I think it's unfair to expect any tuner to indemnify owners where manufacturer warranty is withdrawn, and I suspect the liability insurance cover would only apply where the tuning box or remap malfunctioned causing the turbo to over boost and fail, for example.

I suspect if there was an engine problem the owner would either have to prove that the tuning box or remap malfunctioned, and claim against the tuner, or that the engine problem was unrelated to the tuning box or remap, and claim against the manufacturer.

Either would be difficult I think.

My thoughts are that as far as boxes go, Dtuk have a very good reputation, similarly Shark with remaps. I have had product from both on different cars and was happy with both, but wouldn't be so naive as to expect them to provide warranty cover in lieu of manufacturers warranty.

It isn't a question of being naIve - I wouldn't expect them to cover a defect that wasn't their fault either. I am sure DTE is high quality equipment and very reliable. But that isn't my point here, which is modify your new car whilst it is under warranty and if anything goes wrong with any part even remotely associated with it - and you run the serious risk of being on your own and picking up a potentially very expensive bill.

Let me illustrate this. I fit a tuning mod to my engine from whoever. Six months later the transmission packs up due to a component failure - it happens, manual or DSG. My garage or a VAG engineer examines my car and says " You've tuned your car and this has taken it above the design spec for the gearbox in this particular installation. Sorry Mr Timoctav, here's the bill for £2,000 for a replacement gearbox because we are not covering it due to the tuning mod you have had carried out which is not Skoda approved".

How do I defend that?

Edited 31 May, 201313 yr by Timoctav

As ive stated before I think the chances of a dealer identifying the fact a tuning box has been connected to a car at any given point is very very unlikely. In any case there is no physical evidence to the contrary; entirely their word against yours.

I agree if you stuck your car in for a service with the obligatory cabling or even the box in place then yes they have absolute evidence to then void your warranty but who'd honestly be daft enough to do that?

Again as i said before, you remove the box the car returns to entirely OEM state unlike a remap that leaves both physical and software change evidence behind; software changes now easily detected by VAS (as i understand it).

Goes without saying if you want the equivalent of a remap without physically altering the hardware or software or have warranty concerns it really is the only way to go.

My only quibble is that £300+ is still alot of money in my eyes for a small plastic box with a circuit board that fools a car in to injecting more fuel and increasing boost pressure and comparatively I would suggest a decent remap is probably better value. If it were in the region of £200 id have probably bought one months ago.

Also for something to show up on the logs that would raise the eyebrows of a tech you'd probably have to go silly with the settings on the box for it to log a fault in the ECU and you'd no doubt be notified of that on the dash. Then who are they to argue that the car hasnt just been playing up.

Edited 31 May, 201313 yr by pipsyp

FFS, hope shark performance get the same grief when they announce there chip for the same engine.

Same issue applies so yes they would.

As ive stated before I think the chances of a dealer identifying the fact a tuning box has been connected to a car at any given point is very very unlikely. In any case there is no physical evidence to the contrary; entirely their word against yours.

I agree if you stuck your car in for a service with the obligatory cabling or even the box in place then yes they have absolute evidence to then void your warranty but who'd honestly be daft enough to do that?

Again as i said before, you remove the box the car returns to entirely OEM state unlike a remap that leaves both physical and software change evidence behind; software changes now easily detected by VAS (as i understand it).

Goes without saying if you want the equivalent of a remap without physically altering the hardware or software or have warranty concerns it really is the only way to go.

My only quibble is that £300+ is still alot of money in my eyes for a small plastic box with a circuit board fools a car in to injecting more fuel and increasing boost pressure and comparitively I would suggest a decent remap is probably better value. If it were in the region of £200 id have probably bought one months ago.

You sure that if the diagnostic equipment was connected to the engine management it would not show a history of higher boost pressures or fuel injection variations? This equipment can detect engine over-revs, launch control (if fitted - I know not appropriate to Skoda), knock sensor retardation if you've used fuel below spec, or put in a fuel additive so I'm sure it would find a history of boost pressure and fuel injection.

Hi, I want to fill my engine with sand. I know this will invalidate my warranty, but can I claim against the builder's merchant for a new engine?

Hi, I want to fill my engine with sand. I know this will invalidate my warranty, but can I claim against the builder's merchant for a new engine?

Modifying your engine whilst still under manufacturer's warranty is nearly as stupid IMO.

Thats my point. Too many people want others to take responsibility for their actions.

