Warning - New Stealth Tax on Motorists! Coming to a motorway near you..........

[bealine]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-30841666

[Ally_bassman]

Not much sympathy. I'm no saint, and like most people, exceed the speed limit from time to time.

 

But it's simple, don't speed. Especially on a section of road that have speed camera warning signs!

[Ant FR]

not sure how it's stealth??????? There are whopping great signs that tell you they are there.  Also anyone against this section needs their head testing it's one of the biggest improvements they have made to the M25 bar the barrier removal at the crossing.  That section of road is a lot easier to use now thanks to proper traffic management.  Lets just hope they take my idea on of banning lorries from all roads when i am driving.  

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Ban lorries during daylight hour's. I'm all for that and I think they do in Austria. Cut congestion and deaths instantly and make it easier for the lorries.

[Machpoint005]

Stealth Voluntary taxation, same as 'poseur' plates. You don't have to pay it!

[mdon]

I can't see the issue with this. If you break the limit be prepared to have the punishment, simple as. Plus there's sogns, what more do people want?

You don't here people complaining that a robber was caught on CCTV robbing an old lady because they didn't know there was a camera watching!

[bealine]

not sure how it's stealth??????? There are whopping great signs that tell you they are there.

 

Not with the new ones on the M25 they aren't!

 

Read the article - they are housed in plain grey boxes, no road markings no signs nothing.   They are not even owned by the police, but by the Highways Agency which is farcical in itself because they have some very dangerous drivers!

Edited 20 January, 2015 by bealine

[bealine]

I can't see the issue with this. If you break the limit be prepared to have the punishment, simple as. Plus there's sogns, what more do people want?

You don't here people complaining that a robber was caught on CCTV robbing an old lady because they didn't know there was a camera watching!

 

Motorway Speed Limits are not democratic - they can't be when over 80% of drivers disobey them.   The 70 mph limit was introduced during a fuel crisis and never rescinded.

[stever750]

Motorway Speed Limits are not democratic - they can't be when over 80% of drivers disobey them.   The 70 mph limit was introduced during a fuel crisis and never rescinded.

And it's widely acknowledged that 80 is the policed limit, unless you're driving like a tit, or there are temporary limits in place. i'm no saint either, but the law is the law. Don't brake it and you won't be "taxed". Better still, lobby MPs, join action groups to raise the limit legally.

[BJM]

   The 70 mph limit was introduced during a fuel crisis and never rescinded.

Not true - it was introduced in 1965 as a trial to reduce road deaths on M/Ways, kept being extended as a trial until 1967 when it was made permanent.

 

The "fuel crisis" limit was 50 mph introduced in 1973 (God, that was truly boring, and every County Force with a M/Way on their patch put just about every car out to enforce it - when they weren't breaking up fights at filling stations) but it only lasted about 3 or 4 moths and reverted to 70 mph.

[stever750]

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29362

 

Nothing new really then. It's been known for a long time that if there is a display on an overhead gantry in a managed zone, you know the camera is active! No display = camera off, or is at the moment.

[Brimma]

Motorway Speed Limits are not democratic - they can't be when over 80% of drivers disobey them. The 70 mph limit was introduced during a fuel crisis and never rescinded.

So if 80% of the population decide to go out and steal, the Theft Act is undemocratic

Seems we're only a few steps away from anarchy

[skomaz]

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29362

 

Nothing new really then. It's been known for a long time that if there is a display on an overhead gantry in a managed zone, you know the camera is active! No display = camera off, or is at the moment.

 

And therein lies the worry - that they will be used in the future when the display is off, despite this not currently being the case.  Easy to arrange and woud result in millions of motorists being fined with the commensurate increase in Govt coffers without any descretion being applied whatsoever - a simple speed cut-off.

[littleade]

It seems rather straight forward to me. Speed where there's cameras and expect to be caught - it was just a question of time before they decided to do this, after all why have all those expensive cameras sat there doing nothing when there was no variable speed limit in place and with no film to process there's no limit to how many can get caught. It's not that difficult really, if you do want to exceed the speed limit on the motorway don't do it where there's overhead gantries or those nice spec cameras. Simples......

[Huskoda]

The ones on the M62 already do flash even when there is no reduced limit displayed, because then they're enforcing the standard 70MPH limit.

[Brimma]

I really think they should do away with the speed camera warning signs

Why should people be told where the cameras are? That way they'd generate even more income

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Up the limit to 80 (when safe via managed motorways) and put speed cameras in places for safety reasons and not revenue, this would make them a lot more credible as a solution rather than just a being branded a cash generator (all IMO of course)

[stever750]

And therein lies the worry - that they will be used in the future when the display is off, despite this not currently being the case.  Easy to arrange and woud result in millions of motorists being fined with the commensurate increase in Govt coffers without any descretion being applied whatsoever - a simple speed cut-off.

Well it's not a worry if you don't break the limit!

 

From experience an indicated 80 is safe. I'd never drive faster under any variable gantry, on or off; it's asking for trouble.

