As I said before, McHonda should have just used this year to develop and not care about penalties.

That's exactly what they are doing martin,

 

they're throwing new engines at it every five minutes, happy in the knowledge that they're only getting put back 1 or 2 rows on the grid at each race.

Edited 4 September, 201510 yr by camelspyyder

Last years speed trap figures just before the Parabolica.  (Montoya clocked over 370 a decade ago.)

 

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/championship/event_report/documents/speedtrap.pdf

 

Race Speed Trap

FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D’ITALIA 2014 - Monza

POS     NO   DRIVER                KPH   TIME OF DAY  

1             3   D. RICCIARDO     362.1  15:03:05

2           77   V . BOTTAS         360.8   14:23:38

3           44   L. HAMILTON       358.6   14:17:27

4          25   J. VERGNE           357.6   15:22:44

5          19   F. MASSA             356.5   14:09:58

6          22   J. BUTTON           355.1   14:51:05

7         26    D. KVYAT             354.2   15:12:13

8         11    S. PEREZ             353.1   15:21:04

9         20   K. MAGNUSSEN    349.2   15:18:01

10       14   F. ALONSO            347.0   14:16:03

 

Just watched the F1 Show on Sky, actually quite informative for a change.

 

Red Bull and others basically not going for qualifying hardly at all due to so many penalties, shame for the weekend.

 

Nice to hear the F1 show use New Order's new music "Restless" (pre-release track of album later this month) instead of the over-used tax dodging Gary Barlow's "Drive".

 

 

https://youtu.be/8c_3Afx9ZGE 

That's exactly what they are doing martin,

 

they're throwing new engines at it every five minutes, happy in the knowledge that they're only getting put back 1 or 2 rows on the grid at each race.

But they didn't do this from the very beginning. They underestimated how far ahead everyone else was

An unbridgeable gap IMO.  Mercedes started on their engine in 2010.  Hamilton was certainly convinced they were way ahead in 2012 when he signed up to drive it.

Edited 5 September, 201510 yr by camelspyyder

No chance of rain tomorrow and probably only one tyre stop. Ferrari were competitive in qualifying so it's down to the start and then their race pace. Lewis usefully quicker than Rosberg.      

Rosberg was running the old engine, unfortunately for him.

 

So the improved Ferrari motor is already quicker than what Mercedes had at the last race.

So many penalties, the Marussias are both starting on Row 7 using the anaemic '14 customer Ferrari.

I think Ferrari could have been fairly close at Monza, not so much now. :sun:  

 

What do you think now?

What do you think now?

 

All to play for  :sun: If one of the Ferrari's get a good start it could be a close race. Will Lewis's new engine last the distance ? I only have bbc so might be looking for a better option tomorrow to watch race live.    

No chance of rain tomorrow and probably only one tyre stop. Ferrari were competitive in qualifying so it's down to the start and then their race pace. Lewis usefully quicker than Rosberg.     

 

Shame no rain.   Still had my phone set on Milan weather from a few weeks ago and they were talking of a chance of rain a couple of days ago but now no chance in the PM.

 

They were saying on the F1 show, Anthony D I think, that it is not the Merc engine ie the internal combustion engine, but the Merc electric motor ie energy recovery and electric motors that is the difference. Hence the top speeds not being that different ie 220-ish for Merc and Ferraris, 213 for Renault and Honda.  Might even be close in the race as Ricardo was doing well over 225 in the race last year,  Perez was quick too last year and this year ie fastest thru speed trap but not up to Montoya 230 mph of a decade ago.   Apparently true top speed of an F1 car is 255 mph as show by a BAR car of a decade ago (no wing and special gearbox).

 

Shame no rain.   Still had my phone set on Milan weather from a few weeks ago and they were talking of a chance of rain a couple of days ago but now no chance in the PM.

 

They were saying on the F1 show, Anthony D I think, that it is not the Merc engine ie the internal combustion engine, but the Merc electric motor ie energy recovery and electric motors that is the difference. Hence the top speeds not being that different ie 220-ish for Merc and Ferraris, 213 for Renault and Honda.  Might even be close in the race as Ricardo was doing well over 225 in the race last year,  Perez was quick too last year and this year ie fastest thru speed trap but not up to Montoya 230 mph of a decade ago.   Apparently true top speed of an F1 car is 255 mph as show by a BAR car of a decade ago (no wing and special gearbox).

