So if its not enforced in the UK...no point in worrying about it

Ive never heard of Insurance Companies insisting on it either

UK Police often struggle to know the Laws of England and Wales then Scotland and Northern Ireland then various parts of the British Isles that are not in the UK, then vehicles from the Republic of Ireland in the UK,

let alone the EU Laws.

 

You get these things when the UK never fully joined the EU, the Euro Zone, went decimal but keeps to Miles, drives on the left and buys fuel in Litres, still like HP and not PS.

Has different MOT's and Traffic Laws and Speed Limits.

 

So you have C&U Legislation, and lots of rules that are supposed to cover many countries.

As long as the Tyres are legal and EU approved, and the Load and Speed ratings are suitable lots seem to be allowed to go as it is.

Edited 21 November, 201510 yr by goneoffSKion1

So if its not enforced in the UK...no point in worrying about it

Ive never heard of Insurance Companies insisting on it either

 

I've never known it enforced but that's not the same as it not being enforceable only need a jobsworth.

 

I have two 140mph cars with 130mph max rated winter tyres fitted so I set the Winter Tyre Speed rating a 130mph. So I'm legal.

 

As long as the Tyres are legal and EU approved, and the Load and Speed ratings are suitable lots seem to be allowed to go as it is.

 

I only came across the speed issue 5 years ago when I had a battle with Tesco Insurance and The ABI. The speed warning although an EU directive is part of UK Law and from memory I think it is part of the whole vehicle type approval.

 

Tesco refused to insure me at the time due to the lower speed rating stating I had invalidated the vehicles type approval by fitting tyres with a lower speed rating than the vehicles top speed. The ABI took up the issue on my behalf and sent me through the relevant legislation.

 

Will see if I can find it.

Edited 21 November, 201510 yr by logiclee

No need, i have read it all, Tyre fitters get shown it.

 

So there you go then, many have known for a long time, but then the Car Manufacturers never make a place for the Sticker,

the Tyre Manufacturers never produced stickers to go on the cars and the Governments never changed the MOT so that the testers checked for a Warning Message set on the car, or that a sticker was on, and in the UK even Police Cars have no Sticker if there is no 

warning message.

No need, i have read it all, Tyre fitters get shown it.

 

So there you go then, many have known for a long time, but then the Car Manufacturers never make a place for the Sticker,

the Tyre Manufacturers never produced stickers to go on the cars and the Governments never changed the MOT so that the testers checked for a Warning Message set on the car, or that a sticker was on, and in the UK even Police Cars have no Sticker if there is no 

warning message.

 

 

I have seen the stickers. I work for a German company and when our guys come over from Germany I've seen the stickers fitted to their vehicles.

 

But of course they have the chance to legally drive above that speed.

You get the Stickers from Various Owners clubs, Volvo, MG etc.

Getting the stickers is not an issue, and it is only where you are fitting lower Speed Rated tyres anyway, 

and with a UK NSL of a max of 70mph it is likely why it has never been an issue other than with Insurance Companies who until recently many had Winter Tyre fitments being a Safety Risk rather than a benefit to safety in the UK.

 

Maybe a Sticker should be on the Dash of every Private,Lease & Hire car or Van telling the Driver to see what tyres are on that day, and check the pressures before setting off.

& after the first time they take charge of that vehicle just to do it occasionally at least.

Edited 21 November, 201510 yr by goneoffSKion1

Several insurance companies have avoid full insurance pay outs buy showing car does not have correct speed spec tyres on for the top speed of the vehicle.

Are you saying Several Companies / Underwriters have refused to pay out on insurance claims where the vehicle in an accident in the UK 

had the wrong Speed or Load rated tyres fitted.

That is very likely, have you the link to this, or do you know the people, or did you read it someplace ?

 

Insurers refuse claims all the time for many reasons, sometimes wrongly.  Sometimes rightly so.

 Load & Speed ratings are there for a reason, as are people buying and fitting Winter tyres.

 

It is not as though you can not purchase the Tyres for your vehicle with the correct speed and load rating that will be suitable for use in the UK and Mainland Europe these days, plenty of choices out there.

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by goneoffSKion1

Are you saying Several Companies / Underwriters have refused to pay out on insurance claims where the vehicle in an accident in the UK 

had the wrong Speed or Load rated tyres fitted.

That is very likely, have you the link to this, or do you know the people, or did you read it someplace ?

 

Insurers refuse claims all the time for many reasons, sometimes wrongly.  Sometimes rightly so.

 Load & Speed ratings are there for a reason, as are people buying and fitting Winter tyres.

 

It is not as though you can not purchase the Tyres for your vehicle with the correct speed and load rating that will be suitable for use in the UK and Mainland Europe these days, plenty of choices out there.

