Replacing water pump with cambelt ?

[phoneman(ret)]

2008 Octavia Scout

 

Have seen a number of posts ref cambelt change + water pump also.

 

Appears that it is much easier & cheaper to change the water pump when having the cambelt changed.

 

Why change the water pump ? In all the cars I have owned over a 46 year period, I have NEVER had to change a water pump (some of the cars had done well over 100k miles)

 

Are the Octavia pumps prone to failure ? or is this a cynical way of extracting more money from a hard-up motorist ?

 

My Scout is overdue for a cambelt change - since Skoda moved the goal-posts (owners manual says 150k km - Skoda now say 4 years or 80k miles).

 

Is there any warning (sounds) when the cambelt is getting ready for a swap ? The car has developed quite a vibration under heavy acceleration - but it doesn't seem to be coming from the engine, more the back end (Haldex clutch problem ?) Light throttle, no sound ! Also, a while ago, it gained a faint whistle, intermittent, which rises and falls in frequency rather like a distant ambulance siren (turbo ?)

 

Otherwise the cars great !  Have got 32 mpg towing 1200 kg and can get 50 mpg at 70 on motorway.

[Phil-E]

The cambelt should never produce any noise etc. If It does cause a noise in the engine then it's about to snap! lol

 

The whole water pump business is just precautionary. I think some of the original fitted pumps are plastic which can break up so best to change them for the sake of £40.

 

Phil

[silver1011]

Is there any warning (sounds) when the cambelt is getting ready for a swap ? The car has developed quite a vibration under heavy acceleration - but it doesn't seem to be coming from the engine, more the back end (Haldex clutch problem ?) Light throttle, no sound ! Also, a while ago, it gained a faint whistle, intermittent, which rises and falls in frequency rather like a distant ambulance siren (turbo ?)

 

The first warning of a worn cambelt is usually when the pistons hit the valves.

 

The vibration might be a worn rear diff.

 

Has the Haldex oil been changed? It should be changed every 40,000 miles.

 

The turbo whistle is common. Getting louder isn't anything to worry about as turbo's do get a little more audible when they age. As long as it doesn't continue to get louder.

[FriendlyFire]

Four years on the cambelt - fair enough. Then change the tensioner and roller as a precaution (300000km interval in handbook). Then change the water pump - as a precaution.

But why stop there? What about the camshaft seal? Or the harmonic balancer pully? Or the front crankshaft seal?

You can see where I'm going with this. Your water pump is a known good part with no service interval that will cost another ton to change and will involve a water seal being broken and resealed.

Plenty to think about and no real definitive answer.

[Aspman]

There have been a few notes of failure in water pumps. Fixing 'em cost about the same labour as a cambelt change.

For £30 stick in a new one. I did and will again if I keep the car long enough.

[CL53 VRS]

You would be pretty gutted if you had the belt changed and then later on it developed a water leak (which I have seen happen a few times) and had to pay the labour and poss another belt due to coolant contamination,the pump has done as much work as the belt and guides and tensioners so its a very good idea to change it

[gadgetman]

If the water pump needs changing, on VAG engines, the cambelt needs to come off again.

 

Someone recently needed to change a water pump as not done at belt change, and cost them the same price as the cambelt did to do.  For a £40, and as the tech will already have full access to it, it's a no brainer.

 

Cant comment on where other makes put theirs/reliability etc

[MaZvRSTSI]

I am not sure if this applies to VAG but when I got the Vec Cam belt changed they insisted that the one year warranty would not apply if the water pump was not changed....for the sake of £30 or £40 quid, i wouldn't even hesitate in changing the water pump....at the end of the day, for the sake of a few bob and the risk of the pump breaking then my only view is have it changed..... I was also told by my mechanic that if the cam belt is removed they would normally replace it with a new one.....

[skodacarman]

My water pump went at 20k miles.  Got it fixed under warranty & a new cam belt at the same time. 

 

If you've never changed a water pump in all the previous cars you've owned, then your experience is the same as mine.  Welcome to the strange and wonderful world of VAG!

[Rick101]

I understand it due to the risk of the plastic impellers breaking up.

 

Yes it's precautionary, but then so is the cambelt. 

 

Just had mine done and went the whole hog.

[mikey vrs]

When my timing belt was replaced at 4 years (approx 40,000 miles) i had the water pump replaced at the same time,the old pump had no play in the bearing but showed signs of a coolant staining from it. For the small extra additional cost id replace it everytime with a timing belt replacement.

[Defenderben]

This is not specific to VAG....many, many manufactures have the water pump driven directly by the cambelt and so it forms part of the drive system (tensioning) of the cambelt.

So when you have a "full" cambelt change as you should always.

This includes various pulley wheels and a tensioner mechanism, as the water pump pulley is part of the cambelt drive and it has bearings! Which can and do wear, it would be potentially suicidal to leave it in the cam belt drive system!

Cam belt only needs to go out by half a tooth and damage can be caused on some engines.

Look at it like replacing the chain on a motorbike and replacing the back sprocket but not the front sprocket?

You just wouldn't.

This water pump replacement(as precaution) is not new, I know for a fact that Land rover have this on there old 200tdi engine from back in the very late 80's.

There are many others.