[bealine]

It really does surprise me the number of people who advocate "don't break the speed limit" on motorways.   As far as I can see, the only drivers around here that drive below the 70 mph motorway limit are (a) truck drivers, because they have speed limiters fitted  and ( local commuters who use the motorway as a three lane side road.   By far, the majority drive (in clear conditions) safely at between 80-85 mph.

If we all sat at speeds below 70 mph along the M4 corridor, the Royal entourage would be regularly held up and then the police outriders and bodyguards would be kicking arse to get you to move out of the way!

Enforcing speed limits in town centres, residential areas and rural villages with cameras - even unmarked ones - I can understand and happily live with.   Cameras on motorways are simply a cash machine.

Edited 20 January, 2015 by bealine

[DaveI]

A boss at my company was caught doing 87 on the M62 when the signs were off, it was the middle of the night coming home from a flight.

 

So if the variable speed limit signs are off, don't assume the cameras are as well!

Edited 20 January, 2015 by DaveI

[stever750]

It really does surprise me the number of people who advocate "don't break the speed limit" on motorways.   As far as I can see, the only drivers around here that drive below the 70 mph motorway limit are (a) truck drivers, because they have speed limiters fitted  and ( local commuters who use the motorway as a three lane side road.   By far, the majority drive (in clear conditions) safely at between 80-85 mph.

If we all sat at speeds below 70 mph along the M4 corridor, the Royal entourage would be regularly held up and then the police outriders and bodyguards would be kicking arse to get you to move out of the way!

Enforcing speed limits in town centres, residential areas and rural villages with cameras - even unmarked ones - I can understand and happily live with.   Cameras on motorways are simply a cash machine.

It's a valid moral / technical issue, but one that requires legislation to change it. Mass speeding won't change anything unless there is political pressure, and unfortunately in the light of budget deficits and borrowing with oil tax revenues dropping, the population ageing and whining more and flooding hospitals needlessly means the income has got to come from somewhere, so don't expect any sympathetic ear from any political party right now. Any that do are living in cuckoo land. 

What we need is a bit if industrial analysis that shows raising the limit to 90mph will increase GDP by a measurable amount. That might swing it..

[Llanigraham]

It really does surprise me the number of people who advocate "don't break the speed limit" on motorways.   As far as I can see, the only drivers around here that drive below the 70 mph motorway limit are (a) truck drivers, because they have speed limiters fitted  and ( local commuters who use the motorway as a three lane side road.   By far, the majority drive (in clear conditions) safely at between 80-85 mph.

If we all sat at speeds below 70 mph along the M4 corridor, the Royal entourage would be regularly held up and then the police outriders and bodyguards would be kicking arse to get you to move out of the way!

Enforcing speed limits in town centres, residential areas and rural villages with cameras - even unmarked ones - I can understand and happily live with.   Cameras on motorways are simply a cash machine.

 

Rubbish!

If you want to break the Law, be it speeding or anything else, then you can expect to get caught and pay for your consequences.

Tough, but that's life.

If you don't like it I suggest you sell your car and travel in another way.

[Brimma]

Same as anything - extend limit to 80 and people will do 90+ etc, etc, etc

I doubt many cameras pick up on anything up to 79 anyway, unless in a zero tolerance area

I hear the argument that everybody does it, but that doesn't make it legal, it just means they're prepared to take the risk of not getting caught

[jlwah]

The problem with speeding as an offence is that there is no victim and it's seen as a cash cow for local and central government.

 

The police and government bang on about how dangerous speeding is, yet there is little evidence to concur with that view. If speeding was as dangerous as they suggest, then they would quadruple (or more) the number of police vehicles on the road and would be pulling over everyone caught speeding to protect them. It doesn't happen because it isn't the issue or threat they make out.

This is an area of policing that needs to be handled carefully as if they target too many motorists then public support for the police falls and that's to the detriment of victims of many other crimes.

 

Whilst I actually agree with the managed motorway sections on the M25, M6 and M62, etc., I think the traffic volumes should be more closely monitored and speed limits altered promptly. I've driven back past Leeds on the M62 with the signs saying 40 mph and I'm virtually the only car heading west!

As for whether they should or are active once speed restrictions have been lifted, I can only say that on one stretch of the M62 one evening in early December they definitely weren't 

[Brimma]

If speeding was as dangerous as they suggest, then they would quadruple (or more) the number of police vehicles on the road and would be pulling over everyone caught speeding to protect them. It doesn't happen because it isn't the issue or threat they make out.

Cloudcuckooland springs to mind

With most forces being strapped for cash by government cuts, where are these vehicles and officers going to appear from, thin air?

Many busy city centres struggle to have officers on the beat dealing with 'real crime' as you put it, let alone putting them all out on mobile patrol, where at best they can probably only process one vehicle at a time on a physical stop

For me the education element came from having to pay for the SAC, I don't want to get points, fines etc for getting caught again

Those who learn nothing from being caught on numerous occasions arguably deserve everything they get