Clutch Eats Gearbox and Bank Balance!

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Clearly a weak pressure plate..IMHO.

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[Jayelem]

Clearly a weak pressure plate..IMHO.

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Surprisingly, no.  The spring diaphragm of the pressure plate is fine for strength, in that its material, hardness and metallurgical structure are appropriate for the part.  The failure is a crystal-clear fatigue failure ("metal fatigue" in news-speak)  The cracks originate from surface features in the steel, and from relative movement of the spring in its housing, which causes microscopic surface defects through fretting, and they, in turn, amplify the applied stress, initiating cracks.  Over time, cracks move through the steel in waves, until it ultimately fails, disengages from its location and machines bl**dy great holes in the gearbox.   You can clearly see this in the fracture faces.  It's 100% impossible to create this situation through misuse or driver error, and that's why I feel so strongly that I shouldn't be shelling out £4K for something that was built into the car, and I tried to get the dealer to fix, but as I said, I don't want to open up that debate again.  If I can save someone else the same pain, maybe they'll benefit from my misfortune. 

[Danny 57]

Jayelem,

That is exactly what happened to my car (they showed me the clutch) though in my case it happened as the mechanic drove my car from the garage car park into the workshop after I had dropped it off. It was just over three years old with a five year warranty and once removed it was "obvious" that it was not a wear and tear part clutch.

[FLAPPERJACK7]

6th one I have seen in 24 months. Have 2 in my workshop at this very moment. So far I have noted that this is happening around the 30 to 40000 mile mark in my personal experiences.

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[Danny 57]

Mine was about 42500 miles.

[Jayelem]

6th one I have seen in 24 months. Have 2 in my workshop at this very moment. So far I have noted that this is happening around the 30 to 40000 mile mark in my personal experiences.

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Yep.  Mine was 45K, no mileage at all for a durability failure like this, you wouldn't even expect the friction plate to fail at this mileage.  In fact, my friction plate was perfect, and it's ironic that it massively outlasted the pressure plate!  It's very clear that there are many, many cars failing like this (or, more worryingly, are about to fail) and also clear that Skoda must certainly know all about it.

[FLAPPERJACK7]

They know everything. Every time a car goes into a Skoda workshop under warranty a technical report is made. The Germans love paperwork and statistics. This is another huge warranty pay out. When I first saw it I thought customer must be riding clutch but like Jaylem said friction plate is still good.

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[FLAPPERJACK7]

You can buy an Luk flywheel and complete clutch. It's always Sachs that fail like this on these 6 speeds.

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[Jayelem]

You can buy an Luk flywheel and complete clutch. It's always Sachs that fail like this on these 6 speeds.

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Yes, the garage was smart enough to do this.  I said to Skoda UK "check your records, you'll find lots of these failures because it's built into the clutch" but they just stonewalled me.  Thanks for confirming the inherent fault, it's good to know, and even if it doesn't help me, it might help others.

[lichfielddriver]

is there no SMF option for the +1.6 diesels?

[John Phillips]

I've just had the same thing happen myself. The car is three and a half years old and now out of warranty by six months. It has done just under 45000 miles and been serviced at the appropriate intervals by Skoda main dealers. The car was towed from home to the dealers by the RAC and was in the garage for two days before being looked at. Eventually, I was given a price of £3560 for parts only and was told that the total would be just over £4000. I nearly fell off my chair when they told me that, but was told that they would talk to the Warranty manager at SUK. I have been waiting for a reply now for a day and a half and have not heard anything. every time I phone , I am told they cannot get through to him. Meanwhile, I am without a car and thoroughly p***** off, whilst that glimmer of hope I had for some goodwill is rapidly fading.

[Jayelem]

John.  I'd be much more hopeful you get some contribution.  SUK's sole point with me was I'd gone outside the dealer network.  Good luck.

It does show, though, that they 100% know exactly what this problem is, and what causes it (see my post above) and whatever they say, the fault is an OE design FAILURE, which costs honest customers thousands.

[bigjohn]

The six speed gearbox has a inboard clutch slave cylinder not a release arm like your picture has (would suggest the picture is a 5 speed box with a external slave cylinder) and what happens is the clutch cover plate retaining ring snaps and cuts its way through the gearbox bell housing causing the oil to leak out.

 

Presumably this only affects cars with the concentric slave cylinder which I think are the six speed diesels

 

With the 5 speed box on the 1.6CR diesel If the clutch pressure plate started failing it would have to machine it's way through the release arm first - and you would know about that pretty quickly!

