1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[swany]

Well thats the car dropped off at dealership, should have seen the sales rep's face when i reversed my car off the trailer nearly hidden by a large cloud of blue smoke as he was showing a couple of potential customers a new octavia

[juke99]

Thanks mate.

The official technical bulletin over here indicates that the parts will only be changed by Skoda India if there is a failure of its purpose of function.

there are various cases of Superb engine changes done for the same reason.

it even has a point of Engine change under goodwill warranty if the engine is seized.

[swany]

Well thats the car dropped off at dealership, should have seen the sales rep's face when i reversed my car off the trailer nearly hidden by a large cloud of blue smoke as he was showing a couple of potential customers a new octavia

well got the car back yesterday, turned out to be faulty injectors and a faulty coil pack. Luckily Skoda UK picked up 75% of parts and labour cost as it finished at just over  £1700

[Yeti_Man]

well got the car back yesterday, turned out to be faulty injectors and a faulty coil pack. Luckily Skoda UK picked up 75% of parts and labour cost as it finished at just over  £1700

£1700 for injectors and a single coil pack?!

[RustyBucket]

What do you guys think of this Macgyver-like solution of using the hole in the cover:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41169&d=1402505634

 

to put a spacer around the tensioner like this:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41171&d=1402505634

 

It would basically do (somewhat simplified) what the revised tensioner does; keep the piston from retracting back when the engine isn't running... 

[swany]

£1700 for injectors and a single coil pack?!

yeah i thought it was expensive too. alot of it was labour at 75 quid a hour plus i got them to stick an endiscope down the plug holes to check the rings and bores for damage after the amount of fuel that was passed into the exhaust. a bit of peace of mind on my part

[JB-)]

What do you guys think of this Macgyver-like solution of using the hole in the cover:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41169&d=1402505634

 

to put a spacer around the tensioner like this:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41171&d=1402505634

 

It would basically do (somewhat simplified) what the revised tensioner does; keep the piston from retracting back when the engine isn't running... 

 

It wouldn't stop the tensioner from retracting because it could just slide out of the sleeve, then the sleeve would drop in to the timing cover.

[RustyBucket]

It wouldn't stop the tensioner from retracting because it could just slide out of the sleeve, then the sleeve would drop in to the timing cover.

Do you mean it would slide back inside, even though the chain guide isn't pressing on it because the sleeve takes the pressure (I don't think the piston could retract into the housing by itself without the chain guide pushing on it), or that that the tension from the guide to the sleeve would cause the sleeve to jump out from around the piston (so the question would be what kind of sleeve would stay in place)

 

I know this is something macgyver would pull out of his sleeve, but just maybe it could function at least as a temporary solution before commiting to invest in an expensive repair for a car that really hasn't got the miles for such expenses so soon...

 

Btw, I found this russian forum with some good info on the subject, with help from google translate I think theres some useful bits which I don't think were mentioned here already...

 

http://www.drive2.ru/l/3098586/

 

For instance, you can see how much the chain has stretched not only by physically inspecting the tensioner for how many teeth there are visible on the piston, but also by looking with VCDS, in the coding menu 01 Engine - Advanced meas. values - block 93 ... apparently, values -0 - -2 are okay, -2 - -4 conditionally ok, below -4 supposedly demand replacement.

 

Also some extensive info on this russian autobild article, google translate makes it surprisingly readable http://autobild.by/index.php?id=3607

Edited 3 July, 2014 by RustyBucket

[DGW]

Is there an easier way of translating those articles other than long-windedly cutting and pasting into Google Translate? I tried that on part of the second and yes, it does make very interesting reading. But does the information read across from the 1.4TSI engine to the 1.8/2.0TSI ones?

[JB-)]

Do you mean it would slide back inside, even though the chain guide isn't pressing on it because the sleeve takes the pressure (I don't think the piston could retract into the housing by itself without the chain guide pushing on it), 

 

Yes this. Even though the guide is against the sleeve, there's still nothing to physically stop the tensioner piston retracting, even though admittedly it might not. Also remember that by this point, we're saying that the tensioner has failed, therefore the retaining clip that is supposed to stop it retracting has come off and is floating around inside the timing cover.

 

For the sleeve to have any chance of working it would need to be made of something fairly strong that won't deform under pressure. It's a nice idea but I'm not convinced it would work, even if it were possible to actually fit one through that hole, which I don't think it is. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

[JB-)]

Is there an easier way of translating those articles other than long-windedly cutting and pasting into Google Translate?

 

Right click on the page and choose 'Translate to English' (Chrome), or Translate with Bing (IE).

[Alvo]

Also some extensive info on this russian autobild article, google translate makes it surprisingly readable http://autobild.by/index.php?id=3607

 

It's really interesting article, as i know russian, I have read through it. New thing for me was, that VW officially offers discount for reapair if owner can show proper service history an car is under 6 years and 200k km. And also that leaving car parked in gear unnecessary tension chain and apply pressure to tensioner. From now on I will use only handbrake They are also speculating about long-life oils but VW deny any relation to oil.

Mine is 2010. octy with CDAA engine and 37k miles on dash. VCDS block 93 is showing -1.53 so I should be fine. Later I will try to check also tensioner marks. But still, muffled taping noise from chain chamber during engine idling  bother me. Anyone else noticed noise from right engine side like chain hitting plastic tensioner guides from time to time ? And what oil do you use 5W-30 or 5W-40?

