry about it.
2. Pay someone, dealer, indi to change the timing chain tensioner to the latest version. 

I know there haven't been so many issues with the 1.8TSi engine but there have been a few. 

 

Would changing the tensioner for the cost comparison to a new engine be the sensible option? 

 

Thanks to all.

[ChilledBud]

Having had the car a couple of weeks and coming from a quiet na engine I'm a little concerned about a couple of noises. This video being the most concerning.

The noise is always there at idle, even after driving for miles. It's quiet when the throttle is used.

[ChilledBud]

Fired her up this evening after a day of not using her, and the sound is there from startup and very noticeable. Engine wont rev more than 4k, but that might be normal for a cold engine?

Going to head towards Skoda tomorrow I think, with a bit of luck a mechanic might gave a quick listen and not have too book her in and get an hours charge.

[Billbow]

ChilledBud- my car will only rev to 4k when stationary (as I found out at the weekend when trying to listen for a noise). Assumed this is normal ? I also have a 'grasshopper/cricket sound at idle. Been like it virtually from new (4 years) and Skoda service not concerned. I am however nervous about this timing chain issue but just have to keep my fingers crossed.

Edited 8 October, 2013 by Billbow

[piv34uk]

Gutted to say my wife tried to go to work this morning, after starting the car (2.0tsi 60 plate) she said it was misfiring badly...I could do nothing as I was at work, came home to code read and found multiple misfire and timing out of adjustment. Made a call to mate who is the Vag/Rac recovery tech and he confirmed my worse fears of possible engine damage. Car will be enroute to Aylesbury tomorrow as its not out of warranty till the end of November and only covered 38k

 

Will keep you all informed, Toyota techie myself working for one of the biggest dealer networks in the UK so if they try to blag me they will be in for a long fight

 

Phil

[NIGELD]

Hi piv34uk,

 

so sorry to hear of your (and your wifes) situation it is truly a horrible feeling.  

 

Your position in the motor industry may well help many others who will suffer this in the future.  

 

If you can locate an official copy of TPI 2024485/5 related to the CCZA engine it would be very useful for all.

 

I have had to give in and send mine to the dealer today and trust that they will examine the vehicle properly and give an honest report as to cause of failure.

 

Will post results as I get them.

 

Hope all goes smoothly for you.

[DGW]

Sorry to hear that, Phil. :(

Your car is just one month older than my 1.8TSI and, by my reckoning, should have the first revision of the timing chain tensioner fitted. I have provisionally added your car to the list at the start of this thread.

[neil_f]

Gutted to say my wife tried to go to work this morning, after starting the car (2.0tsi 60 plate) she said it was misfiring badly...I could do nothing as I was at work, came home to code read and found multiple misfire and timing out of adjustment. Made a call to mate who is the Vag/Rac recovery tech and he confirmed my worse fears of possible engine damage. Car will be enroute to Aylesbury tomorrow as its not out of warranty till the end of November and only covered 38k

Will keep you all informed, Toyota techie myself working for one of the biggest dealer networks in the UK so if they try to blag me they will be in for a long fight

Phil

I've got a 60 plate and warranty is out at the end of November as well. This is the first failure I've heard of on this year of car....most of them seem to have been the early editions of this engine ie 2009 models

[DGW]

I've got a 60 plate and warranty is out at the end of November as well. This is the first failure I've heard of on this year of car....most of them seem to have been the early editions of this engine ie 2009 models

There are two 2012 cars in the list at the start of this thread. :(

[a_Duncan]

Another failure 2.0 TSI Engine 2009............Broken inlet valve spring discovered after engine misfire which also burned out the inlet manifold which had to be replaced. A big job, removal of the head also chain and tensioners replaced as this had been rubbing against the covers,Skoda made a contribution towards the cost.... not impressed overall 

[DGW]

Could you please post the month of registration and mileage please so that I can include that in the brief details of this failure which I have now added to my first post.

[a_Duncan]

Could you please post the month of registration and mileage please so that I can include that in the brief details of this failure which I have now added to my first post.

April 2009   59K   Broken Inlet valve spring  CCZA Engine