FFS, hope shark performance get the same grief when they announce there chip for the same engine.

And by that I presume you mean every other engine tuner? No need to single out one in particular, just because they are well-regarded on here, and, therefore, likely to the main competition for this product

And by that I presume you mean every other engine tuner? No need to single out one in particular, just because they are well-regarded on here, and, therefore, likely to the main competition for this product

Yes you presume correctly. I am not singling out any particular supplier. DTE happened to be the first to start a thread advertising an engine tuning system to a brand new model so the concerns were raised on this thread. I am not in the automotive industry, have no axe to grind and no hidden agenda. My concerns apply to ANY tuning modification from ANY supplier that is not OEM approved fitted to an engine whilst under warranty. My background is in the marine industry, I am an ex Chief Engineer so I know a little bit about engines.

Edited 31 May, 201313 yr by Timoctav

Yes you presume correctly. I am not singling out any particular supplier. DTE happened to be the first to start a thread advertising an engine tuning system to a brand new model so the concerns were raised on this thread. I am not in the automotive industry, have no axe to grind and no hidden agenda. My concerns apply to ANY tuning modification from ANY supplier that is not OEM approved fitted to an engine whilst under warranty. My background is in the marine industry, I am an ex Chief Engineer so I know a little bit about engines.

My response was't actually directed at you, but at the person I quoted

Do I take it from your comment above that we can expect a blanket comment from you every time someone releases a new map/software/hardware for any engine/vehicle, warning of the pros and cons of how it might affect warranties etc, just because you as an individual do not want to risk it?

Timoctav, is this all for our benefit? Are you trying to protect us or something?

Timoctav, is this all for our benefit? Are you trying to protect us or something?

I don't understand this apparent hostility and sarcasm from Brimma or yourself. This is a discussion forum and I am quite entitled to express my opinions here as long as they are well founded, impartial and not libelous as you and anyone else are entitled to disagree. I know personally people who have carried out similar non OEM approved mods and lived to regret it later financially and I mean big ££££ - on cars from VAG if not Skoda themselves. I don't see any issue with raising concerns here.

You're too sensitive, I'm not being hostile. I just asked you a simple question to establish your motives.

Hi, I want to fill my engine with sand. I know this will invalidate my warranty, but can I claim against the builder's merchant for a new engine?

LOL. I think the berating of the tuning device has gone way to far. We all know the risks so its our choice. If you dont want to risk it fine but Timoctav please shut up about it.

Edited 31 May, 201313 yr by Jockdooshbag

You're too sensitive, I'm not being hostile. I just asked you a simple question to establish your motives.

If I over reacted then I apologise. :think: I have no motives - why would I?

Edited 31 May, 201313 yr by Timoctav

If I over reacted then I apologise. :think: I have no motives - why would I?

You're motivated to make the same point several times, it's like you think people on a motoring enthusiasts forum, a forum where chipping/remapping/modifying is a staple discussion point might not know about the risks.

You're motivated to make the same point several times, it's like you think people on a motoring enthusiasts forum, a forum where chipping/remapping/modifying is a staple discussion point might not know about the risks.

Not at all. I am merely debating posts and answering replies. I am a member of several enthusiast forums - the main one is Rennteam.com, I joined here to learn about Skoda's as I am about to take delivery of my first one and picked up some valuable tips. But I really don't see the issue with debating other topics - but there seems to be an issue with others that may disagree and want to make a big song and dance about it.

Edited 31 May, 201313 yr by Timoctav

As ive stated before I think the chances of a dealer identifying the fact a tuning box has been connected to a car at any given point is very very unlikely. In any case there is no physical evidence to the contrary; entirely their word against yours.

I agree if you stuck your car in for a service with the obligatory cabling or even the box in place then yes they have absolute evidence to then void your warranty but who'd honestly be daft enough to do that?

Again as i said before, you remove the box the car returns to entirely OEM state unlike a remap that leaves both physical and software change evidence behind; software changes now easily detected by VAS (as i understand it).

Goes without saying if you want the equivalent of a remap without physically altering the hardware or software or have warranty concerns it really is the only way to go.

My only quibble is that £300+ is still alot of money in my eyes for a small plastic box with a circuit board that fools a car in to injecting more fuel and increasing boost pressure and comparatively I would suggest a decent remap is probably better value. If it were in the region of £200 id have probably bought one months ago.

