Retrofit Hill Hold Control

[silver1011]

I don't think hill hold would be much use to me on a manual car since I know how to drive. I always just hold the car with the clutch during the split second it takes me to move my right foot from the brake to the accelerator. I never use the handbrake.

I can drive too, but I wouldn't be without power steering, traction control and ABS etc. etc.

Most of us know how to hold a manual on a gradient with the handbrake, it is afterall part of the driving test here in the UK. The point of hillhold is that you don't have to.

It's called progress, just like not having to manually wind down the windows

[Fatbloke]

Hill hold has bugger all to do with the clutch. It is a function of the ABS module and all it does is keep the brakes on for a brief period whilst you juggle the pedals. It's only really necessary on a manual.

It isn't necessary on any car, as you pointed out, we have always managed with a handbrake for hill starts. However, it is a driver aid and it is quite useful in the absence of a traditional auto's creep or clutch control in a manual. The DSG7 has absolutely no creep as the clutches run dry and they are designed to operate with the absolute minimum of slip, hence the incredibly low 1st gear. HHC lends itself perfectly to this arrangement basically controlling the timing of the brake release with take up of drive.

[alberg]

I can try to activate hillhold on mine but ESP/ABS lights up with error. 2010 model

[Metblackrat]

Uh, what? I can't really agree with you here. I don't need hill hold in a manual transmission car because I can use the clutch to hold the car while I move my right foot from the brake to the accelerator.

A DSG on the other hand obviously doesn't have a clutch pedal, and the automated clutch needs a second to figure things out after I release the brake. I would roll freely into whatever was behind me if the ABS wasn't there to hold the brakes during that second, without any means of stopping it short of using the handbrake lever.

You have a different (wet DSG6) gearbox than I do, so hill hold might not be as necessary in your case. I know it absolutely is in mine. No way I'd want a DSG7 without it.

http://new.skoda-auto.com/en/models/HotspotDetail?HotspotName=C18%20-%20Asistent%20rozjezdu%20do%20kopce%20%5BFabia%2CRoomster%2C%20Octavia%2C%20Yeti%2C%20Superb%5D&WebID=e9b39c95-c26e-4a1d-baa5-49a7882c73e8&Page=technology

It tech for lazy people who can't be arsed with the handbrake.

[xpower]

Yeah you get an error for the G251 sensor no or incorrect calibration (something like this) if you select HHC on the ABS module long coding.

Once activated via long coding you can go to the measuring blocks (live data) and the g251 sensor reading is blank which I assume means it's not fitted. Be interesting to know if the harness and plug is there so you could just buy the sensor, bolt it up and plug it in or would it require a patch harness back to the ABS ECU as well.

I would love it on mine to stop that initial roll back when hill starting, you would have thought it would be std to prevent wear to the clutches (clutch having to catch the flywheel moving the opposite way momentarily)

What is nice is the feature that intermitantly uses the brake pads to "kiss" the brake discs when the wipers are on to keep the discs dry and the brakes working better in the rain. Simply yet effective!

Edited 21 April, 2013 by xpower

[Perc]

Most of us know how to hold a manual on a gradient with the handbrake, it is afterall part of the driving test here in the UK. The point of hillhold is that you don't have to.

It's called progress, just like not having to manually wind down the windows

I can't remember the last time I had to use the handbrake to do a hill start. I always just manage with the brake, clutch and accelerator. If you're used to using the handbrake, I guess hill hold would be a welcome addition.

[alberg]

I've always wondered if those who have HHC also have inclination sensor even though they did not ordered it.

[eccleshill]

Hill hold has bugger all to do with the clutch. It is a function of the ABS module and all it does is keep the brakes on for a brief period whilst you juggle the pedals. It's only really necessary on a manual.

Really! So when I take my foot off the brake pedal, hill hold keeps the brakes applied for up to 2 seconds to allow time for my foot to move from brake to throttle and during that time the DSG clutch is engaged straining like f### to move the car? I don't think so? It certainly wasn't like that this morning when I reversed up my drive! I think the different systems in the car talk to each better than you think - sometimes they have to, to prevent self-destruction..

