Just replaced previous Goodyear Vector 4Seasons with the new Michelin Cross Climate on my Scout. As I understand it, the former is essentially a winter tyre but also for summer use, the latter the other way round! Both have the official 'snow flake' designation for winter use.

 

Both are expensive; the new Michelins @£50 more for a set of four purchased from ATS who are owned by Michelin - but the price might fall in due course as the well known online discounter Black Circles have just been bought out by Michelin.

 

Interestingly, the tread pattern of the 2 brands is not dissimilar, but Michelin are conducting a big pr campaign on the merits of the Cross Climate:

 

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-crossclimate

 

and Tyre Reviews: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-CrossClimate-launched-is-this-a-game-changer.htm

 

Immediately noticable difference is that the Michelin's are much more 'supple' on the Cotswold back roads I frequently drive, but the 4Seasons were fine - and did last for approaching 40,000 miles, so I'll see if the Cross Climate's match that in due course!

I've been delighted with the Goodyear 4 seasons on the Scout and my old SLK230. Will be very interested to see how you get on with the Michelins. Keep us posted.

Cheers,

Mark

Im looking to get a set of these on my 2.0 Elegance 2wd as I am starting to appreciate the sensibility of having bonafide winter tyres in our colder months but dont have the inclination to run or storage for a 2nd set of wheels and tyres. Could be a fairly ideal compromise.

Edited 9 May, 201511 yr by pipsyp

I'm quite keen on going with foul-weather/winter tyres on my new scout too.

I figure that the benefit of extra grip in grim conditions outweighs that on warm, dry roads and tracks.

In my mind, the AWD will really come into it's own on slippery roads, I'm sure they will have enough grip for 180bhp in the dry.

Besides, if I'm having fun on a dry day, it's invariably on the bike.

I'd also be interested to know how their grip on mud and wet grass compares.

My main concerns are - upfront cost, longevity and fuel economy.

I'm always a bit skeptical about new product reviews, the press tend to be overly effusive about anything new in their industry and a lot of articles are written from press-releases.

4 season tyres is a Bad idea.

They might seem ok, untill that day when you need to an emergency braking.....

4 season tyres is a Bad idea.

They might seem ok, untill that day when you need to an emergency braking.....

and what exactly are you basing that upon?

and what exactly are you basing that upon?

All season tyres are ok in all seasons, but not good in any of them.

Ive tried all season tyres, and the grip cant be compared to either winter or summer tires. During normal driving you wont really notice it, untill an emergency braking or manouver.

and what exactly are you basing that upon?

Experience and lots of tyre tests

 

An 'All Season' is worse in summer than a standard tyre, and worse in winter than a winter tyre.

 

So all you gain is slightly better performance in winter (over a stnadard tyre) at the expense of summer performance.

 

In the UK you only need winters for 3-4 months, so for 8-9 months of the year you are worse off.

 

Jack of all trades, master of none.

The new CrossClimate is suppose to be better than traditional all-seasons, at least from the videos.

 

https://youtu.be/seq765aXTAw - English subtitles available

 

https://youtu.be/IUtfHIxSJNo - promo video

 

Not saying this is better than a summer/winter setup, but seem a decent alternative if for circumstances you can't have 2 sets of tyres.

 

 

 

 

 

 

..... But it is still a compromise.

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All season tyres are ok in all seasons, but not good in any of them.

Ive tried all season tyres, and the grip cant be compared to either winter or summer tires. During normal driving you wont really notice it, untill an emergency braking or manouver.

 

Experience and lots of tyre tests

 

An 'All Season' is worse in summer than a standard tyre, and worse in winter than a winter tyre.

 

So all you gain is slightly better performance in winter (over a stnadard tyre) at the expense of summer performance.

 

In the UK you only need winters for 3-4 months, so for 8-9 months of the year you are worse off.

 

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Both of the above posts are better than the original which tells people reading the thread nothing at all.  I am considering all year round tyres rather than winter tyres that I have had for the past four years or so because I hate having to change wheels twice a year.  So the thread is of interest to me because I want to see what experience others have had of them.  So a bland statement without any evidence to back it up such as you two have now provided adds nothing to the thread and hence my blunt (if you like) question.

 

From what I have read in other threads and from links the all year round tyres are supposed to address this issue but I guess only time will tell.  Certainly in my experience braking on winter tyres in below 7c is far better than with normal tyres as it is supposed to be but of course I would not expect them to be quite as good in summer.  Having said that I have neither tried them nor seen evidence to support one view or the other.

 

Andy you say your view is gained from testing tyres so does that mean you have tested the all year round tyres and if so what was your experience?

 

Gromle by what you say do I take it that you have had to do an emergency stop with these tyres on?

