Why didn't the vRS sell better?

[BossFox]

Which brings me back to my original point lol! The system is so good that you can't actually tell that any added sounds are coming from the audio speakers :-)

 

Exactly the way it should be.

New GT-R has anti-noise through the speakers to remove harsh road noise and other unwanted things that get in the way of the engine noise.

 

Works the same way, you'd never know.

[fabiamk2SE]

Exactly the way it should be.

New GT-R has anti-noise through the speakers to remove harsh road noise and other unwanted things that get in the way of the engine noise.

Works the same way, you'd never know.

Oh really?

I know theyre too quiet as standard. Need a Y pipe fitting dont they! Sound miles better after that.

[BossFox]

Oh really?

I know theyre too quiet as standard. Need a Y pipe fitting dont they! Sound miles better after that.

 

You are talking about the exhaust, I am talking about overall cabin noise.

MY14 has the anti-noise as all previous years are quite noisy inside at any decent speed.

A lot of it is tyre noise.

MY14 is way nicer on a longer trip inside.

[fabiamk2SE]

You are talking about the exhaust, I am talking about overall cabin noise.

MY14 has the anti-noise as all previous years are quite noisy inside at any decent speed.

A lot of it is tyre noise.

MY14 is way nicer on a longer trip inside.

Yeah i had noticed a lot of road noise. I guess due to the massively wide tyres amongst other things

Must be much more pleasant now theyve done that!

[logiclee]

Quite a few cars coming with anti-noise. Very clever, analyse sound waves you don't want to hear and play the opposite sound wave through the speakers to cancel out the noise.

 

Lee 

[Ally_bassman]

Surprised car manufacturers haven't jumped on this sooner. The technology has been around for a long time and the theory of sound waves cancelling themselves out even longer!!

[Ootohere]

For those that are OK with a 3 door, want some performance, do want an Autobox,  and good handling,

but dont want to drive a BMW Series 1, they can always go for a BMW MINI.

 

[tonyfvrs]

It's because DSG is perceived as automatic and automatics don't excite UK drivers.  Quite rightly; torque limiter automatics are awful because the engine is not directly connected to the driving wheels, it is connected by a chamber of rotating oil (very roughly).

DSG is an automatic means of changing a manual gearbox and is much better at doing it than any stick change.

Until motorists are enlightened that this is the case, VAG will struggle to sell DSG cars in the UK.

And let's face it you can let DSG do it's own thing, use the stick or in the case of vRS use the paddles.  

I would not buy a DSG equipped car unless it had paddle shifters.

[Ootohere]

Personally i am a fan of the DSG, and can only drive Automatics, but never use the paddles other than to try them out.

I change manually to do down shifts using the gear stick, and the odd upshifts, when playing, or getting a move on,

but up shifts are mostly left to be done  for me in a Twincharger with it in 'D',  & changes done by the gearbox.

 

I drove a Mk3 MINI Automatic with optional Paddles, and liked them, but just to try.

When testing out auto BRZ & a GT86, i actually used the paddles on them for a while, and they were good on the traditional auto box they have.

The paddles on the Clio RS Turbo 200 were terrible, as was the gearbox.

 

This article is an interesting take on different opinions.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/dsg-or-manual

Edited 5 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Sparkly]

Surprised car manufacturers haven't jumped on this sooner. The technology has been around for a long time and the theory of sound waves cancelling themselves out even longer!!

 

I travel A LOT with work probably a minimum of 200k air miles a year, so I have a healthy interest in noise cancelling tech for use on planes.

 

I only have experience of headphone tech but the principal is the same, the noise cancelling can however cause quite a nauseating sense of pressure in some people so it is a little bit marmite (in headphones)

 

Might have put some car manufacturers off when on many cars with standard width tyres acoustic insulation can achieve very good reduction with a more basic solution.  A GT-R with huge tyre widths and an interest in weight control may favour this tech,

[Sparkly]

It's because DSG is perceived as automatic and automatics don't excite UK drivers.  Quite rightly; torque limiter automatics are awful because the engine is not directly connected to the driving wheels, it is connected by a chamber of rotating oil (very roughly).

DSG is an automatic means of changing a manual gearbox and is much better at doing it than any stick change.