On a manual car clearly Hill Hold has no effect on the clutch but a totally different story on a DSG. It may be different on your 6 speed wet clutch version (I assume you do have hill hold to speak so authoritatively) but on my 7 speed DSG the hill hold replicates use of the left foot to hold the brake during a hill start and that includes keeping the clutch disengaged until the throttle is applied to provide sufficient power to move away.

If you don't have hill hold on a DSG then your best option for hill starts is to hold the brake with the left foot and release as you accelerate away. That is one reason why the brake pedal is extra wide on an auto - to allow easy swap of feet in this situation. On a torque convertor auto box you can use either the left foot method or the handbrake.

Only necessary on a manual? Absolute opposite! I agree with those who say that HH on a manual is unnecessary - just synchronise the clutch, throttle and handbrake like you were taught for your test.

[reverse]

I never looked into HH because I have never needed one. Now a friend of mine was surprised that I have to hold my foot on the brake at traffic lights. He has an Audi with HH and he just stops at traffic lights and removes his foot from the brake - the car stays put until he steps on the accelerator.. Now that is something I would like. I don't need it, but I want it Reading the comments above, however, it feels like HH on an Octavia would not cater for this?

[Omegamark]

wow,.. been a busy thread since I was away for the weekend!

Well, I can confirm that its not as easy as changing a software option. I took it in past an indi VAG specialist thats on the way home from work on Friday and changed the option to enable the HHC but it throws up an error saying the incorrect module is installed.

Not going to take it any further than that as even if it can be done it looks like it would mean changing a bit of hardware which may bugger my warranty, nvm.

Its not like its hard to get where your going without it, it was just a nice feature to have on the old car.

Edited 22 April, 2013 by Omegamark

[Metblackrat]

Really! So when I take my foot off the brake pedal, hill hold keeps the brakes applied for up to 2 seconds to allow time for my foot to move from brake to throttle and during that time the DSG clutch is engaged straining like f### to move the car? I don't think so? It certainly wasn't like that this morning when I reversed up my drive! I think the different systems in the car talk to each better than you think - sometimes they have to, to prevent self-destruction..

On a manual car clearly Hill Hold has no effect on the clutch but a totally different story on a DSG. It may be different on your 6 speed wet clutch version (I assume you do have hill hold to speak so authoritatively) but on my 7 speed DSG the hill hold replicates use of the left foot to hold the brake during a hill start and that includes keeping the clutch disengaged until the throttle is applied to provide sufficient power to move away.

If you don't have hill hold on a DSG then your best option for hill starts is to hold the brake with the left foot and release as you accelerate away. That is one reason why the brake pedal is extra wide on an auto - to allow easy swap of feet in this situation. On a torque convertor auto box you can use either the left foot method or the handbrake.

Only necessary on a manual? Absolute opposite! I agree with those who say that HH on a manual is unnecessary - just synchronise the clutch, throttle and handbrake like you were taught for your test.

I thought the link I posted said it all really.

http://new.skoda-auto.com/en/models/HotspotDetail?HotspotName=C18%20-%20Asistent%20rozjezdu%20do%20kopce%20%5BFabia%2CRoomster%2C%20Octavia%2C%20Yeti%2C%20Superb%5D&WebID=e9b39c95-c26e-4a1d-baa5-49a7882c73e8&Page=technology

The reason I know its a brake module function is because I did a paper on developments of the ABS module for my Certified Automotive Engineers professional certification.

[Fatbloke]

EH, MBR is correct about the HHC having nothing to do with the clutches or gearbox. The clutch disengages when the car is stationary AND the footbrake is depressed. You will notice when on a level surface, if you release the brake pedal there is some delay before drive is engaged and you move off. You can speed up this process by using the accelerator so when in a hill hold situation, that delay in taking up the drive is ok because the brakes are still on for you but at this point, in exactly same way as on the flat the drive is not engaged. When you then press the accelerator the drive is taken up and the brakes released simultaneously, but these are two separate but co-ordinated events

[eccleshill]

I thought the link I posted said it all really.

http://new.skoda-aut...Page=technology

The reason I know its a brake module function is because I did a paper on developments of the ABS module for my Certified Automotive Engineers professional certification.

