DSG v Manual

[EwenS]

After 7 years, 2*VRS (a mk2 & a FL) and 100k+ miles of mostly enjoyable motoring I need to start considering the replacement for the current VRS.  So I'm looking forward to the Mk3 launch in a couple of weeks.

 

Both VRS have been manual and I always shied away from the complications of the DSG box.  This time however I'm not so sure.  Despite the stories of problems with them my local Skoda salesman who has long VAG experience swears by them.  My thoughts are that the technology should be more mature and, as always with the "net", the bad stories come to the fore.

 

So before I get too carried away with the spec of my new car, what are peoples thoughts?

 

 

[CFB]

DSG all the way.

It's a fabulous bit of kit and we wouldn't be without it now.

We always shied away from auto before because of the lazy changes, lack of engine braking and higher fuel consumption.

The DSG performs very smooth and very quick changes, does have some engine braking and the fuel consumption isn't that much higher than the manual equivalent.

We quite often see high 40's round town and low 50's on longer journeys when cruise is in use.

Just go for it, I doubt you'll be disappointed

[darnell]

DSG all the way.

It's a fabulous bit of kit and we wouldn't be without it now.

We always shied away from auto before because of the lazy changes, lack of engine braking and higher fuel consumption.

The DSG performs very smooth and very quick changes, does have some engine braking and the fuel consumption isn't that much higher than the manual equivalent.

We quite often see high 40's round town and low 50's on longer journeys when cruise is in use.

Just go for it, I doubt you'll be disappointed

 

I agree with the above don't want to go back to manual Very happy with DSG

[JerryT]

I'm still in two minds (Fabia VRS) as to whether the DSG is the way to go. I guess it really comes down to what you want. Drive is just too timid and does not change down to give you engine breaking which I don't like, Sport does change down to give you some engine breaking but is absolutely mad under acceleration as it expects you to go to the red line on the change up. In a perfect world I would like another setting that gives me a change up at 4 or 5000 rpm and changes down to give me engine breaking when slowing.

I can of course over ride all of this by either putting it in manual and using the stick for shifting or by using the paddles, but ultimately I would like more from the gearbox itself. However, when you want to have fun and just nail it out of a bend/roundabout (where it is safe to do so) the fact that you cAn keep your foot planted and just let the box change up for you without lifting does put a real smile on my face.

Bottom line I like the DSG. Could it do more, the answer to that is yes but it is fun. Would I buy another car with DSG? Probably, but I would like it to have some more functionality rather than just Drive and Sport. Recognising the seven speed in the Fabia is different to that in the Octavia, mine has been trouble free for 41000 miles.

JT

[Tom Tallon]

As recorded elsewhere in other posts , I had a bad experience of DSG reliability - box replaced in entirety under warranty after 8 months use from new!

 

However that's 7 speed dry clutch DSG. Noone's done a count between two systems but the problems in the Far East and elsewhere seem restricted to the 7 speed dry clutch DSG.

 

As you are looking at VRS you will be almost certainly going down the 6 speed higher torque box - apart from my reliability problems everything about the box is positive ( some people moan about controlling smooth movement in reverse and it certainly needs light feet to get it ultra smooth but it comes with experience).

 

I'd say go for it subject to being happy with reviews over the next three months.

[James I]

DSG 1 - Manual 0     my next car will be DSG based on the way the Wife's Fabia VRS drives, gear changing no more.

[Nobafett]

There is no doubt that the DSG is excellent. I've driven a Gti and Fabia vRS with it and it performed excellently. However, a true driving enthusiast would choose a manual every time, you just can't beat that feeling of rapid heel and toe changes. That's my opinion anyway.

[booke23]

+1 for DSG.

 

I'm not sure I'd own a 7 speed dry clutch out of warranty.

 

Heel and toe is all well and good, but for pure acceleration performance in real world conditions, you can't beat the DSG's 8 millisecond up shifts.     

[James I]

There is no doubt that the DSG is excellent. I've driven a Gti and Fabia vRS with it and it performed excellently. However, a true driving enthusiast would choose a manual every time, you just can't beat that feeling of rapid heel and toe changes. That's my opinion anyway.

 

 After doing a few track days in a DSG car and driving 45K per year on average and considering myself as an enthusiast, I see no reason not to have DSG.

 

 F1, use a version of it, WRC use a version of it so how enthusiastic would one need to be to want or need to change gears manually?

 

 I agree it is a personal choice ultimately but with traffic congestion and city obstructions such as traffic lights with the ability to always be red I see no reason to use a manual car.

