Clutch Eats Gearbox and Bank Balance!

[chimaera]

My 2012 Superb CR 140 estate has just had the same problem at 110,000 miles. Bit of a saga...

First sign of a problem was driving to work one morning, the clutch started slipping badly with anything but a very light throttle. I managed to get to work and drove the 31 miles home again by driving very gently. This was Wed 21st December. On 22nd I called my Skoda dealer (Heritage in Yeovil) and said I needed the clutch replacing and could I book it in. They said they couldn't look at it until the 29th so on the 23rd I drove it the 30 miles to the dealer and left it with them. I took along the form they'd emailed asking for as much information about the problem as possible so that they could order in any required parts. When I left the car I asked if I'd be able to collect the car on the 30th and they said that would be no problem.

Come the 29th I expected a call to confirm the pricing and when they eventually did call they said they'd road tested it and told me "the clutch is slipping badly and needs replacing". Brilliant. I was then told that the clutch replacement would cost about £990 at which point I reminded him that their own website shows the clutch replacement cost as £539. He said "the parts alone cost more than that and couldn't possibly get anywhere near that price". He also told me that the DMF might need replacing as well for an additional £600+ . He also told me he couldn't get parts until the following Wednesday.

I decided to contact a local VAG independent who quoted me £783 to replace clutch and DMF. Having lost faith in my Skoda dealer I retrieved the car and took it to the independent. However, 2 hours later he called to say the clutch had broken and machined a hole in the gearbox casing. He has now passed the gearbox to a specialist who will replace the casing and bearings and rebuild the box. This will cost about an extra £1000.

I bought the car secondhand but it has always been serviced by Skoda. Hindsight suggests that had I left it with Skoda I MAY have ONLY had to pay £1200 if I'd been given a goodwill gesture, but not sure if that would include a DMF too? Anyway, too late now...

According to the Skoda techincal bulletin Skoda should be eating the entire cost of the repair, but you probably needed to leave it with them. Contact Skoda UK and refer to TPI bulletin 2039427/5 and remind them that it's a known fault.

[Jayelem]

Good luck with the SUK negotiation, I did everything I could, and they wouldn't even acknowledge the issue, let alone even contribute. I'd be interested to know which clutch the independent fitted. Original Sachs, uprated Sachs or LUK

[chimaera]

Good luck with the SUK negotiation, I did everything I could, and they wouldn't even acknowledge the issue, let alone even contribute. I'd be interested to know which clutch the independent fitted. Original Sachs, uprated Sachs or LUK

I wonder how you'd have fared if the TPI had been issued at the time. I still reckon you could get some of your money back given that you've documented your case very well, and they have now acknowledged it as an issue. If I were you I'd be talking to my solicitor about it.

 

Incidentally I suspect my own car may have developed this issue too. At times over the summer I'd noticed a periodic grating/hissing noise from the engine bay but it came and went and I didn't pay it much heed. I noticed it again yesterda and it struck me that it may well be this issue. I'm tempted to call to a mechanic I know and see if I can get my fibre-optic camera into the bell housing for a look before I go talk to my local Skoda dealer. I'm due a service in March anyway so I'm debating whether I can wait until then to have it looked at or not.

[silver1011]

I was then told that the clutch replacement would cost about £990 at which point I reminded him that their own website shows the clutch replacement cost as £539. He said "the parts alone cost more than that and couldn't possibly get anywhere near that price". He also told me that the DMF might need replacing as well for an additional £600+ . He also told me he couldn't get parts until the following Wednesday.

 

That abomination of service alone would warrant a complaint to Skoda UK.

 

The £539 is still on their website. Did you ask if they are going to amend their site to reflect the fact that they are no longer participating in Skoda UK's national fixed price policy?

 

http://www.heritageskoda.co.uk/special-offers/service/fixed-price-servicing/

 

For what its worth I had a genuine Skoda clutch and DMF (LUK) fitted inc. VAT for £600 at a VAG specialist. For Heritage Skoda to try and claim the parts alone cost more than this is a plain and simple lie. Appalling excuse for service.

 

Be sure to post here and send Heritage Skoda the link...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/34714-loders-skoda-yeovil/

[Ryeman]

Just imagine if they'd sold them in the U.S.

[Jayelem]

I wonder how you'd have fared if the TPI had been issued at the time. I still reckon you could get some of your money back given that you've documented your case very well, and they have now acknowledged it as an issue. If I were you I'd be talking to my solicitor about it.

 

Incidentally I suspect my own car may have developed this issue too. At times over the summer I'd noticed a periodic grating/hissing noise from the engine bay but it came and went and I didn't pay it much heed. I noticed it again yesterda and it struck me that it may well be this issue. I'm tempted to call to a mechanic I know and see if I can get my fibre-optic camera into the bell housing for a look before I go talk to my local Skoda dealer. I'm due a service in March anyway so I'm debating whether I can wait until then to have it looked at or not.