Also for something to show up on the logs that would raise the eyebrows of a tech you'd probably have to go silly with the settings on the box for it to log a fault in the ECU and you'd no doubt be notified of that on the dash. Then who are they to argue that the car hasnt just been playing up.

the beauty of the box is that you can transfer to another car, infact 1000's of different cars for a fee of approx £60.00.

Factor in that you have a tangable item to sell at a later date too, and the whole of life costs work back at around £200

i have one customer who purchased a CRD-T from us 2 years ago and its been on his BMW 320D, Audi TT TDI, Audi Q7 3.0TDI, and is just about to be transferred over to his 3.0V6 Nissan Navara. in total its cost him around £500 to tune 4 vehicles, and still has a system thats worth £150-£200 used.

Edited 31 May, 201313 yr by Andrew@DTUK

Not at all. I am merely debating posts and answering replies. I am a member of several enthusiast forums - the main one is Rennteam.com, I joined here to learn about Skoda's as I am about to take delivery of my first one and picked up some valuable tips. But I really don't see the issue with debating other topics - but there seems to be an issue with others that may disagree and want to make a big song and dance about it.

Fair enough, just wanted to point out that I think the negatives of engine modifying are already fairly well understood here. Perhaps you managed to educate one or two newcomers so no harm done.

DTUK are also a sponsor here, so it might have been taken badly by some of the regulars here.

FWIW, I have never modified any of my cars, been tempted, though.

You sure that if the diagnostic equipment was connected to the engine management it would not show a history of higher boost pressures or fuel injection variations? This equipment can detect engine over-revs, launch control (if fitted - I know not appropriate to Skoda), knock sensor retardation if you've used fuel below spec, or put in a fuel additive so I'm sure it would find a history of boost pressure and fuel injection.

Weve had this discussion before timoctav. I totally agree with your sentiment that certainly the ECU can log an awful lot of data and a tech that really knows the cars may well dig that deep and turn something up.

The point im trying to make is that 1. That would be extremely unlikely and 2. Other than turning round and saying the car was requesting too much fuel pressure or boost (bearing in mind a tuning box wont push these figures miles out of normal tolerances and the idea is that it does its work without faults being logged in the ECU in the first place) how can they physically prove youve had a tuning box on there if its been completely removed.

It is a grey area but in my view Id love to see Skoda use that one to try and reject a warranty claim as there really is no way they can substantiate it unless youre foolhardy enough to put the car in for a service/repair without removing it all first; you'd have to be a bit of a prat or not really care to do that.

Edited 31 May, 201313 yr by pipsyp

the beauty of the box is that you can transfer to another car, infact 1000's of different cars for a fee of approx £60.00.

Factor in that you have a tangable item to sell at a later date too, and the whole of life costs work back at around £200

i have one customer who purchased a CRD-T from us 2 years ago and its been on his BMW 320D, Audi TT TDI, Audi Q7 3.0TDI, and is just about to be transferred over to his 3.0V6 Nissan Navara. in total its cost him around £500 to tune 4 vehicles, and still has a system thats worth £150-£200 used.

That is fair call Andrew; just making the point if youre boxes were a bit cheaper id expect you'd sell a fair few more of them; not that you dont sell loads of them anyway I'm sure as they are v popular. I'd almost certainly buy one but at nearly £400 still a bit rich for me I'm afraid.

Fair enough, just wanted to point out that I think the negatives of engine modifying are already fairly well understood here. Perhaps you managed to educate one or two newcomers so no harm done.

DTUK are also a sponsor here, so it might have been taken badly by some of the regulars here.

FWIW, I have never modified any of my cars, been tempted, though.

I did wonder about the sponsor issue, I must admit...

Anyway, on that friendly note let's park this debate and move on.

That is fair call Andrew; just making the point if youre boxes were a bit cheaper id expect you'd sell a fair few more of them; not that you dont sell loads of them anyway I'm sure as they are v popular. I'd almost certainly buy one but at nearly £400 still a bit rich for me I'm afraid.

i wish we could sell them cheaper bud, but as were using a quality system were unable to do so..

I could buy chips from race chip for about 40 euros each (like most uk companies)and sell them for £200.00 and make a nice little packet

I did wonder about the sponsor issue, I must admit...

Anyway, on that friendly note let's park this debate and move on.

from my point of view Timoctav, this kind of discussion is needed and is the life blood of any decent community. S

o no hard feelings from me

from my point of view Timoctav, this kind of discussion is needed and is the life blood of any decent community. S

o no hard feelings from me

Nor me. I am sure you have an excellent product there.