[paddypaws]

+1 more for  DSG

 

Agree with all the positives above but not mentioned yet is traffic.  I spend a lot of time in traffic jams in London. Who wants a clutch peddle in those condtions? DSG keeps you relaxed in bad traffic and puts a smile on your face when you want to boot it. I will never buy another manual.

[Nobafett]

I do agree about the bad traffic side of things, luckily I live in the South West and don't commute.

[Auric Goldfinger]

There's only one think better than Sliced Bread and that's the DSG box.

[silver1011]

I'd have a DSG... when its in warranty.

 

I keep my cars until they die so with the DMF, DPF, turbo and A/C compressor I'll stick to swapping my cogs manually for now.

 

That fact I can't even say or spell mechatronics is a good reson for me to avoid DSG

[James I]

I will hopefully put all these myths of warranty and mechatronics to bed, my next car to replace the Yeti will be DSG, 45k per year of complete thrash should prove things one way or another   

[Looie]

Tried a DSG at a Skoda Dealer not too far from me before I eventually bought a manual Octavia VRS - why? - didn't like the DSG one bit I'm afraid - felt like an OAP driving it..... clumsy, clunky changes in "Normal", in "Sport" little control over what I wanted it to do and caught me out a few times when I was expecting it to change up and it didn't....... then when it didn't change down when I expected it to I almost ended up rear ending a caravan.... wasn't impressed at all - was expecting a lot more with all the positive reviews that abound.... when I asked the Salesman what was wrong with it - he said said, "they are all like this" - then took a manual VRS out, and what a difference! - gear changes at the exact point I wanted, braking great, heel and toe excellent - no contest as far as I'm concerned... I do little town driving so really can't ever see me ever getting one in the future...... to me the DSG is just a mediocre automatic with slightly faster changes than the rest of the automatic gearbox cars out there (but even then, the rest are fast catching up) - OK if your'e a pensioner or do lots of heavy town traffic driving, but if you like proper control of the cars handling/performance, then for me it's manual gearbox all the way............

[Phil-E]

We used to just have manuals and just decided to try the DSG when looking for a new car.

Never looked back! Love it!

There's a guy on here in Ireland running a 2.0 140 DSG with over 500km on it with no problems.

Phil

[james_19742000]

ONce you get used to the DSG, its a fantastic box, I have been wanting an 'auto' box for several years but couldnt quite bring myself to step out of a manual box, but, with the technology these days there isnt in my mind any good reason why a DSG shouldnt be given serious thought, when I test drove the Octavia I tested a manual one and yes it was great, enjoyed it and I knew it was what I wanted, but I wanted to test the DSG so I tried a standard Octavia with DSG and that confirmed what I wanted!

 

I ordered my car as a petrol and apart from changing after to 12 months to a diesel I dont regret my decision at all, the gearbox computer gets used to your style of driving so it learns to anticipate when you are likely to change gear, mine is just getting better at decison making even after 10K miles, I get none of the stuff people mention pullinng away from lights etc where they mention that slight hesitation almost, and being honest I rarely use the Sport mode I do occasionally but find that teh majority of my driving D is perfect for it, and it has enough poke to give you a bit of speed if you need it.

 

In modern day traffic and our lovely traffic jams etc I have dont understand why people would voluntarily have a car with 3 pedals and some work when you can have a car with 2 pedals and half the work......  maybe its me being lazy but it just makes more sense to me.

 

My wife has a Beetle with a 6 speed manual, and yes it is nice car and a nice drive but it just annoys me having to use a clutch!!!

 

DSG all the way!!!  Go for it, you wont regret it!

[JR RS]

Tried a DSG at a Skoda Dealer not too far from me before I eventually bought a manual Octavia VRS - why? - didn't like the DSG one bit I'm afraid - felt like an OAP driving it..... clumsy, clunky changes in "Normal", in "Sport" little control over what I wanted it to do and caught me out a few times when I was expecting it to change up and it didn't....... then when it didn't change down when I expected it to I almost ended up rear ending a caravan.... wasn't impressed at all - was expecting a lot more with all the positive reviews that abound.... when I asked the Salesman what was wrong with it - he said said, "they are all like this"

Sounds like u drove a dud.

U can't base it on just one drive, specially a dealer demo.

A DSG wont drive it like an auto either.

[pipsyp]

Ive always favoured manuals but had a couple of DSGs recently and the new vRS manual would have to be amazing to make me want to change back.