 

There is still no point in looking at who's fastest through the speed traps, it's the overall lap times that really count. at Monza there are fast straights, but if you drop back a few tenths in the corners and chicanes you won't get close enough on the straights to overtake. As for Ricciardo he's starting 19th on the grid, in fact the four Renault engined cars fill the last four grid slots and next season it's looking more likely that Red Bull will have Merc engines in 2017 or possible in 2016.

I doubt any of them got a tow in qualifying - unless their team mates helped out - in which case the race top speeds will be different from the quali ones.(when overtaking)

 

Last years Ferrari (Manor) is shockingly slow - but maybe they haven't been able to afford to develop a low downforce aero kit.

There is still no point in looking at who's fastest through the speed traps, it's the overall lap times that really count. at Monza there are fast straights, but if you drop back a few tenths in the corners and chicanes you won't get close enough on the straights to overtake. As for Ricciardo he's starting 19th on the grid, in fact the four Renault engined cars fill the last four grid slots and next season it's looking more likely that Red Bull will have Merc engines in 2017 or possible in 2016.

 

The point is looking at the data to see where the Mercedes is quicker and the data shows that the Mercedes-Mercedes is not fastest down the straight and with the known handling of the fine handling/cornering cars like the Lotus, Red Bull and Torro Rosso appear to be at least, if not better handling than the Mercedes but where the Merc does score, so the data shows, it is a better hybrid system which results in it powering out of the corners quicker.  

 

McLarens, RBs and TRs did not bother will qualifying as normal because of penalties they were having to take and concentrated on race setup. Shame this is how it was and many want to see a change the qualifying directly relates grip poistion and if they are penalties they directly affect points rather than spoiling the two days of qualifying as it has for this Monza.  I was in Milan for the Hungary race and visited the Ferrari shop that afternoon and they were buzzing and hopefully we can have one of two Ferraris on the podium and preferable on the top steps to make it interesting.

Illegal tyre pressures !!

Illegal tyre pressures !!

 

Would explain Merc wanting Lewis to push at the end, if they expect a time penalty.  

Not surprisingly other teams are pushing for a disqualification. Lewis had one tyre 0.3 psi under required pressure.  

http://www.fia.com/news/hamilton-wins-monza-technical-issue-puts-victory-doubt

 

 

An that is on the FIA website not just a jorno one!

Would explain Merc wanting Lewis to push at the end, if they expect a time penalty.  

 

Would not have made any difference I understand as the pressure is measured electronically as it come out of the blanket and goes on the car.  One of Nico's tyres was over 1 psi low, not that it mattered to him in the end though. 

Would not have made any difference I understand as the pressure is measured electronically as it come out of the blanket and goes on the car.  One of Nico's tyres was over 1 psi low, not that it mattered to him in the end though. 

 

I am thinking Merc knew about investigation before end of race and tried to get Lewis as far up the road as possible, It would help if time penalty given now. 

Edited 6 September, 201510 yr by Laurie61

Williams had completely different types of tyre on recently and were not penalised. 

If running the tyre pressure to low, ie as set by Pirelli, then it is a safety issue and not just a time penalty should be forth-coming but expunging his result completely.

 

Red Bull use to run deliberately low pressure ie as low as 16 psi I gather, but the requirement to run at 19.5 at least is for that driver, other drivers, the marshalls and the crowd's safety.  Below tolerence, straight ban.

 

The could have easily put in 20 psi and probably still easily won the race, used and put in less less fuel as well instead of risking everyone's life.

 

If I was Lewis I would be fuming that they continued to risk his life and not even tell him what the issue was.  Running low tyre pressure is dangerous on the road and the track, even my Dacia-Renault has low tyre pressure monitors!  

To be fair, as both Merc's started with non valid tyre pressures, Rosberg would have to be penalised as well as Lewis. If they strip Lewis of win will they ban Rosberg from next race ?

Result to stand I gather.

 

Temperatures have to be measured at Standard Temperature and Pressure (STP) ie usually 15c (288K) and  1 bar atmospheric or correlated to it.

 

Sounds like Lewis's car was given a tolerance in that the discrepancy was measured at slightly below STP and therefore has been given tolerance.  

 

Presumably the use nitrogen to fill the tyre or dry air as is the regulation choice I have heard.

 

Sure everyone else will be pushing the lower pressure limit now and risking tyre explosion.