Thanks for this, I'd love to talk to a solicitor about it, because as I've said many times, SUK's stance is immoral at best, and may be contrary to consumer law, whoever did the repair.  The problem is, an initial 30min consultation is, I believe £150-200 (£400/hr!!) and I guess the best result would then be that I had a case, which would then incur more costs that I'd only recover if I won.  I'm already nearly £4K down, so I really can't afford to risk that, and I suppose that's what SUK banks on. 

 

I could do with a friendly  solicitor who'd do it on a  no win/no fee basis simply because they believed in the rights of the little man over dubious business practices.  (Well, I can dream!) 

 

Sorry to hear your own car my be about to eat itself, hopefully, if it does, this thread will be of some use to you, and to others as well. 

 

As a footnote, I'm now in another manufacturer's car, which is great, but actually nowhere near the quality and functionality of the Superb, which I miss a lot.  I was, and would have been, a loyal customer, but all I feel now is resentment.  Surely that's not "Simply Clever"

Edited 3 January, 2017 by Jayelem

[Ryeman]

Out here solicitors will give an initial consultation for free to at least give you an idea as to whether you have a strong case and he would probably know of one trawling to run a group action also.

I'd be surprised if the same doesn't apply in the U.K.

(then there's the current affairs type media who tend to be always on the lookout for a 'sensational' story...... unless they are a station sponsor)

Edited 4 January, 2017 by Ryeman

[ujtordai]

Hi Guys

 

I had a similar problem.

Take a look to my post if interested in,

I have Sachs clutch.

Edited 2 November, 2017 by ujtordai

[StarForce]

Hi guys,

 

I have a Superb 2.0 TDI CR 140 (CFFB) MY2011, manual transmission and reading this post, I see my car could be affected.

 

Is there a way to know if my car mounts a Sachs clutch w/o dismantle?

Is there like any VIN number affected ?

I would rather prefer to do a preventive maintenance before the gear box is affected and get a huge bill

Thanks

 

[Donbrig]

Through doing more research on this clutch et al debacle thanks to my current situation (Dual Mass Flywheel failing following Sachs clutch replacement) my jaw dropped when I started reading this forum - Audi - Sachs Clutch failure eating gearbox.

So, it appears that the Sachs clutch issue is found over the whole VAG group affecting Audi and VW cars as well - and as ever VAG claim there is no issue.

There must be hundreds if not thousands of people out there affected by this as these forums will tend to only attract the vocal proactive motoring minority.

The motoring press really need to start investigating this - certainly makes for a great story for them.

[Ryeman]

I’ve never understood why VAG get so many free passes........unless German engineered products are beyond criticism.

[chimaera]

It's more likely that VAG don't do much to shout about failures and (probably) hope owners will give in when faced with big repair bills. This clutch issue is a known fault within VAG, and as I pointed out multiple times on this thread and others they have instructed dealers to perform the entire repair at no cost to the customer. A one-hour subscription to erWin is cheap and allows you to download the bulletin, which you can bring to the dealer. I can't see how they could argue against documentation from the manufacturer on the issue. If they do, it's time to get a solicitor.

[Donbrig]

To save time for others in the future.

Signed up for Skoda erWin - Skoda erWin Homepage - then paid for one hours access (cost 8.40€ in total (7€ for access + 1.40€VAT).

You must use Internet Explorer to get the maintenance forms to appear - Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome will not work - and you need to switch off any pop-up blocking software you may have.

I had issues getting the system to remember my password but resetting the password got things going.

To find the technical bulletin regarding the clutch search by this number in the Technical Service Handbook section - 2039427.

The latest version is now called 2039427/6, Release Date 24th May 2016.

Cannot upload the full document as your car details are encoded on the document but the bulletin is clear that the issue lies with a "quality deviation of the diaphragm spring of the release plate" - plenty photos given as well showing the issue in all its glory.

The repair explained is to replace the clutch and gearbox only (latter only to be done if oil leaking out of it) .  There is no mention of Sachs anywhere in the document.

What is not stated in the document in clear english is that the repair will be done at no expense to the consumer.

 

[Ryeman]

^^^^ so is it that VW designed the clutch themselves and got Sachs to manufacture it to those exact specifications, rather than simply giving them the job as specialists in the field?.

[chimaera]

I would imagine Sachs got a specification for dimensions and torque limit and left it to Sachs to perform the design. Issues like this are always a possibility especially when a component is used on several million vehicles in service. It's how the company responds that's really the issue.

[chimaera]

1 hour ago, Donbrig said:

The repair explained is to replace the clutch and gearbox only (latter only to be done if oil leaking out of it) .  There is no mention of Sachs anywhere in the document.

What is not stated in the document in clear english is that the repair will be done at no expense to the consumer.

 

 

There are a few parts of the text that imply, within the context of the document, that Skoda are taking on the repair as a warranty item:

 

At the end of the section 'Measure' there's this:

Quote

In this case, every gearbox replacement needs to be based on a DISS Report including the photo
documentation attached concerning the rubbed through gearbox housing.
The gearbox replaced will not be reimbursed without these documents.

