The great VW diesel scandal. Will it affect resale values?

[JPH0091]

Are you sure your power plants mix in UK allows for full Electric cars to produce less CO2 than a petrol car?

I mean if you produce 75% of electricty from oil, there's no point to drive electric cars, is there?

Edited 9 October, 2015 by JPH0091

[JungleJames]

Yes, petrol is far less efficient than diesel but it is cleaner

Incorrect.

Both are as dirty as one another, in different ways.

 

As for noise and glow plugs. There are god knows how many diesels out there. People seemingly happy to buy them despite this apparent horrific noise and the load on glow plugs. Its never been a problem before, so why now? Answer, it isnt a problem.

[JPH0091]

All engines are equally dirty, but diesels are more equally dirty than others.

[Breezy_Pete]

All engines are equally dirty, but diesels are more equally dirty than others.

Unless you include emissions related to producing the fuel, at which point diesel suddenly looks quite a bit cleaner on every measure.

[Orville]

Incorrect.

Both are as dirty as one another, in different ways.

 

As for noise and glow plugs. There are god knows how many diesels out there. People seemingly happy to buy them despite this apparent horrific noise and the load on glow plugs. Its never been a problem before, so why now? Answer, it isnt a problem.

Diesel smells far more and is a bu66er to remove from skin & clothing. Fumes emitted from diesel engines are significantly more damaging to human health.

 

Diesel is dirtier and deadlier.

 

People looking to purchase a car for "green" reasons are hardly likely to want a diesel given the past few years of negative press. Major cities throughout Europe are braking EU emissions and safety targets predominantly because of diesel vehicles.

Edited 9 October, 2015 by Orville

[pipsyp]

You just end up getting petrol v diesel type bickering.....its just not worth it.

Diesels produce more particulate matter and NOx (though those levels are getting ever closer to petrol...though require complex emissions systems to do so).....petrols typically more CO2, NO and carcinogenic hydrocarbons. Petrols are really only getting cleaner through improvements in injection tech and downsizing/turbocharging.....a bit of a shame as the days of large capacity, multicylinder engines are becomming increasingly numbered and its these engines lets face it that us petrolheads really love.

Petrol/Diesel Hybrids and pure EV's are becoming more mainstream but then the pollution created to manufacture the Li-Ion cells these vehicles rely on is pretty bloody terrible too.....also when they begin to fail several years down the line you'll be faced a massive expense to replace.....and more damage by the old cells going off for "re-cycling".

I still think there is mileage in biofuel and Hydrogen fuel cell myself. Biofuel is massive in Brazil but then they have so much unpopulated land to grow crops in...and are probably destroying lots of forest to do so....so thats a not entirely a win either. Crash a fuel cell car you could destroy lots of things (and people) in your direct vicinity....not so great either. The boon though is zero reliance on fossil fuels.

I dont think we'll find the perfect end game for many years.

Edited 10 October, 2015 by pipsypreturns

[TomLux]

Not sure if this checker is correct, you can enter any VIN in it and you get an all clear e.g. try 'abcdefghi12345678'

 

I noticed that as well. I changed one digit in my VIN and it was still OK. So here's my thoughts on that:

1) it's their official site and they say it's fine. I have no other means to assess, so this will have to do.

2) I pretty much doubt that the system checks my/your VIN against the whole database. I would think that they have just created a database with all affected VIN. You enter anything that doesn't correspond to those VIN and the db gives back an "allclear".

 

Media frenzy always involves who's blood is in the water. Last week VW, this week Russia. Google 'Bread and circuses'.

Expecting the media to give a balanced and objective view, is like trusting a politician to have your best interest at heart.

 

In the UK maybe, but in German news there are literally articles every single day about VW and the scandal (admittedly some are just about the reorganisation of VW, which is just a byproduct of Müller taking over from Winterkorn)

[JungleJames]

Diesel smells far more and is a bu66er to remove from skin & clothing. Fumes emitted from diesel engines are significantly more damaging to human health.

 

Diesel is dirtier and deadlier.

 

People looking to purchase a car for "green" reasons are hardly likely to want a diesel given the past few years of negative press. Major cities throughout Europe are braking EU emissions and safety targets predominantly because of diesel vehicles.

The smell is down to taste. I know which smell i prefer, and it isnt petrol. Give me the smell from the back of a diesel any day.

Diesel deadlier? CO???? Hydrocarbons???? Sorry, but both of those are just as deadly, if not deadlier than NoX and particulates from diesels. Plus the amount of NoX and particulates from diesels is now quite low on EU6 cars. Not quite as low as petrols, but the gap is smaller than the gap to be found the other way with CO and hydrocarbons.

