Big brakes

[Brimma]

Have fun with your brakes upgrades, I am out of here.

I do, but not in a mad way, as I don't drive like a tw@

[vRSy]

Jabo, you are special. Still no answer on that question though lol.

[TeflonTom]

I must admit that jabo does have a fair point about increasing braking distances, I've personally seen brake size upgrades that have increased the braking distance on low to moderate braking. The car in question was a polo and it went from 256mm discs to 280mm discs using the same caliper and pad type which is a well documented 'upgrade' on them.. Anyway made the braking efficiency drop at low to moderate speeds, I think this was due to the pads not getting to a high enough temperature due to the increased surface area of the disc dissipating the heat more quickly.. Under heavy braking there was little to no effect on the the stopping distance but they just weren't fading as quickly. Strange really, I always assumed that a bigger disc gives you more leverage at the wheel to stop the car but it's not so, the clamping pressure of the caliper is the only factor that makes any difference,

ironically a bigger caliper has bigger pads which increases the surface area of the pad which therefore decreases the pressure applied to the disc assuming the piston is the same size of course..

there's lots to know about brakes, and most people on here know very little about them, me included.

[Taylor477]

. . I seem to have generated quite the interest in PB brakes

Personally.. all this mathematical chatter still doesn't sort out the arguement.. I suppose its a matter in opinion and what the use will be. If 330mm 6pot brakes weren't better than a single piston larger diameter setup.. then cars such as the Megan r26r wouldn't utilise the 6pot setup. I believe that upgraded brake kits such as a 330mm 6pot over a 312mm single piston allow you to brake harder, for longer with less brake fade.

Also.. lets not stray away from the brake that a 330mm 6pot that fills a 17" alloy looks amazing and just complete the look.

In my rather uneducated mind about braking knowledge compared to some of the brain-boxes on here.. I can't understand, despite the mathematical 'proof'.. how a smaller brake rotor, with a mono-piston caliper.. will perform better than a larger rotor, with multi-piston caliper.

I'll leave this down to the pro's such as PB Brakes!

[vRSy]

I must admit that jabo does have a fair point about increasing braking distances, I've personally seen brake size upgrades that have increased the braking distance on low to moderate braking. The car in question was a polo and it went from 256mm discs to 280mm discs using the same caliper and pad type which is a well documented 'upgrade' on them.. Anyway made the braking efficiency drop at low to moderate speeds, I think this was due to the pads not getting to a high enough temperature due to the increased surface area of the disc dissipating the heat more quickly.. Under heavy braking there was little to no effect on the the stopping distance but they just weren't fading as quickly. Strange really, I always assumed that a bigger disc gives you more leverage at the wheel to stop the car but it's not so, the clamping pressure of the caliper is the only factor that makes any difference,

ironically a bigger caliper has bigger pads which increases the surface area of the pad which therefore decreases the pressure applied to the disc assuming the piston is the same size of course..

there's lots to know about brakes, and most people on here know very little about them, me included.

That sounds like the issue wasnt the larger brakes, but incorrect choice of pads. I could go and stick a set of Ferrodo DS3000 or M1155 pads on my car and lose lots of braking performance particularly from cold. but that is 100% expected as their operating temperature range is far above that of an OEM road pad. I always look at the operating range of the pads befoe i buy anyway. You can also get infrared temp sensors to monitor them as well. This is the sole reason why i was advised not to upgrade my rear brakes, as temperature would then become an issue as they dont get upto any high temps when stock.

[KenONeill]

. . I seem to have generated quite the interest in PB brakes

Personally.. all this mathematical chatter still doesn't sort out the arguement.. I suppose its a matter in opinion and what the use will be. If 330mm 6pot brakes weren't better than a single piston larger diameter setup.. then cars such as the Megan r26r wouldn't utilise the 6pot setup. I believe that upgraded brake kits such as a 330mm 6pot over a 312mm single piston allow you to brake harder, for longer with less brake fade.

Also.. lets not stray away from the brake that a 330mm 6pot that fills a 17" alloy looks amazing and just complete the look.

In my rather uneducated mind about braking knowledge compared to some of the brain-boxes on here.. I can't understand, despite the mathematical 'proof'.. how a smaller brake rotor, with a mono-piston caliper.. will perform better than a larger rotor, with multi-piston caliper.

I'll leave this down to the pro's such as PB Brakes!

This one I actually do understand; the only technical advantage that a multi-pot caliper offers over a 2 pot with the same piston surface area is that it spreads the applied pressure more evenly over the pad.

[KenONeill]

. . I seem to have generated quite the interest in PB brakes

Personally.. all this mathematical chatter still doesn't sort out the arguement.. I suppose its a matter in opinion and what the use will be. If 330mm 6pot brakes weren't better than a single piston larger diameter setup.. then cars such as the Megan r26r wouldn't utilise the 6pot setup. I believe that upgraded brake kits such as a 330mm 6pot over a 312mm single piston allow you to brake harder, for longer with less brake fade.