 

It was a case of a friends accident and talking to the accident investigator.  When I was with DoT and HMRC the wheel tapper section would issue tickets for wrong spec tyres for the vehicles.  Something from Parkers, not the gospel but is long standing advice which has stood the test of time on a fairly reputable site. http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/advice/news/archive/is-your-insurance-valid/

 

Is your insurance valid?  -  25 August 2010 by Parkers Team

 

• The small details that could invalidate your insurance
• From modifying your car to misrepresentation
• You could quickly end up without valid insurance

Many people buy a new insurance policy and only briefly scan the terms and conditions. They then might assume that they’re cleared to drive their car, their neighbour’s car or even their wife’s car.  In many instances, unfortunately, this isn’t the case and it's all too easy to end up in a situation where your insurance is invalidated and you’re facing a hefty bill, penalty or worse.  So, what can invalidate your insurance?

 

Misrepresentation

This is the most common way of invalidating an insurance policy. It is when you inform the insurers of something that isn't true, be it that you park on the street and not in a garage as claimed, or giving incorrect details about your car.

Switching your job can also cause issues, as various jobs have different risks and consequently more expensive policies. You can also invalidate a policy if you don't report an accident that could result in someone making a claim - even if you've settled it yourself.

Fronting

As insurance is so high for young drivers 'fronting' is becoming increasingly common. This is where the parent insures their child's car in their own name and adds the child as a named driver. This process is fraudulent as the insurers have been misled and the policy will not have been priced according to the risk.

If you are caught then the insurer can cancel the policy or charge the extra premium as a lump sum. They can also refuse to pay out for any accidents that have occurred, which can lead to the younger driver being classed as uninsured and receiving a ban and a fine.

Exceeding your mileage limitations?

In the majority of cases it's not an issue if you exceed your mileage limitation - a simple phone call usually sorts it out. If you are involved in an accident though, and haven't declared the additional mileage, some insurers could deny the claim.

Modifying your car

Insurers charge higher premiums for modified cars, so not informing them of any changes to your car can be tempting, after all what's the worst that could happen?

If you don't inform them it can make a claim much more difficult and sometimes even void your policy. Even if you only do something minor like changing badges, insurers potentially have reason to invalidate your policy as the risk has changed.

Driving without a valid MOT

Driving without an MOT won't always make your insurance invalid. In most instances the insurers will still pay out in full - and if your car is stolen, or damaged, the payout will usually only be reduced to reflect the value of the car without a current MOT.

However, some policies state in the small print that an MOT must be in force. Only in instances where the vehicle has a fault which contributed to, or caused the accident, can the claim be rejected. Driving without an MOT does carry a potentially hefty fine though.

Driving without current tax disc

If a car has no road tax then insurers are still obliged to pay out for all claims. Despite committing an offence by not having tax, this is irrelevant to the accident and the insurer. A car can legally be on the road without tax if it's going to a pre-booked MOT test - during which the insurance is not invalidated.

Driving without a valid licence

If you drive your car without a valid or current licence then your insurance will be void. Likewise you can also invalidate a policy if you drive unattended on a provisional licence - as all policies carry a condition that state you must be supervised by a fully qualified driver.

Leaving your car unlocked

Almost all policies include a clause that will exclude cover if the keys are left in the vehicle, or if it is left unlocked and unattended. You may think that it's rare to leave your car unlocked or with the keys in it - but have you ever left it outside running to defrost during winter?

Driving without appropriate glasses

Drivers who need to wear glasses can invalidate their policy by driving without them - as you won't meet the requirements for your driving license.

Driving your own car abroad

Every policy in the UK will offer some degree of cover that allows you to drive in Europe - but the majority offered is third party only.

It's best to contact your insurer before you leave and tell them the details of your trip. They will then be able to tell you what level of cover you have and whether they can extend it to more comprehensive levels.

Driving your car on a track

Most policies exclude cover for motorsport or track use - including places such as the Nurburgring. Insurers usually put in clauses that prevent them from paying out any damages. They may still cover any third party involved - but you could end up footing the whole bill.

Driving with the wrong, or illegal tyres

By retrofitting a car, that came standard with run-flat tires with normal tyres, you can invalidate some policies as insurers see it as a modification. In most instances it's simply a case of telling them the change has been made. Fitting tyres that have a lower speed rating can also void a policy as they may not be suitable for use on that vehicle.

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by lol-lol

That is why Car Pounds & Secure Storage Areas are full of Vehicles awaiting inspection by Police and other Crash Investigators, Insurance Examiners and Loss Adjusters.

Cars Seized, Cars in Accidents etc, it has always been so, and now ECU are Investigated etc.

Having winter tyres with a lower speed rating than summer tyres doesn't necessarily make them unsuitable for use on the vehicle though.

In my case with Tesco a few years ag0 I had replaced 235/45x17 W rated summers with 205/55x16 H rated winters.

 

Tesco refused to cover me although they had published a winter tyre commitment on the ABI's website. They stated this was a modification.

 

I contacted the ABI and they got in touch with the Insurance ombudsman,

 

They confirmed that the 205/55x16 is the recommended and type approved size by VW for my car and under EU and UK law it is permitted to fit lower speed rating tyres as long as the driver has an electronic or visual warning.