 

Sorry, but nowadays I cant really see how one is dirtier than the other. Its prettymuch down to the amount of fuel being burnt, and amount of CO2 (which also has an affect on the atmosphere so is another mark against petrols). 

[Orville]

The smell is down to taste. I know which smell i prefer, and it isnt petrol. Give me the smell from the back of a diesel any day.

Diesel deadlier? CO???? Hydrocarbons???? Sorry, but both of those are just as deadly, if not deadlier than NoX and particulates from diesels. Plus the amount of NoX and particulates from diesels is now quite low on EU6 cars. Not quite as low as petrols, but the gap is smaller than the gap to be found the other way with CO and hydrocarbons.

 

Sorry, but nowadays I cant really see how one is dirtier than the other. Its prettymuch down to the amount of fuel being burnt, and amount of CO2 (which also has an affect on the atmosphere so is another mark against petrols). 

linky & linky & linky, and there are hundreds more. Petrol emissions are bad, but diesel are far deadlier.

Edited 10 October, 2015 by Orville

[Dodgy]

It seems there are some posters confusing opinion with fact in this thread.

[M12MKD]

Yep I think we can safely say for now at least that an MQB car is safe.

For anyone still interested in the GTD v GTE debarcle (supposedly quicker than GTI....)......Ive done some looking up.

GTD

HP 181

Weight (as a 5 door DSG) 1425kg

Power to weight 129hp/ton

GTE

HP 201

Weight (5 door DSG only)......1599kg....yep you read that right straight from the VW brochure

Power to weight despite 20hp advantage...128hp/ton

Id wager once on the move there is very little to tell them apart.

A manual 5 door has a power to weight of 131hp/ton....the 3 door 134hp/ton......

I knew the GTE was heavy but almost bang on 1.6 ton.....that is one heavy Golf.

That is a lil porker of a golf!!

The Merc 350e adds 320kgs of weight over the automatic petrol model.

This is at the moment the problem with Hybrids, the extra weight.

[JungleJames]

linky & linky & linky, and there are hundreds more. Petrol emissions are bad, but diesel are far deadlier.

I looked at one link and quit. It was purely looking at diesels. I've never denied diesel is bad. But it never compared.

At the same time I could find links showing the opposite. So we shall just agree to disagree and I shall go round in the knowledge that I am committing mass murder with my diesel. Needless to say I don't feel guilty. Hopefully I don't end up in some high security prison

[classic]

Car values, petrol v diesel, NOX v CO, etc etc, it's all just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. The fact is that the countries which control the world are reliant on oil revenues for wealth. Therefore I don't expect any major changes quickly over this emission scandal. As cars depreciate like grand pianos off cliff edges it is the least concern in the whole debate.

[pipsyp]

I looked at one link and quit. It was purely looking at diesels. I've never denied diesel is bad. But it never compared.

At the same time I could find links showing the opposite. So we shall just agree to disagree and I shall go round in the knowledge that I am committing mass murder with my diesel. Needless to say I don't feel guilty. Hopefully I don't end up in some high security prison

You're using less of the worlds valuable oil resources doing so, ought to limit the guilt to some degree :-)

[pipsyp]

That is a lil porker of a golf!!

The Merc 350e adds 320kgs of weight over the automatic petrol model.

This is at the moment the problem with Hybrids, the extra weight.

I know crazy heavy mate :-)

Still of the mind that cars like these make 100% sense as a company car if you are able to exploit its zero emissions capability enough and charge it adequately; otherwise rather a compromise too far for me.

Certainly wouldnt go shelling out 30-odd K of my own money for one when a good few K less buys a perfectly good GTD or GTI with more standard kit....acknowledge there are some good lease deals about though.

[JungleJames]

You're using less of the worlds valuable oil resources doing so, ought to limit the guilt to some degree :-)

Ive got zero guilt as it is :-)

I am quite happy in the knowledge that im killing everybody in site by driving a diesel!! Plus I refuse to drive around London as it is busy enough as it is so I dont add to the particulates and NoX above London. That would be the only thing id feel bad about.

[Guest garpat32]

I know crazy heavy mate :-)

Still of the mind that cars like these make 100% sense as a company car if you are able to exploit its zero emissions capability enough and charge it adequately; otherwise rather a compromise too far for me.

Certainly wouldnt go shelling out 30-odd K of my own money for one when a good few K less buys a perfectly good GTD or GTI with more standard kit....acknowledge there are some good lease deals about though.

ok, we get it you love your GTD, (the GTE's slower cousin), but "30 -odd k" for a gte? for one, who pays book price these days?, secondly, there's the 5k government grant to come off that?

 

Like I said before, Free parking and electric all over the shop, zero tax to pay.

