Thatcher Dies Aged 87

[domhnall]

I don't know about that, but at the same time I have a Serbian friend, who doesn't share the view that they were evil.

She told me that as child she used to have to move around when a certain group came to her town and also slept (and last I knew still sleeps) with an loaded AK47 under her bed. She left her country, because she was persecuted for being a Christian in a non Christian area.

As with all cases, every side has at least two views and many different arguments.

Arkan isn't some low level soldier. He is a bona fide war criminal. Mixed up with major tory donor. http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/controversial-background-of-no-campaign-donor.20752120

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[Grizzle]

And yet...

In 12 years between 1964 & 1976 Harold Wilson oversaw the closure of 272 coal mines and 226,000 miners laid off.

In the 11 years from 1979 to 1990, Thatcher oversaw the closure of 146 mines and 152,000 miners laid off.

I don't understand why everything that happened was due to one PM. Why people are so bitter.

There were a lot of other things going on, industries were changing, demand for coal was reducing...

Fact is, the world was (and still is) changing. Sometimes you have to move with it.

Exactly!!!!!

People forget about the union which pretty much brought the strike on, i'm not saying they out and out started it but the under hand tactics didnt help

All of the other unions didnt agree with the strike (railway workers, steel workers etc) infact the strike was never balloted, it was all brought on by Scargell and the NUM, funny when 2 miners took them to court and they(Scargell and NUM) were ordered to pay fines, the NUM's millions had dissapeared abroad ... how strange eh.

[gadgetman]

While I don't actually agree with spending all that, it's not actually that much money for a one off event compared to what we pay weekly for all sorts of other things. Such as helping other countries in the EU as a membership fee.

How much do police forces spend policing each football match?

[gadgetman]

My dislike of the woman is based around the destruction of communities and the way collieries locally were closed. There was a huge investment which put that particular colliery in the red and it was closed.

Someone I knew managed pit after pit which was closed, and he eventually turned the key to close the coalfield - every time there was investment he predicted, and was right, closure!

A year or two ago, an article in the Sunday Times attributed a large part of the Thatcher's wealth to South African coal -probably a coincidence.

While I accept some of her strategies were needed they were done brutally and much of my home still suffers. A recent article suggested London on a GDP scale of 380 with Wales at about 70 - it's time we were less SE centric.

Well done BBC

If Maggie hadn't pulled the plug, what year would we have reached the same point of pit closures?

Coal was declining rapidly back then. The plug was essentially pulled to save the country money.

[Anzio]

Before debating Maggie in your local, make sure there aren't any ex-Paras or Marines about.

[domhnall]

Before debating Maggie in your local, make sure there aren't any ex-Paras or Marines about.

Because by scaling back the RN presence in the Falklands and then misreading the intelligence about the argentinians the government caused the death of troops? Or because they like her for giving them a fight?

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[James I]

Wet loony lefties are still proving to be just that over Thatchers death, she had to put down a sick dying over inflated greedy dog of a union controlled industry, it was killing Britain, millions of workers being paid to do nothing very slowly.

But of course it must be the fault of the conservatives

However, there is a pattern in the UK.

Labour are quick to give all the handouts and become popular, until its all gone, Conservative have to then fix the mess, they then get blamed for everything, they dont give to the leftie gimmies, eventually get voted out, labour come back all wet leftie and give it all away until its all gone, all over again....

and the stupid blame the others again, the crass shortsighted loonie left passes to the next generation

Rant over.

RIP Maggie T

[P6bJOHN]

Dom, I think the points about association with dictators is a misleading rabbit, that's international politics, there are numerous photos of Tony Blair cuddling up to Gaddafi, that went well didn't it? (well one of them is a now very wealthy man) Look back in history of British leaders of all parties being involved with various dictators, and don't forget our Imperial past.

I waiting for someone to vilify Margaret Thatcher for getting us chucked out of the Garden of Eden due her guilt of association by being a woman. I find it abhorrent that there are anachists who weren't even born during her premiership trying to cause trouble on the streets in some sick celebration of her death.

[domhnall]

John, her true genius was in transforming English politics so that the labour party moved right to embrace large chunks of neocon thinking. Blair was reasonably thatcherite.

I'm not sure quite what interests were served by the cosying up to the apartheid regime, though the reported conversation about Asians with the Australian foreign minister may explain some of it.

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[P6bJOHN]

So we are agreed, she was a complete politician, as was/is Tony Blair, and he has as many people who dislike him as Margaret Thatcher, but they are probably less vocal. Politicians, if their lips are moving, someones getting lied to.

[domhnall]

Her ability to shift the labour party to the right has resulted in a haemorrhage of support north of the border. Comoare the amount of red on the electoral maps 20 years ago with now, especially in local government terms. The difference is quite stark. Politicians in labour I have spoken to are still in a mix of denial and shock.