 

I am unsure how long these tyres have been out but I see that Michelin have entered the market with their offering and the tests linked to appear to be very good but how much of that is PR blurb and how much is fact?  Do either of you two know? 

 

My apologies if I came across a bit blunt but I hope I have shown that experience of these things can help those of us that have none to make an informed opinion rather than just be left thinking what does the person posting the piece know and can it be relied upon.  That surely is what these threads are for to help others to make decisions about things with the assistance of those that know more than most.

I have run all seasons, winters and standard tyres on very different cars over the last 10 years or so. Until about 5 years ago I had never tried proper winter tyres, and have run Continental TS 830 and 850 on 3 different cars, Octavia 2 and 2 Octavia 3s. I do 25k pa so get through tyres

Until you try winters you will not understand how much braking distances are reduced by in cold and wet conditions, never mind snow and ice. I kept one set of ts830s on about a month too long as they were now sub 5mm so were about to be binned, and they were atrocious in the warmer conditions.

I have run all seasons, and they are a compromise, Simples. Not as good in the cold and wet as a true winter, and nowhere near as good in summer as a good standard tyre such as a Goodyear F1 AS2.

there is no doubt they are significantly better than a standard tyre in winter conditions, but not a patch on a true winter.

I am also talking about good quality tyres , not cheap ditch finders here.

TBH there are probably 1000+ posts on here debating winters vs all seasons vs standard tyres, you pay your money and make your own choice. I know what mine is, I like to be safe.

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Just read up on tyre reviews. All season tyres often use over 10meters more to a complete stop than regular tyres for the actual season. This is with Norwegian speedlimits, UK have higher speedlimits, so the difference will be even greater.

If you get them, try a side by side braketest with someone who has the same car, but dedicated summertyres, he will stop way earlier than you.

And yes, Ive done braketests with all seasons, they didnt brake well.

The only advantage they have over summertyres is a bit better handling in the winter, but nowhere near the handling of wintertyres.

Andy I wasn't aware that all season tyres had been around that long.  I have had winters on for a four years and have been very impressed with them in snow and ice although to be fair we have not had that much snow.  The year before we had loads and winter tyres would not have got my car out of my drive and we were stuck for three days whilst we dug our drive and road out twice! 

 

I accept that the all seasons will be a compromise but with all the electronic gubbins we have these days surely that compromise is smaller than it used to be?  Having started my driving on cross plies and without fancy electronics I think any advantage over normal tyres has to be better.  I recognise that roads are busier now than ever and there are a lot of idiots out there hence the likelihood of having to take evasive action is higher now.  I drive for a living though and whilst I don't do the annual mileage that you do these days a couple of years ago I was doing 40 - 50 thousand per year and never had to do an emergency stop nor take serious evasive action.

 

I think the point I am struggling to make here is that compromise is part of the equation but having as many facts as possible discussed openly in a thread like this is better than one line put downs of a product.

All seasons have been around for years.

No matter how many electronic gizmos there are, only one thing provides grip and that is the tyres. Tyres with little grip aren't improved by ABS, ESP, TC etc.

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Cannot disagree with that Andy and when you think about the small contact patch that does all the work we are lucky we have the safety we do.  Seriously didn't realise they had been around that long but I would have thought in those years they must have improved. 

 

I shall have a good look at the tests in the coming weeks as I really am considering these rather than the winter tyres.  I actually do very few miles these days maybe only as many as 4 or 5 thousand so 10% of what I was doing combined work and private mileage.  I still do a fair bit of work mileage but nothing like I did and won't be paying for tyres on my work vehicle.  In fact the job I do (school bus driver) if the weather is bad the schools are closed for safety reasons at the drop of a hat so I won't be driving the mini bus.  It is kept most of the time at my house so I don't travel to and from work and therefore if it is bad I won't need to drive at all really.  Mind you the shops are down the bottom of the hill so I will invest in some good winter boots.

Plenty of tyre places will offer a 'tyre hotel' for £20 or so and keep your out of season tyres for you until time to change over again.

 

I like swapping wheels as well for a couple of reasons

It keeps the alloys away from the winter salt

I run a narrower profile tyre in winter, less likely to aquaplane and also provides increased grip on snow (which we get quite a bit of where I live on the west pennine moors)

It always surprises me that some people think that a snowflake symbol on the tyre means they can go out and drive like a lunatic when it snows. They think a snowflake means they are on winters. I have commented before on why I drive on full winters half of the year, but more importantly I think people should think a bit more about the tyres they are putting on and drive accordingly. Having had winters and summers for many years you get to recognise what a tyre is for by the pattern on the tread, winters are quite distinctive. Different tyres for different situations, horses for courses. Best tyre on snow will not be anywhere near the best on freezing tarmac, they will both have a snowflake.