 

I think the petrol Superbs also have external slave cylinders and release arms (my 1.4tsi 6 speed has and external slave cylinder but am not 100% sure about the 1.8tsi)

 

I've never had a pressure plate fail in this way on any car I've owned before . My 2003 Superb I 1.9 pd 100 5 speed was (and still is under new ownership)  on its original clutch at 170k miles

Edited 24 October, 2015 by bigjohn

[lichfielddriver]

I've just had the same thing happen myself. The car is three and a half years old and now out of warranty by six months. It has done just under 45000 miles and been serviced at the appropriate intervals by Skoda main dealers. The car was towed from home to the dealers by the RAC and was in the garage for two days before being looked at. Eventually, I was given a price of £3560 for parts only and was told that the total would be just over £4000. I nearly fell off my chair when they told me that,

 

I dont usually buy a car for taxi work till it 3 years (4 being the maximum for a first plate here), my Mondeo did need a DMF at 140k (car bought at 60K, sold at 180K) my much maligned and joked about Chevrolet (cough --- Daewoo) was bought at 45,000 and sold 18 months later at 88K with no major mechanical ills (loss of dealer network was the prompt) in fact in its last MONTH i took more off it than it cost me....

 

I do worry about my Superb when reading some posts

[peterposh]

Can you get reconditioned boxes or scrap ones? I think I'd try that route rather than pay 4k

[Jayelem]

My garage offered a second hand one, but it was still £2.5K. Not worth the risk. A better option would be to weld the failed case, but you're still stuck with a giant bill.  The bottom line is there are many cars waiting to fail.  If yours does, go to a dealer and shout "design fault"

[lichfielddriver]

Can you get reconditioned boxes or scrap ones? I think I'd try that route rather than pay 4k

 

 

Did the £4K inc a DMF+Clutch, all fluids and labour and VAT?

[bigjohn]

My garage offered a second hand one, but it was still £2.5K. Not worth the risk. A better option would be to weld the failed case, but you're still stuck with a giant bill.  The bottom line is there are many cars waiting to fail.  If yours does, go to a dealer and shout "design fault"

 

Did you get any warning signs / noise before yours dumped the oil on the road - if you did might be worth pinning this post as a warning to others?

[FLAPPERJACK7]

You sometimes hear a scraping noise before hand. You need to be fast if you can hear this scraping noise because it's already machining away the bell housing of the gearbox.

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It's only the 6 speed gearboxes with Sachs clutch.

Edited 25 October, 2015 by FLAPPERJACK7

[peterposh]

seems like a lot of money , I've just had a recon box fitted into my vivaro , the box was £650 plus labour of £270. The subframe has to come off as well

Edited 27 October, 2015 by peterposh

[John Phillips]

Just got my car back.  As a good will gesture they paid 70% of the total cost, which still meant that I had to pay £1200, which on reflection is a pretty good outcome, so I'm happy albeit £1200 lighter.

The first indication I had was clutch slip and an acrid smell of hot oil otherwise no previous signs of anything wrong.  I asked the service adviser if they had heard of this on any other occasions, but she said it was the first one she had come into the workshops in the two years she had been with the garage.

[numskull]

Just got my car back.  As a good will gesture they paid 70% of the total cost, which still meant that I had to pay £1200, which on reflection is a pretty good outcome, so I'm happy albeit £1200 lighter.

The first indication I had was clutch slip and an acrid smell of hot oil otherwise no previous signs of anything wrong.  I asked the service adviser if they had heard of this on any other occasions, but she said it was the first one she had come into the workshops in the two years she had been with the garage.

 

I think you've got a pretty good deal there, John. The oil pump went on our then 6y/o MKI with 99k. SUK paid for all the parts (£4k worth) and I paid the £1,100 labour charge. I was very happy with that, especially as the oil pump was the modified solid shaft unit, and gained a new turbo and its associated gubbins and yes, the full SUK dealer servicing was the key for sure according to the service manager.

[bigjohn]

Just got my car back.  As a good will gesture they paid 70% of the total cost, which still meant that I had to pay £1200, which on reflection is a pretty good outcome, so I'm happy albeit £1200 lighter.

The first indication I had was clutch slip and an acrid smell of hot oil otherwise no previous signs of anything wrong.  I asked the service adviser if they had heard of this on any other occasions, but she said it was the first one she had come into the workshops in the two years she had been with the garage.

 

As you have paid for part you should also get a two year warranty on the work done!

[cobreti]

Hmm, are these 170HP engines ?

[bigjohn]

Hmm, are these 170HP engines ?

 

Jayelem is shown as having a 140