Not being rude but in 46 years you may not have known the water pump was or may have been changed on a previous car you had a cambelt replaced on. Not unless you change the cambelt yourself then you should know.

No one is ripping you off and for the sake of about £30/£40 is it worth potentially wrecking an engine which would be around £6k to replace?

No brainer

Edited 31 August, 2013 by Defenderben

[gadgetman]

Is it that some makes include it automatically in the cambelt cost/change?

[MaZvRSTSI]

I think it all depends on the mechanic..... I mean here is a theory.... You have 4 road springs on all cars. 1 road spring is warn down and needs replacing and the other are of the same age and millage. Now you visit a mechanic and he recommends that all 4 are changed...due to the age of them. You visit another mechanic and he says just replace one. You get it changed and that's your bill for labour and hardware done. Another road spring goes and you need to change that one.... Now you have been charged for labour twice.

My point of view is that you always run the risk of the other parts breaking of the same system, age or mileage. Would you replace one shock or all four.....I know what i would personally do....

[Defenderben]

Is it that some makes include it automatically in the cambelt cost/change?

Yes, many garages will replace the water pump automatically as part of the cambelt replacement package.

Always worth asking at the time of getting quotes if they include the water pump.

My mate, who is a mechanic does not offer the option,it is automatically done if the water pump forms part of the cambelt drive.

This is also insurance for him, last thing you need is to replace a cambelt then a few thousand miles later or sooner the pump fails/seizes and causes the snapping of a belt. Too many complications to get into.

Regards

[07 vRS Taxi]

Basically the timing belt drives the water pump so if you're going to go through the expense/hassle of changing the timing belt then you might aswell change the water pump incase it fails.

[Defenderben]

With Mazvrstfsi; In that situation I always change shocks/springs in pairs not all 4.

So if a front shock/spring went you replace both front shocks/springs and same if it was a rear, replace both rears.

Regards

[MaZvRSTSI]

Agreed but i would certainly change the water pump no matter what.....my mechanic refuses service if they decline the water pump change...he now just includes it as part of the service....

[trundlenut]

when I did the cambelt on my old mkI Octy, it added about 15 mins to do the water pump and was not much cost wise (though it was an exchange unit), so it's too easy not to do.

[nickguzzi]

The rumble/vibration under hard acceleration could be the dual mass flywheel starting to show its about to make a bid for freedom.

The water pump is nowadays part of the cam drive system.  In the Old Days, pushrod motors had the water pump as part of the generator drive, it was comparatively easy to get at, and the consequences of failure were usually lots of noise, a water leak or two, and a trip to the Quinton Hazell shop.  A couple of hours on a Sunday morning, and there you go.  Nowadays, the pump packs up, the cam belt comes off and destroys your engine.  Planned Preventative Maintainence.  You know it can happen, do it now before the costs escalate.

 

If you don't think that is progress, then you have forgotten how bad cars were in general 46 years ago.  When I started in the motor industry in 1966, 80,000miles was considered a huge milage, and the vehicle would likely be looking for at least a top end overhaul, but more likely a re-bore if not a total rebuild.  

My employer thought it ok to sell cars with 24 grease fittings, which needed attention every 3,000 miles, and everything still wore out.  Cars without heaters, let alone radios.  Not forgetting the amount of fuel used at a much lower average speed.  The noise and vibration.  No power anything.  Rest stops necessary on jouneys of 100 miles.  Sleep most of the next day.

I (like many others on here I suspect) could go outside now, get in the car and drive to the south of France without even thinking about it.  Or feeling the need to do any additional checks or preparation on the vehicle.

I did fill up this afternoon, so I would be well past Paris, perhaps closer to Lyon, before I had to think about stopping for fuel.  I regularly drive to Frankfurt - just over 950kms, average speed 60+mph on the computer, fuel consumption 48/49mpg.  If I wanted to pootle, I could effortlessly reverse those numbers.  I am definately not a candidate for an economy run, many would easily improve my figures. 

The modern motor vehicle is so vastly, far and away, hands down superior to its predecessor of 40 years ago, not just in the crude mechanicals as I outlined above, but in the comfort, effortlessness, ease of use and general niceness of a place to be.  Not to mention safety or enviromental issues.  Toys and gadgets in abundance, some even useful.

[FatblokeVRS]

What kind of price am I looking at for the timing belt and water pump change? Mine is due in the next few months.

[@Lee]

What kind of price am I looking at for the timing belt and water pump change? Mine is due in the next few months.

ECP have the belt kit on offer at the mo, £68 instead of almost £100. Water pump £23 - £31.

[silver1011]

What kind of price am I looking at for the timing belt and water pump change? Mine is due in the next few months.

 

Max price you should ever pay is £349 for the cambelt plus another £100 for the waterpump.

 

This Skoda's national pricing policy so should be the absolute MAXIMUM you pay...

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/service-and-maintenance/national-pricing/maintenance

Edited 31 August, 2013 by silver1011

[MaZvRSTSI]

The info on the Skoda website is very useful about how much a service would be.....thank you silver1011, I was thinking of using my mechanic but from what i see there, I would not be paying a fortune.....and they would be VAG parts....

[FatblokeVRS]

Cheers for the info guys. It is still a bit annoying to need the timing belt done at 44,000 miles.