I think most people who havent gotten on with it really havent given it a chance; I wont say its without its faults, on my diesel vRS its gear selection in drive can be pretty poor at times though its geared for economy, S mode can overrev the engine a bit if youre too keen on the throttle, M is best but find its insistence on changing down to first whilst rolling v irritating and it doesnt do this in D or S. However after a while you learn how to drive around these quirks and have to say at full chat and with quick standing starts I think an equivalent manual car would struggle to get the better of it, particularly given both petrol and diesel DSG vRS's have launch control.

Perhaps Im getting older but on longer journeys not having to constantly stir a gearlever is the major benefit. I live in Oxford and the family are down on the south coast and with the regular M25 tripa i have to undertake part of me wonders how I ever managed before....i used to get serious knee ache on my Golf after particularly bad journeys, not any more!

[BossFox]

It depends what you want the car for and what you expect from it.

 

If it's just a run around then DSG all the way.  I have no concerns over reliability.

But DSG just does not give the same driver involvement that a manual does.

 

It may be old fashioned pressing that third pedal and stirring a stick about, but it's work you are doing to get the car doing what you want.

 

For fun, I'd rather have a manual.

 

I do have a DSG and a manual.  I prefer the latter because getting the best out of it requires skill.  It's more rerwarding.

DSG may be quicker and more capable, but it's less involving and ultimately a bit boring unless it's in a completely mad car where you just couldn't have a manual.

 

I bought a mk2 Fabia VRS with it's DSG and it was so terminally boring I sold it after four days.

I'd rather go slower and have more fun.

[BossFox]

 After doing a few track days in a DSG car and driving 45K per year on average and considering myself as an enthusiast, I see no reason not to have DSG.

 

 F1, use a version of it, WRC use a version of it so how enthusiastic would one need to be to want or need to change gears manually?

 

In competition all that matters is time.  Who is the fastest.  That's why motorsport teams don't fit manuals anymore.

It's also why top level supercars are now moving over too, they are competing on 0-62mph times, 0-100mph times.  DSG does away with the weak link here, the meat sack in the driving seat.

 

Speed is not the same as fun.  So many people miss this point.

You can go slower and have more fun.

I also believe there is a lot of rewarding feedback and satisfaction from heel and toe, balancing the car etc...

 

DSG is great on the road, if a bit too easy to drive.  Exactly what some people want.

[EwenS]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I guess the next step is to get hold of a vRS and take it for a decent test drive and see how I like it.  Oh what a chore!!!!!

[Phil-E]

Speed is not the same as fun.  So many people miss this point.

You can go slower and have more fun.

I also believe there is a lot of rewarding feedback and satisfaction from heel and toe, balancing the car etc...

 

DSG is great on the road, if a bit too easy to drive.  Exactly what some people want.

 

Spot on. I've had a hoot driving Polo 1.0s, Felicia 1.3, Pug 306 1.9D... simply because you have to work harder for it and you're not worrying about getting into triple figures so easily etc.

 

In a way that's why I like our car with a DSG. It's quite lazy and will pull itself along quite nicely with a little throttle and the PD 'punch' but still fun to stab the throttle and get it going without all the wheelspin and into 100+ mph teritory so quickly we used to get with the Cordoba PD130.

 

Phil

[pipsyp]

In competition all that matters is time. Who is the fastest. That's why motorsport teams don't fit manuals anymore.

It's also why top level supercars are now moving over too, they are competing on 0-62mph times, 0-100mph times. DSG does away with the weak link here, the meat sack in the driving seat.

Speed is not the same as fun. So many people miss this point.

You can go slower and have more fun.

I also believe there is a lot of rewarding feedback and satisfaction from heel and toe, balancing the car etc...

DSG is great on the road, if a bit too easy to drive. Exactly what some people want.

I do agree with this. Have to say on a perfect bit of road with the right sort of car there is no beating the interaction of a manual geared car.

However DSG is a great compromise for someone who wants an automatic car without the power/drive losses a traditional auto brings to the table; also paddleshifts make a huge contribution to the interaction (in a bit of a playstation-esque manner I will admit).

My problem is that in recent years Ive not driven a normal car that has really nice shift quality and a decent pedel offset; last one was probably a Golf GTI MK5 (seemed to remember than was quite nice), my last Golf was quite notchy, the shift didnt like being rushed and it actually became a bit frustrating when trying to hustle the car along; dont get any such issues in a DSG.

[reverse]

I have DSG with paddles, 99% of the time it sits in D. The 1% when I do actually want to have fun, I switch it to manual or sport and use the paddles. Best of both worlds. Use a lot of engine braking during the icy winter, so I do not understand why people say "its not possible" with a DSG. Maybe I have a broken box

 

No more manuals for me.