Also.. lets not stray away from the brake that a 330mm 6pot that fills a 17" alloy looks amazing and just complete the look.

In my rather uneducated mind about braking knowledge compared to some of the brain-boxes on here.. I can't understand, despite the mathematical 'proof'.. how a smaller brake rotor, with a mono-piston caliper.. will perform better than a larger rotor, with multi-piston caliper.

I'll leave this down to the pro's such as PB Brakes!

This one I actually do understand; the only technical advantage that a multi-pot caliper offers over a 2 pot with the same piston surface area is that it spreads the applied pressure more evenly over the pad.

[Yeti_Man]

This one I actually do understand; the only technical advantage that a multi-pot caliper offers over a 2 pot with the same piston surface area is that it spreads the applied pressure more evenly over the pad.

It does have other benefits, especially when the pistons are different sized within the same caliper. Personally I've found larger brake upgrades that kept the single floating caliper design, a bit of a let down. An example of this was moving to the S3 345mm disk set up on my last VRS.

[KenONeill]

It does have other benefits, especially when the pistons are different sized within the same caliper. Personally I've found larger brake upgrades that kept the single floating caliper design, a bit of a let down. An example of this was moving to the S3 345mm disk set up on my last VRS.

Er, a 2-pot caliper and a single pot floating caliper are 2 different things anyway.

[Yeti_Man]

Er, a 2-pot caliper and a single pot floating caliper are 2 different things anyway.

yes, and both are inferior to the four and six pots I've had IMO for the same reasons

[KenONeill]

yes, and both are inferior to the four and six pots I've had IMO for the same reasons

Now that you've accepted that you were introducing a straw man in the single pot floating caliper, are you actually going to tell us what other reasons make a 6-pot better than a 2 (assuming the same standards of engineering and manufacturing in both)?

[Yeti_Man]

Now that you've accepted that you were introducing a straw man in the single pot floating caliper, are you actually going to tell us what other reasons make a 6-pot better than a 2 (assuming the same standards of engineering and manufacturing in both)?

No, Im not a lecturer, im purely relaying what ive experienced through many different brake upgrades with many different cars.

[Money hungry]

Sorry, I thought this was going to be about snooker.

[KenONeill]

No, Im not a lecturer, im purely relaying what ive experienced through many different brake upgrades with many different cars.

I'll take that as meaning that you think you get better brake feel, but actually don't know why you might.

[Kiwibacon]

This one I actually do understand; the only technical advantage that a multi-pot caliper offers over a 2 pot with the same piston surface area is that it spreads the applied pressure more evenly over the pad.

Indeed. Especially when to get the maximum stopping torque the brake pad is low in height, long and around the very edge of the rotor.

There are two almost seperate considerations with a brake upgrade.

1. Stopping torque/force.

2. Heat rejection.

To make your car stop harder (#1) you can fit bigger diameter rotors (increases torque, which increases stopping force) or calipers with either bigger pistons or more pistons to get more area. But you need to keep the balance with the rears. You can also fit pads with a higher grip level. But these can be tempermental, especially when cold or when used gently.

To make your brakes reject more heat you can fit better vented rotors, better vented wheels, air ducts to the brakes etc. Bigger and heavier rotors will help temporarily as it'll take longer to heat them up. In some situations this will be enough, in others it won't.

I've upgraded the brakes in two of my vehicles. In one I was able to fit bigger front rotors and a similar caliper (all bolt on from a related vehicle). The result was excellent and front/rear bias stayed acceptable.

In the other I fitted calipers with bigger pistons (25% more area) to the fronts and removing the PRV to the rears made the front/rear brake bias very good.

In both cases I was after more stopping force (simply being able to stop harder) as the stock systems were woeful. Both systems gained heat rejection capacity as well, the larger rotors on the first will move more cooling air, the other got better vented rotors at the same time.

[liam-broadhead]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140987614183?ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1427.l2648&autorefresh=true Are these right for a mk1 fabia vrs se brake upgrade? Thanks Liam

[Dark_Hero]

So long as it has the carriers too then yes they are

[M12MKD]

I'm more confused now than I was before I started reading this thread.

[devonutopia]

Mine stops very quickly indeed, and I've not even bedded them in properly yet. I know they will be even better still soon.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/278833-new-brakes-d2-6-pot-330mm/

[Dark_Hero]

I'm more confused now than I was before I started reading this thread.

I agree. Got quite technical lol

From what I've seen though, big brakes work that's enough for me

[grr666]

From what I've seen though, big brakes work

[Dark_Hero]

[M12MKD]

Well as I was confused I did want any insane man would do, asked a woman or should I say women in the office.

They all send bigger is better! Though I won't go into the conversation that followed.

So anyway my rear pads are worn should I bother upgrading to better pads/discs or just bung standard stuff.

[Jabozuma]

I'd suggest fitting 20" alloys, purely to be able to fit something like 500mm rotors and 12 pot calipers lol

[Dark_Hero]

Good idea. Wouldn't like the thought of 25 profile tyres though lol