Until motorists are enlightened that this is the case, VAG will struggle to sell DSG cars in the UK.

And let's face it you can let DSG do it's own thing, use the stick or in the case of vRS use the paddles.  

I would not buy a DSG equipped car unless it had paddle shifters.

 

Don't discount the fact that for some people DSG also represents a fear factor that kept outside of warranty IF (only if, but it does happen) the DSG has a serious issue the cost to repair/replace is many times more than on a manual.

 

I loved the DSG but even I have to admit that on the odd days when the clutch pack sounded a bit noisy going over a speed bump or similar I would get a squeaky bum worrying if it was a repair bill.  It wasn't and was very reliable, fun and economical but the thought was always there.

 

I'm back in a manual now, stalling at every set of lights when I forget to depress the clutch

[Ally_bassman]

 

I only have experience of headphone tech but the principal is the same, the noise cancelling can however cause quite a nauseating sense of pressure in some people so it is a little bit marmite (in headphones)

 

 

That is true, if you have ever been in a anechoic chamber (Zero background noise) you will know how nauseating a lack of sound can be!

 

In a car it would be a slightly different experience to closed headphones as you will still have background noise to give your ears and brain some perspective. (Breathing / clothes rustling etc) The main use IMO would be to reduce road / wind and depending on the type of car engine noise.

[Brian69]

Don't discount the fact that for some people DSG also represents a fear factor that kept outside of warranty IF (only if, but it does happen) the DSG has a serious issue the cost to repair/replace is many times more than on a manual.

I loved the DSG but even I have to admit that on the odd days when the clutch pack sounded a bit noisy going over a speed bump or similar I would get a squeaky bum worrying if it was a repair bill. It wasn't and was very reliable, fun and economical but the thought was always there.

I'm back in a manual now, stalling at every set of lights when I forget to depress the clutch

I was a DSG sceptic till I drove one - now I love it and the vRS for me was a chance to own an almost new car with DSG at a budget price.

[dieselV6]

+1 for Sparkly's comment #186

 

So how many 100k+ mile car DSG owners on this thread? I'm still trying to find people strongly recommending DSG who actually felt confident enough to put their own money into long term and long mileage ownership of one. It appears most DSG recommendees get rid of their cars well before 100k mile mark.

 

Few people question the convenience and the road capabilities of DSG boxes. However, when it comes to total cost of ownership, the picture is not so rosy.

[Brian69]

+1 for Sparkly's comment #186

 

So how many 100k+ mile car DSG owners on this thread? I'm still trying to find people strongly recommending DSG who actually felt confident enough to put their own money into long term and long mileage ownership of one. It appears most DSG recommendees get rid of their cars well before 100k mile mark.

 

Few people question the convenience and the road capabilities of DSG boxes. However, when it comes to total cost of ownership, the picture is not so rosy.

I certainly wouldn't own one (a car with DSG) without a warranty. I actually have quite a bit of confidence in the Fabia DSG (I really shouldn't tempt fate by saying that...) but if something does go wrong there's a strong possibility the bill could be painful or terminal. That's why I don't mind so much taking a chance with a vRS, but not a Golf GTi with DSG (in the event of it going nuclear).

[logiclee]

For those that are OK with a 3 door, want some performance, do want an Autobox,  and good handling,

but dont want to drive a BMW Series 1, they can always go for a BMW MINI.

 

 

Strange though how BMW have kept the mini with a traditional 6 speed auto when it's own forthcoming FWD models mated to the same engines will have the option of an 8 speed auto from Aisin.

 

Lee

[logiclee]

It's because DSG is perceived as automatic and automatics don't excite UK drivers.  Quite rightly; torque limiter automatics are awful because the engine is not directly connected to the driving wheels, it is connected by a chamber of rotating oil (very roughly).

DSG is an automatic means of changing a manual gearbox and is much better at doing it than any stick change.

Until motorists are enlightened that this is the case, VAG will struggle to sell DSG cars in the UK.

And let's face it you can let DSG do it's own thing, use the stick or in the case of vRS use the paddles.  

I would not buy a DSG equipped car unless it had paddle shifters.