 

One thing is for certain, no matter what tyre you have on you will always find yourself out on a day when the tyre you have is more of a compromise than another tyre or another day. The trick is knowing the tyre, knowing what it was designed to do (they do not always get it right but some thought goes into them) and driving accordingly. As I have said before a lot depends on whether you can pull the curtains back and go **** it or you have to get a move on when needed on a bad day.

 

For my needs, a 4 season tyre would always be a compromise more of the time than alternating winters and summers. (I make the assumption that advances in technology apply to all tyres equally) however I have the space for a dozen extra wheels and I spend time on the vehicles twice a year anyway, others may not have the time and or the space and for them that particular compromise may suit better.

 

All seasons will never be as good as dedicated tyres for the season or conditions but they will be better than the wrong tyre for the season, and more importantly I think it can only be a good thing that people are taking more than a passing interest in the tyres and what they can (or cannot) do

My guess is that Michelin's new Cross Climate tyre is no different to many other premium all-season tyres.

 

A huge promotional budget and clever marketing at its best.

I'm seeing a lot of opinion and not a lot of quantitative evidence.

 

 

Ignoring actual snow and slush for now - I'd be happy to sacrifice X% of warm/dry road grip for X% of wet/cold road grip. 

It's true, I only need snow/slush tyres for <7 days per year - but the point is that I never get around to fitting them. 

 

I* am more likely to accidentally find myself in an unpredicted dicey situation beyond my grip in poor conditions than good conditions, as I rarely drive all that closely to my safety margin.

 

 

So, perhaps;

1st place - Summer tyres and Winter tyres - swapped over twice per year with psychic-weatherman precision

2nd place - Year-round tyres

3rd place - Summer tyres parked up in a hillside layby at one end of a set of bootprints in the snow

 

 

 

 

 

*and more importantly, my wife.

Don't know how to quantify my experience really. Personally I don't necessarily look at the weather I just change them with the clocks. Most of the manufacturers have info on when their tyres come into their own but generally winter (not snow) tyres really come into their own on normal roads around 7 degrees. Personally I don't feel much loss up to 15 degrees and that is a reasonable overlap. Very few days am I on a tyre that feels compromised.

 

It is fairly accepted that you are better off with winters all year than summers as the performance of winters does not drop off in the heat as much as summers in the cold, they do wear a lot more though. I have had winters on in 25 degrees and I did feel it, but still able to get places fine and stop well. Summers in the snow and you may not get anywhere.

 

Wet performance is another matter, both summer and winters have good and bad performers in the wet, winters do not necessarily perform better in the wet, only the cold. Personally I prioritise wet braking performance in any of my tyres summer or winter.

 

Personally, as you have bought a 4x4 I would make the most of its capabilities. A FWD with good winters will go and stop better than a 4x4 with summers in cold weather (and I would bet most all-seasons) . Having had my Haldex 4x4 on summers back to back with my FWD on good winters I have proved enough to myself.

I ran some Bridgestone A001 weather control on my wife's car for two years. These are classed as an all season tyre, but more suited to the climate in the the UK. They are not going to drive you to the alps, but in temperatures below 7c and in slush and moderate snow they were fine, and in the wet whatever the temperature they were pretty damn amazing. Dry performance was just as good as wet.

Review is here http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Bridgestone/A001.htm

I'm seeing a lot of opinion and not a lot of quantitative evidence.

 

 

Ignoring actual snow and slush for now - I'd be happy to sacrifice X% of warm/dry road grip for X% of wet/cold road grip. 

It's true, I only need snow/slush tyres for <7 days per year - but the point is that I never get around to fitting them. 

 

I* am more likely to accidentally find myself in an unpredicted dicey situation beyond my grip in poor conditions than good conditions, as I rarely drive all that closely to my safety margin.

 

 

So, perhaps;

1st place - Summer tyres and Winter tyres - swapped over twice per year with psychic-weatherman precision

2nd place - Year-round tyres

3rd place - Summer tyres parked up in a hillside layby at one end of a set of bootprints in the snow

 

 

 

 

 

*and more importantly, my wife.

Define snow/slush tyres???

 

Winter tyres are not snow tyres. Perhaps you are thinking of the (often confused with winter) M+S tyres - which are most definitely not winter tyres, just an indication of an open tread pattern.

 

http://www.continental-tires.com/www/tires_de_en/themes/van-tires/winter-tires/markings/markings_en.html

 

But you are thinking along the right lines, and working out what tyre suits your driving and life style.

Ah, thanks for that link, V interesting.

Essentially, I'd be happy to sacrifice some warm+dry performance for wet/cold/mild offroad performance.

So, yeah, any ideas/suggestions/evidence for different tyres much appreciated

Uniroyal Rainsport or an equivalent?

 

Basically an all-weather tyre designed for the wet.

 

Then again, Goodyear Eagle F1 AS2s are rated A for the wet ..........