 

The final section of the document is entitled "Warranty accounting instructions" and the selection of cost codes here that are allocated to the different repair scenarios implies to me at least that Skoda/VAG are coughing up for the repair.

 

Here's the EU position on warranties/guarantees, which is the legal minimum you're entitled to: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

[Donbrig]

1 minute ago, chimaera said:

 

There are a few parts of the text that imply, within the context of the document, that Skoda are taking on the repair as a warranty item:

 

At the end of the section 'Measure' there's this:

 

The final section of the document is entitled "Warranty accounting instructions" and the selection of cost codes here that are allocated to the different repair scenarios implies to me at least that Skoda/VAG are coughing up for the repair.

 

Here's the EU position on warranties/guarantees, which is the legal minimum you're entitled to: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

Many thanks chimaera.

The ongoing complaint with Skoda is not off to a good start - submitted a detailed written explanation of the situation using their official online form. 

Got receipt telling that they had received it.

Heard nothing further so phoned today to find out what is going on -  customer services do a search and find no record of the form being received in the first place. 

Now await contact with the allocated customer support complaint agent as got a case code now.

[chimaera]

1 hour ago, Donbrig said:

Many thanks chimaera.

The ongoing complaint with Skoda is not off to a good start - submitted a detailed written explanation of the situation using their official online form. 

Got receipt telling that they had received it.

Heard nothing further so phoned today to find out what is going on -  customer services do a search and find no record of the form being received in the first place. 

Now await contact with the allocated customer support complaint agent as got a case code now.

My experience of contacting VAG here in Ireland is that it's a slow process and you need to keep chasing them. They will probably keep putting hoops in front of you too, so be prepared to dig into the arcane when it comes to consumer rights and data protection.

[Steviejay]

Ok so I have read all this and I am currently having clutch wobble vibration on my superb mk2 2.0 tdi cr 4x4......

 

I see it seems to be the 140bhp though, it this pressure plate issue sachs clutch the same on the 170bhp?

 

 

Thanks for any response guys 

 Engine code CFGB 

 

Transmission is code KXY

[chimaera]

It's an issue for all 2.0 common rail TDIs fitted to a range of VAG models. For Skoda, FWD and 4x4 versions of Yeti, Octavia 2 and Superb 2.

[Danny 57]

Luckily mine happened as the garage drove my car from where I parked it to the workshop (being serviced). They phoned me up to ask if I had heard any noise, which I had not. They showed me the clutch and pictures of the casing to ease my mind on the damage. My dealer simply got on with the task and kept me informed until I collected it three days later.

Edited 30 November, 2017 by Danny 57

[Warmonkry]

2 hours ago, chimaera said:

It's an issue for all 2.0 common rail TDIs fitted to a range of VAG models. For Skoda, FWD and 4x4 versions of Yeti, Octavia 2 and Superb 2.

Am I right in assuming that this is only a manual gearbox issue?

 

Pete

[chimaera]

2 hours ago, Warmonkry said:

Am I right in assuming that this is only a manual gearbox issue?

 

Pete

Yes

[Donbrig]

On 11/28/2017 at 13:52, chimaera said:

My experience of contacting VAG here in Ireland is that it's a slow process and you need to keep chasing them. They will probably keep putting hoops in front of you too, so be prepared to dig into the arcane when it comes to consumer rights and data protection.

After the first discussions with Skoda UK (SUK), your words are proving prophetic.

 

It's ridiculous really as there is no need for this forum thread or any customer angst in the first place.

As I said to SUK you have a situation created by a third party who supplied you (VAG) a part that was demonstrably not up to specification. 

As soon as that was clear, the right thing to do would be to put in place a workflow whereby the end user is not charged for any repair as the fault cannot be attributed to any action on the part of the driver.

Any subsequent charges would/should then be rebilled to the supplier (Sachs) - thus VAG would not be out of pocket either.

Instead, VAG choose a ethically dubious route whereby the consumer is misled (not told that its a manufacturing defect) and charged for the repair - who knows, maybe they are charging Sachs anyway and pocketing the difference in the process so helping to make up for the money lost in the emissions scandal?

 

Update viz my car is that the flywheel was broken so that is now replaced (paid under protest so to allow me to pursue this further in the media/legally). 

So in less than 12 months I have had to have the Clutch, Gearbox & DMF all replaced in a top of the range model Superb that is just over 5 years old with just 56K miles on the clock (full service history with SUK).

I am now over £2300 out of pocket and I am now pursuing recovery of this cost from SUK - the media are interested in the story and SUK know this so we'll see if I get any satisfaction in the coming weeks.

  

 

[Jayelem]

Good luck with this, I'd be interested in how you get on.  If you trawl through my many posts above, you'll see that my situation is complicated by the dealer's inability/unwillingness to help, and the involvement of a third party, but the fact remains that an original, known, widespread and proven manufacturing fault cost me thousands and cost VAG a  loyal customer.  As I've said several times, if this practice isn't in breach of trading regulations, it's certainly morally dubious.

Edited 1 December, 2017 by Jayelem