 

p.s. here one guy is doing chain replacement job and answering questions, but again - it's russian...

http://vwts.ru/forum/198467.html

 

 

 

Edited 4 July, 2014 by Alvo

[DGW]

The car comes from the factory with VW 504 00 (5W-30) LongLife oil as standard. Thereafter VW 502 (5W-40) oil can be used if on fixed service intervals. My car is now on fixed service intervals but I am continuing to use VW 504 00 oil which is always fully synthetic. VW 502 00 oil can be 10W-40 and may be semi rather than fully synthetic.

I haven't read any firm evidence that tensioner failure is more likely to be associated with using 504 00 rather than 502 00 oil, or vice versa. As the tensioner is pressurised by engine oil, it might be more at risk of failure if the engine oil level was allowed to drop rather than being kept at the higher end of the dipstick range, or if the oil pump is worn. But I am guessing...

Alvo, you profile shows that your engine is a 1.8TFSI. Is it badged as that in Latvia or have you made a mistake? The CDAA is a 1.8TSI engine.

[hmmmm]

I thought Skoda use the same oil for their interval and fixed services?

[DGW]

The Owners Manual says 504 00 for variable (QG1) and 502 00 for fixed (QG2) for the 1.8/2.0TSI engines. The dealer I had my car serviced at uses 504 00 for either service.

[Alvo]

Alvo, you profile shows that your engine is a 1.8TFSI. Is it badged as that in Latvia or have you made a mistake? The CDAA is a 1.8TSI engine.

Yes I made mistake, it's TSI. And thank you for answer.

[JB-)]

Mine is 2010. octy with CDAA engine and 37k miles on dash. VCDS block 93 is showing -1.53 so I should be fine. Later I will try to check also tensioner marks.

 

Out of curiosity I checked my car with VCDS and block 93-3 shows -1.44

 

 

 

All of this might give an idea of how stretched the timing chain is, but I'm not convinced it gives any clue as to whether or not the tensioner is about to fail.

[RustyBucket]

Did you measure when the engine is warm? I measured after a drive and kept the engine running while i measured and it showed -2.60, i have a 35k 1.8tsi...

The correlation is not direct, but the tensioner is supposed to be more at risk of failing after 4 teeth are exposed on its piston, which means the chain has stretched somewhat - how much can be seen with this vcds measurement. So you don't need to take apart the front right wheel arch and look through the hole in the cover (the plug on the hole is to be replaced with a new one once you remove it, supposedly) to see the tensioner directly. If vcds shows 0,00 then the tensioner shouldn't possibly have 4 teeth visible.

From what I have gathered, if you only replace the tensioner, the chain will keep stretching (because it also isnt constructed so well which is why there is a newer revision available) which means that the engine has to compensate (thats what the block 93-3 measures) the difference to run optimally. So with a revised tensioner you make sure the chain will not skip and destroy the engine(which is what this topic is about), but the engine doesnt run as good(citation needed exactly how, and how relevant is this) with values less than lets say -3 and below as it does on 0,00, which is after you replace the tensioner as well as the chain (and guides).

This is my understanding of things from various information, I am not a mechanic so take this with a grain of salt...

[JB-)]

It was warm but not red hot. VCDS was showing water temp of around 70 degrees.

[wedgeman]

So....i really really want to replace my '57 plate hatch with a petrol estate - am i better off sticking with a pre FL shape or am i safe if i was able to stretch to say an '11 plate 2.0TSi?

 

Really dont want to go down the diesel route although is that the safest way to get into an FL model VRS?

[neil_f]

So....i really really want to replace my '57 plate hatch with a petrol estate - am i better off sticking with a pre FL shape or am i safe if i was able to stretch to say an '11 plate 2.0TSi?

Really dont want to go down the diesel route although is that the safest way to get into an FL model VRS?

As I've said before you have to put this failure into perspective. How many 2.0tsi engines have vag produced compared to the small amount of failures? Yeah I wouldn't be pleased if it happened to me but it certainly wouldn't put me off buying one. Forums always highlight all the bad aspects of particular models. Could argue diesel might have dpf or dmf issues which, whilst not as catastrophic as engine failure, will still cost a few grand to replace and are more common than a tensioner failure.

[JB-)]

You could budget to either have the latest version chain and tensioner fitted, or to buy a warranty. Post May 2010 engines won't have the original version at least.

I just learned today that my brother's new neighbour had a Audi A3 diesel that had the tensioner fail, so diesels aren't 100% safe either.

[neil_f]

You could budget to either have the latest version chain and tensioner fitted, or to buy a warranty. Post May 2010 engines won't have the original version at least.

I just learned today that my brother's new neighbour had a Audi A3 diesel that had the tensioner fail, so diesels aren't 100% safe either.

Thought the diesels used a timing belt?

[JB-)]

Thought the diesels used a timing belt?

 

That's quite possible, although he did say the tensioner failed it could mean the one for a belt. It was a third-hand story after all. The point is still relevant though, that any engine can have a failure of some kind or another. Watchdog did a feature about timing failures on BMW diesels. 

 

As you said yourself, these failures have to be put in to perspective. I know it's no consolation if you are the one who's engine is goosed, but threads like this one worry people unnecessarily I think. 

[Norco]

I'm totally with JB on this one. If you didn't have a slight Skodafetish then you wouldn't even be aware of this thread or the potential problem. 

 

Its pretty comfy down here with your head in the sand - you should try it ;-)