Optimal first oil change?

[skovirg]

Car manufacturers make lots of money by completing oil changes. If they could justify telling you that you need to do them more frequently then they would. As they can't, they don't. Stick to the schedule would be my advice.

[classic]

Car manufacturers make lots of money by completing oil changes. If they could justify telling you that you need to do them more frequently then they would. As they can't, they don't. Stick to the schedule would be my advice.

Exactly. In fact if it was any kind of issue, which it's not, the dealers would be pushing extra oil changes like it was GAP insurance.

If you are worried about 2 micron particles you would need to ensure it was drained at the optimum temp, and every drop came out.

Edited 9 April, 2014 by classic

[philhoward]

They tell you to have an oil changes as little as needed to ensure the car lasts long enough.  Servicing is a fair chunk of lease costs for businesses so anything that drops a few hundred quid a year on the cost of a car can make the difference between a particular model being at the top (cheapest) of a company's list or lower down.

 

How else does one explain how service intervals jumped from 6000 miles to 12,000 miles in the mid-90's on many cars with NO changes to either the engine or oil?  Since then, better oils are specified and engine manufacturing is better but if mileages increased at the same rate as technology, we'd be having 50k intervals..

 

A manufacturer makes a car to make money - not to last a long time.  It only has to last as long as the warranty (being cynical)...

[Neily03]

A manufacturer makes a car to make money - not to last a long time.  It only has to last as long as the warranty (being cynical)...

 

What a load of rubbish!  Car manufactures can't survive without a good reputation and making cars that fail when the warranty runs out would be disastrous for them.

 

What next man didn't land on the moon?

[iDENTITi]

The early oil change stems from when surface finishes weren't as good as they are now on engine internals.

Also performance engine builders change oil early due to usually using "break in" oil and to check for undue wear and particulates in the oil.

Basically, you can change oil earlier if you want, but you have to bear in mind the detergents in oil break down, and too higher amounts can also cause problems.

[philhoward]

What a load of rubbish!  Car manufactures can't survive without a good reputation and making cars that fail when the warranty runs out would be disastrous for them.

 

What next man didn't land on the moon?

Nothing to do with a man on the moon.  The cynical comment was a bit tongue in cheek but if they made their cars to last for 50 years, they wouldn't need to sell as many.  Each car has a design lifespan - probably about 10-15 years at a guess for mass manufacturers like VAG.  Why would they want to engineer a car (with the expected increase in cost) that won't break down for 25 years/300,000 miles when people won't pay the extra for it?

[h3srr]

Hi

As matter of interest, which oil and how many litre's do Skoda recommend for a vRS TDI??

As also think I will get a filter and oil change at 1000 miles. If you plan on keeping your car for a while it's best to aire on the side of caution. Well that's what I think.

Steve

[philhoward]

It won't hurt but IMHO it's unnecessary.

 

Spec and quantity should be in the handbook?  If you don't have the car yet, the handbook is downloadable from the Skoda website - http://new.skoda-auto.com/en/mini-apps/owners-manuals/octavia

[skovirg]

They tell you to have an oil changes as little as needed to ensure the car lasts long enough.

 

A manufacturer makes a car to make money - not to last a long time.  It only has to last as long as the warranty (being cynical)...

 

Not so philhoward. If cars packed up soon after warranty no one would buy new ones as their resale value would be tiny.

 

Also, have you considered why oil change intervals are the same whether you take a 3, 4 or 5 year warranty? Also, how do you explain the oil change recommendations of some Vauxhall being set at 20k even though they offer a lifetime warranty?

[philhoward]

Who wants to pick up the tab for a DSG gearbox or (in the case of the Fabia vRS) a twincharger engine out of warranty?  No-one, really!

 

The majority of sales are fleet sales, and they only look at one thing - the bottom line based on their expected ownership.  Agreed - if they are likely to worth the going scrap rate after 5 years, then it won't help residual values one bit.  The manufacturers LIABILITY ends at the end of the warranty period - be it 3,4,5 or 7 years.  IN the case of Vauxhall, it applies to the original purchaser of the vehicle from new (or certainly did when I looked at it).  That probably only covers 0.5-1% of sales (if that) so a great marketing ploy IMHO.  Great for you if you intend to buy a new Vauxhall and keep it for 10 or 20 years.  No good if you buy a pre-registered one from a Car Supermarket though...

 

They can do 20k oil change intervals because oil technology and the increased build quality/accuracy of engines allows them to nowadays.  It is in the manufacturers interests to do so - and if they could guarantee a sensible life from the engine with a 50k change interval, they would.

 

I can only name a few manufacturers who were in business to build cars rather than building cars to make money.  Aston Martin (in the David Brown days) and Bugatti with the Veyron (given VW used it as an engineering exercise) for two.  It used to be the case that GM lost money on the cars, but made money on the finance; not sure if that's still the case or not.