 

You obviously haven't driven the latest conventional torque converter auto's that can lock up in every gear and outperform the manual for performance and economy.

I own a 6 speed wet clutch dsg, a 7 speed dry clutch dsg and a zf8hp conventional auto. The ZF is the best box.

 

Here's what the biggest petrol head car jurno Chris Harris thinks.

 

So, component of the year is: The ZF 8HP transmission. (Allows the applause to die down.)

If memory serves, this automatic transmission first appeared in the new Audi A8 - the one that looks like an A4, and an A6. Or was it the new 7 Series? Offering eight forward gears and weighing around 90kg this flagship product from ZF looked like it would perform the usual role: appear in the flagship German saloons and maybe percolate down into the fancier powertrains of the 5 Series class. This it did. And it was always absolutely excellent.

Then it appeared in the Panamera Diesel because PDK wouldn't work with the oil burner. It was miles more pleasant than PDK. This was a surprise.

And now this year it has appeared in a BMW 1 Series. In the M135i the ZF is so quick and intuitive I had to re-record a section of film because I had assumed it was a dual-clutch system. It will upshift in 200 milliseconds and then drop into BMW's Eco-Pro mode for some fuel saving. It's the first gearbox that appears to have the same breadth of aspirations, in terms of performance and economy, as the average car enthusiast's brain.

That Porsche can make it behave so smoothly in a Panamera, and BMW so aggressively in the M135i proves how remarkably flexible the unit is. Furthermore, it always seems to extract incredible efficiency wherever it is used.

A few years ago, in the midst of the double-clutch DSG boom- when everything fast was moving in that direction - I asked someone from a German car manufacturer if he thought all cars would soon be using such transmissions. He grinned. "Just wait till you see the next generation of automatic." He was right.

Chris

[Ootohere]

The New Jeep Renegade will have the option of a 9 speed auto.

[logiclee]

The New Jeep Renegade will have the option of a 9 speed auto.

 

Range Rover already use it in the Evoque as do Jeep in the new Cherokee. Fiat will be using it next year too.

 

ZF do the ZF8HP that fits cars with longtudinal engine layouts with torque rating to 1000NM and that's used in longitudinal models from the BMW 116i to a Rolls Royce Phantom.

 

The new nine speed ZF9HP fits cars with transverse engine layouts with torque rating to 480N.

 

BMW did trial the ZF9HP in the Mini and 2 Series Active tourer but decided on the Aisin 6 speed and 8 Speed boxes for transverse engines instead.

 

No word on why that was as BMW's current commercial dealings for autoboxe's has been with ZF but they've switched to Aisin for the new FWD models?

 

Lee

[Ally_bassman]

I'm not worried about owning a DSG box out of warranty, it's not exactly new technology for VAG. When did the first DSG box come out, mid 00's?? In that time it's been developed and tested in the real world through the perils of owners.

I guess with most things related to the MK2 VRS, you either have a guddun' or a baddun'

[logiclee]

I'm not worried about owning a DSG box out of warranty, it's not exactly new technology for VAG. When did the first DSG box come out, mid 00's?? In that time it's been developed and tested in the real world through the perils of owners.

I guess with most things related to the MK2 VRS, you either have a guddun' or a baddun'

 

For transverse models...

 

2003 for the 6 speed wet clutch, 2008 for the 7 speed dry clutch, 2010 for the 7 speed wetclutch.

 

Never had a problem with 6 speed wetclutch models but our 1.2tsi Fabia with the 7 speed dry clutch had to have a new clutch pack at 13000 miles.

 

Lee

[tonyfvrs]

Don't discount the fact that for some people DSG also represents a fear factor that kept outside of warranty IF (only if, but it does happen) the DSG has a serious issue the cost to repair/replace is many times more than on a manual.

 

I loved the DSG but even I have to admit that on the odd days when the clutch pack sounded a bit noisy going over a speed bump or similar I would get a squeaky bum worrying if it was a repair bill.  It wasn't and was very reliable, fun and economical but the thought was always there.

 

I'm back in a manual now, stalling at every set of lights when I forget to depress the clutch

I forgot to say I change my cars every 3 years, so don't have huge repair concerns.  I am now in my fifth year of Fabia vRS driving and have had no problems.