That link gives a very good simplified view of its operation on any car - manual or DSG.

With DSG it also has to interlock with the clutch release so the engine is not trying to move off against the resistance of the brakes.

Based on 3yrs/30k miles experience driving in hilly West Yorkshire, when I drive my 7 speed DSG with HHC it is OBVIOUS that this is happening. When I take my foot off the brake there is no lurch as the drive is taken up, there is no rise in engine revs. It just sits there on tickover until I press the throttle. If you wait over 2 secs and don't depress the throttle then:

• on a gentle slope - the tickover/anti-stall gently moves you off in the same way as it does on the flat
  
• on a steeper slope - if the tickover/anti-stall can't provide enough power, the brakes release, the car holds briefly on the clutch, the clutch disengages and you roll down the hill
  

If you drive one you will understand.

[brownfox]

Spoken to dealers Simpsons HHC cant be done on Blackline without affecting warranty they did offer to check ecu to see if it was a simple job but if it required altering it could still effect warranty, i give up.

[xpower]

Had a bit of a look into this and don't think it is possible. According to elsawin after 2008 (ish) the G251 Longitudinal Acceleration sensor which we need to get HHC control to work is built into the ABS module. I think you either have it or you don't. You could always replace the perfectly good ABS modulator but who's going to do that? :-D

[duro]

DSG7 has no creep? Really? Mine has.

Anyway, I didn't even know about the possibility of HH when I chose my car.

Expecially for one of the advantages of auto shift is that you can use left foot on the brake while preparing to accelerate (why should this be "bad practice"?)

Besides, there's the handbrake. It's not useless in uphill starts. If you've to start gently (not gunning away) on a steep ramp, because of space limitation or slippery surface.

Handbrake saved my life at least once (starting uphill on a muddy country road with roadside melting away under my wheels and a 300mt slope under me.) That's one reason why I hate the new fashion for electric handbrakes which can only be ON or OFF.

[barney333]

I have only had my skoda octavia estate 07 model dsg a couple of weeks and is my first auto.All loaded up with bags and stuff and 3 adults in the car entering center parcs at penrith and there is 2 lines of bumper to bumper cars approaching the entry gates on a steep hill.Panic set in when the car decided to roll backwards i immediately applied the handbrake and revved the ****ocks off it,it eventually moved forwards when i released the handbrake.Not for the faint hearted.Now i need to get some practice on local hills to see if it has hill hold....i have the elegance model 2.0litre.Just got back today so watch this space.

barney333

[philbes]

I have a vRS DSG Octavia (2011) and I do not have hill hold control.

My March 2012 MkII FL vRS TDi DSG definitely has Hill Hold.  I find it useful.  With my car a firm application of the footbrake is necessary to invoke the Hill Hold; if just light pressure is put on the brake pedal the Hill Hold is not activated.

[barney333]

well i just tested mine on a hill, applied the footbrake as normal...car stopped then i lifted my foot off the brake and the car rolled ever so slightly backwards..then the car stopped took maybe half a second...then the car crept forward as normal.Tried it a few times and it worked each time.Now that i have gained this new confidence driving on hills is a doddle.So i do have hill hold.

[brownfox]

According to Skoda UK this cannot be done on a Blackline or Octy VRS it has to be done in the factory.

[Eddie-NL]

According to Skoda UK this cannot be done on a Blackline or Octy VRS it has to be done in the factory.

what is the part number of your ABS module

[Eddie-NL]

I now have Hill Hold on my Vrs

[Eddie-NL]

Just been out and tried it

 

Fantastic, well worth it

[Superskoda]

New ABS module and some coding? How easy and what are the rough costs?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eddie-NL]

I fitted a used pump from ebay for around £85

 

once i got it all working then coded Hill hold

 

one tick box and working