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[Eddie-NL]

Her ability to shift the labour party to the right has resulted in a haemorrhage of support north of the border. Comoare the amount of red on the electoral maps 20 years ago with now, especially in local government terms. The difference is quite stark. Politicians in labour I have spoken to are still in a mix of denial and shock.

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anti conservative

anti labour

does that mean you support the SNP

Perhaps you could post the name of a politician that you approve of.

[domhnall]

I never said I was anti anyone. Thatcher made some (in my view) bonkers decisions that cost me my job. My salary was nearly all consumed by poll tax so I find it hard to see her as this amazing saviour like figure.

But as for the others I've never said I was pro or anti any of them. I have worked closely with politicians in every party from the likes of robin cook through to peter luff. There's good and bad in all parties.

Mrs Thatcher (according to the leaked American assessment) was dragging her own party right, consciously alienating Scotland and her own Scottish colleagues, and she forced labour to follow suit. Genius. Even with Blair in her ideology was being followed and it had the double benefit of trashing labour in their birth place. You have to admire the genius of it.

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[Martin.S]

It's all well and good people saying that her death shouldn't be celebrated but IMO people shouldn't be portraying her as some kind of hero either just because she's died.

You are right - she was a hero before she died! At least she had balls unlike ALL the current party leaders. We could do with another one like her now to pull this country up by its boot straps to get us out of the mire we seem to be slipping into. </rant over>

[Ferdeche]

I never said I was anti anyone. Thatcher made some (in my view) bonkers decisions that cost me my job. My salary was nearly all consumed by poll tax so I find it hard to see her as this amazing saviour like figure.

I recall that the Poll tax levied in full was somewhere between £300-£400 per annum. Were you really earning somewhere in that region per annum (1991) or is your judgement being clouded?

[MartynVRS]

I'd never call her a "hero". It's an overused word today. I was only 2 when she stepped down/forced out as PM so don't know all about her but I've seen the after effects and the majority of people around here didn't like her. The only ones who did were mainly business owners and those making money. It seems there's two camps here where there's some who did well out of her so like her and those who got made redundant, lost out and understandably don't like her.

When it comes to voting I'm at a point where I wouldn't vote for any of the candidates. None of them can put forward a valid case for getting the country out of this mess and are only doing it to benefit themselves and their mates. Only one thing is for certain is that whatever party is in then someone will lose. It just needs to be decided if the majority benefits this time and how is best to make the money back. Make cuts fine, where money is being wasted but not when it means businesses can afford to employ people who then can't pay their contributions and end up costing more because of being on the dole.

[domhnall]

No it was a big chunk per month. I was making £4500 per year. I had to give up my flat and move back in with my parents

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[domhnall]

I'd never call her a "hero". It's an overused word today. I was only 2 when she stepped down/forced out as PM so don't know all about her but I've seen the after effects and the majority of people around here didn't like her. The only ones who did were mainly business owners and those making money. It seems there's two camps here where there's some who did well out of her so like her and those who got made redundant, lost out and understandably don't like her.

When it comes to voting I'm at a point where I wouldn't vote for any of the candidates. None of them can put forward a valid case for getting the country out of this mess and are only doing it to benefit themselves and their mates. Only one thing is for certain is that whatever party is in then someone will lose. It just needs to be decided if the majority benefits this time and how is best to make the money back. Make cuts fine, where money is being wasted but not when it means businesses can afford to employ people who then can't pay their contributions and end up costing more because of being on the dole.

And the MPs being paid £3700 expenses each to attend the thatcher debate doesn't exactly do much to engender trust in politics does it?

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[Dr Zoidberg]

And the MPs being paid £3700 expenses each to attend the thatcher debate doesn't exactly do much to engender trust in politics does it?

That's a hugely misleading statement.

If parliament is recalled early then MPs are supposed to attend where possible. *If* they are abroad on a family holiday and they all return they can claim the costs, up to £3700. If they are in the UK as the majority will be then its travel costs as normal.

If I was on holiday and needed to cut it short for work then I'd claim on my expenses too. Nothing wrong with that.

[domhnall]

I stand corrected, the media presented it as per my statement.

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[cheezemonkhai]

Some of the Media are foaming Commies.

[BossFox]

I do like a nice balanced debate.

[David 8]

I do like a nice balanced debate.

Which this wasn't supposed to be ...

[Huwcymru]

Interestingly, it seems that some of the huge reserves of coal still under South Wales (according to the most senior mining engineer in the area at closure time) are likely to be exploited by Tata-hopefully. Pity it wasn't a UK company.

Talking of UK, Thatcher can be thanked for uniting Scots and the Welsh so that they have both gained the right to make decisions without the interference of Westminster. In Wales, education, health, social services and others.

As an aside English people I worked with showed an alarming ignorance of the fact that both Scotland and Wales have separate legislatures.

[cheezemonkhai]

Some of the Media are foaming Commies.

I do like a nice balanced debate.

Ok some of the Media are right wing fachists too.