[classic]

They can do 20k oil change intervals because oil technology and the increased build quality/accuracy of engines allows them to nowadays. It is in the manufacturers interests to do so - and if they could guarantee a sensible life from the engine with a 50k change interval, they would.

And that is the answer to the original question.

[Chris_55]

I've a 2012 B7 Passat BMT with the 2.0 TDI engine, I think this is similar to the one in the Octavia.

 

The first oil change occured, under variable servicing, at 2 years & 13,000 miles, the engine had not needed any oil added before this first oil change.

 

I noticed during regular oil level checking the oil appeared to be getting 'thicker' as it aged judging by the look if it on the dipstick.

 

Following the oil change fuel consumption reduced by around 10%.

 

Anyone any experience of this?

[Aknedude]

A week ago i had the oppotunity to see an oil test taken from a 2 month old car. I was in shock, the oil was so damaged that the test result said "oil change immediadly" this test made me think a little. After this, my car will have the first oilchange before 5000 km.

[andyvee]

For those thinking of keeping the car long term, go with fixed intervals at 9600 miles. Variable is cheaper in the short run, but the oil does degrade and highly stressed components will wear quicker. My PD140 did 180k on variable, but it eat 2 turbos in the process. The turbo remanufacturers I used for the second turbo said they see a significantly higher turbo failure rate on VAG diesels on variable servicing.

[neiln]

Thanks andy, that is useful to know.

 

Oil degradation depends on many things.... Total use (mileage) is clearly a factor, age is too but I think far less so.  Type of use such as short runs or long ( which get oil to higher temperatures for longer), allowing turbos to cool for a moment before sending off  are big factors on oil condition.  It's just that only mileage and time are easy to track that they are used to trigger the oil changes.

 

Akendude, do you know what the test was measuring?  Viscosity, impurity levels, chemical composition/acidity?

[Aknedude]

Thanks andy, that is useful to know.

 

Oil degradation depends on many things.... Total use (mileage) is clearly a factor, age is too but I think far less so.  Type of use such as short runs or long ( which get oil to higher temperatures for longer), allowing turbos to cool for a moment before sending off  are big factors on oil condition.  It's just that only mileage and time are easy to track that they are used to trigger the oil changes.

 

Akendude, do you know what the test was measuring?  Viscosity, impurity levels, chemical composition/acidity?

 

They have tested the oil for everything, The guy that showed me the result worked at Q8 he was running some test on diff cars, to see what damages Long term oil service does on new engines.

He has "just for the fun" checked his own cars oil. and that was the result i saw. everyone can make that test with motoroil, the price  is 2500,- KR - 250£. The one main thing that destroys the oil in a new engine,

is all the tiny bits of metal that floats around in an engine when it's been broken inn.

 

So guys change the oil after 5000,- km the first time. 

[Web Ferret]

For those thinking of keeping the car long term, go with fixed intervals at 9600 miles. Variable is cheaper in the short run, but the oil does degrade and highly stressed components will wear quicker. My PD140 did 180k on variable, but it eat 2 turbos in the process. The turbo remanufacturers I used for the second turbo said they see a significantly higher turbo failure rate on VAG diesels on variable servicing.

My experience too.

 

I had a turbo fail at 70k miles. Indy garage who fixed it said avoid variable if you want a car to last.

[Chunkstar]

My logic says do every ten thou if your keeping the car for over 3 years as people say turbos and other things if you find a local nice garage buy the filter from skoda keep reciepts and make sure garage put on reciept oil used ,you in the long run can save a fortune also change fuel filter every tine,the only needs to be some crap or ****ty fuel and sensors or god forbid fuel pump,injector problems and a £25 fuel filter will the least of your worries

I have done over a million miles in transits over 13 years touch wood no turbo or fuel injector,pump issues services every 10k

If however only going to keep 2-3 years then do what they tell you ,my s5 had no service for two years 16 k miles I however think its bad as next owner has a car that's not been looked at for two years,and I drove that car hard !

[mark999]

Nothing to do with a man on the moon.  The cynical comment was a bit tongue in cheek but if they made their cars to last for 50 years, they wouldn't need to sell as many.  Each car has a design lifespan - probably about 10-15 years at a guess for mass manufacturers like VAG.  Why would they want to engineer a car (with the expected increase in cost) that won't break down for 25 years/300,000 miles when people won't pay the extra for it?

 

IIRC Honest John claims the design life of a car is 7 years. I hope mine last a bit longer!

Edited 15 April, 2014 by mark999

[philhoward]

The design cycle of the average car (model) is about 7 years - i.e. 7 years before its replacement comes along.

 

The expected life is probably 10-12 years, on average.  I guess that's the point where repairs outweigh the value?