 

But choice is there for all, I've just clocked 3k miles from new, this last week, and total since I got the car I've put 160 ltrs of petrol in. (rounded that up as Ive only filled it 4 times)

 

Only a matter of time before they cotton on like and start taxing the electric!!

[Dodgy]

And we certainly 'get' that you like your GTE.

 

FWIW, I'll be going the hybrid route at the end of this PCP.

[Guest garpat32]

And we certainly 'get' that you like your GTE.

 

FWIW, I'll be going the hybrid route at the end of this PCP.

what's not to like mate!!

 

to be fair, if it wasn't for the cheap lease deal and free charging I'd have a GTI on lease.

 

[pipsyp]

what's not to like mate!!

to be fair, if it wasn't for the cheap lease deal and free charging I'd have a GTI on lease.

I think we do feel the same mate....if it werent for my silly annual mileage and a daft CO2 cap id probably be running an R on a cheap lease.

I do love my GTD but i'll openly admit its compromised compared to even a GTI....its slower, noisier, heavier....but I only pay BIK on it (which is quite low anyway) and it is v frugal regardless of how its driven for a 180 brake car. But I find its lower gears frustrating...has quite bad low rev lethargacy like most TDIs, power drops off the cliff after 4k rpm making it pointless to rev really hard and its pretty gruff until warm. All things I dont love about it.

Ive only been trying to state the same for the E as it is also compromised.....heavy...short all electric range and I bet its nothing like as frugal as the official figures if you tank it around in GTE mode everywhere without keeping it charged...and of course whilst there is lots of free electric out there youve got to have the physical means to be able to exploit that...not everyone can.

Like the D is compromised as a performance car by being a diesel (as the equivalent petrol motors almost always better their diesel counterparts for outright go and refinememt..if not perhaps efficiency), the E by very virtue of being a hybrid is also.

The GTI of course being the uncompromised choice.

[Guest garpat32]

People get hung up on the electric range, yeh, its 31 miles MAX, you can never do that in real life, BUT, its there to work alongside the petrol engine. I can quite easily drive round town in all electric mode, charge and never have to put petrol in at all.

 

But in the real world, the 31 miles blends into the mpg of the petrol, you dont drive the car until the battery is empty and then use the petrol, unless you are keeping around 30mph in the town then you put it into hybrid and let it sort itself out.

 

It uses petrol when under load, battery when it can, and both when needed.

 

You can also override the system. It does take a bit of getting used to when driving, knowing when best to change to regen, when to manually switch etc, 

 

GTE mode actually charges the battery when it can, it likes to keep it at around 20 miles of charge, and uses the battery as a boost. 

 

The build and quality feel miles ahead of the Octy I had, sad to say, and honestly throwing it around b roads you cant feel the extra battery weight.

[M12MKD]

And we certainly 'get' that you like your GTE.

FWIW, I'll be going the hybrid route at the end of this PCP.

Hope you have more luck than I did. I got so fed up of trying to buy one that I gave up and went for the Octavia.

Maybe a 3 years time I might again.

[JungleJames]

People get hung up on the electric range, yeh, its 31 miles MAX, you can never do that in real life, BUT, its there to work alongside the petrol engine. I can quite easily drive round town in all electric mode, charge and never have to put petrol in at all.

But in the real world, the 31 miles blends into the mpg of the petrol, you dont drive the car until the battery is empty and then use the petrol, unless you are keeping around 30mph in the town then you put it into hybrid and let it sort itself out.

It uses petrol when under load, battery when it can, and both when needed.

You can also override the system. It does take a bit of getting used to when driving, knowing when best to change to regen, when to manually switch etc,

GTE mode actually charges the battery when it can, it likes to keep it at around 20 miles of charge, and uses the battery as a boost.

The build and quality feel miles ahead of the Octy I had, sad to say, and honestly throwing it around b roads you cant feel the extra battery weight.

It all depends whatever suits your driving. For some an electro petrol will be an awful idea and use more fuel. For others it will be a perfect choice.

As for cost, adding in the 5k Grant is skewing it slightly. That could be removed at any time, plus the real cost is still high. What is the list price of the car? That is the best measure of car costs. Yes you may get that reduced, and the government may be nice to you, but originally it was an expensive car. Oh, and some people do pay list price thanks.

[Guest garpat32]

Well currently the 5k government grants are active so it's advertised at 33750 ish so 5k off that is down to 28750 ish.

I know it doesn't suit everyone's driving, I doubt there is a car that will.

But people dismiss hybrids without knowing a lot of the facts. The GTE specifically

[bytterga]

just watched the News and it semse like the newer volkswagon models (2016) are affected too. if there is skoda's involved this time wasnt mentioned.