 

It only took a few days but I got a phone call from a Tesco Customer Service manager, he basically apologised and said their call centres and systems were still a little behind when it came to winter tyre fitment but training was ongoing. 

I also received letters from Tesco and the ABI explaining the situation.

Obviously Tesco covered me without any increased premium.

 

Regards

Lee

Having winter tyres with a lower speed rating than summer tyres doesn't necessarily make them unsuitable for use on the vehicle though.

 

Most winter tyres, and All weather, are often H rated I find ie up to 130 mph. I am personally always looking to have the All Season/Winters with a rating on or above the vehicle's spec so load rating same or the XL version and the speed rating  as V rated ie up to 149 mph although the Face Lift Mk 2 petrol VRS was actually capable of over 150 officially so should use W, Y or Zs.  

 

Harder to find V rated and above All Season or Winters but I like source them and then feel I am ticking all the boxes.  Of the currently fleet on the Jaaaag is capable of over 130 mph (not sure what to try that on a 12 year old engine/chassis until I have full gone through the brakes and steering.  

Germany must have a interesting dilemma.  Cars expected to be on All Seasons/Winters from November but lots lof them capable and allowed to do 150 mph/ 250 kph or more even in Winter when the roads are clear.  Tyres are out there that are this format and speed rating but easy to end up with the wrong tyres as even the tyre retailer's search engines often suggest sub rated tyres even when you ask for V rated if there is nothing that ticks all you search parameters, something to watch out for. 

Well my 2.0 TDI has a top speed of 135, and hasn't yet done more than 100.

It would be interesting to see an insurance company argue that tyres rated to 130 are unsuitable to be used on UK roads at no more than 70mph.

lol-lol,

I think you will cope and find a solution, a man with skills and ability to source what you need.

 

As to Tecso Insurance Provider / Underwriter or Call Centres, and not know their arse from their elbow, 

that is par for the course.

When they apologize that does not mean that they correct errors and do not continue as before with Call Handlers 

mis-informing Customers.

 

I was think of the EU Legislation and a 'Sticker' as a Winter Tyre fitted warning and UK Cars going to Germany, and German Registered cars in the UK.

?

Is the sticker in every Language used in EU Countries so anyone from any country can read the 'Winter Tyres Fitted;  sticker.

or is it done by Symbols. (Easy to understand.)   

? What did the Civil Servants put in the Legislation as the Spec.?

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by goneoffSKion1

 

Germany must have a interesting dilemma.  Cars expected to be on All Seasons/Winters from November but lots lof them capable and allowed to do 150 mph/ 250 kph or more even in Winter when the roads are clear. 

 

That's why Germany enforce the Driver warning legislation so the driver knows the maximum speed of the tyres. W, Z and Y rated winters don't exist in most sizes.

 

Same goes for countries in Northern Europe where some snow and studded tyres can be rated as low as 50mph.

 

Lee

lol-lol,

I think you will cope and find a solution, a man with skills and ability to source what you need.

 

As to Tecso Insurance Provider / Underwriter or Call Centres, and not know their arse from their elbow, 

that is par for the course.

When they apologize that does not mean that they correct errors and do not continue as before with Call Handlers 

mis-informing Customers.

 

I was think of the EU Legislation and a 'Sticker' as a Winter Tyre fitted warning and UK Cars going to Germany, and German Registered cars in the UK.

?

Is the sticker in every Language used in EU Countries so anyone from any country can read the 'Winter Tyres Fitted;  sticker.

or is it done by Symbols. (Easy to understand.)   

? What did the Civil Servants put in the Legislation as the Spec.?

 

A couple.

Well my 2.0 TDI has a top speed of 135, and hasn't yet done more than 100.

It would be interesting to see an insurance company argue that tyres rated to 130 are unsuitable to be used on UK roads at no more than 70mph.

 

They could argue, like with my Fabia VRS, I took it abroad, where I could have done 140 mph, damaged the tyres if they were only H rated, but this did not manifest itself until the accident.

 

The insurance companies have years of experience of evading pay outs and will use all the tricks to not pay.  if you do not like keep pushing, take them to court if you can afford to.  It is why it is good to have legal cover like I have with the CSMA. 

Logiclee,

Lovely.

Coming in MPH to a Skoda, VW, Seat, Audi Main Dealership soon in the UK , where they offer those Winter Tyre Packages inside the Showroom 

with lower Speed / Load Ratings than the vehicle comes with as standard.

A couple.

 

 

 

Love the idea of doing 240 kph in/on Mud and Snow.  I am no  Sebastian Ogier sadly.  

Now you are being silly for the sake of it are you not.

The point is about what the tyres might be asked to do when it is not winter conditions,

ie on all the times when the M+S usage is not relevant, dry roads summer roads, 

those unlimited speed roads,  'A Warning of the Tyres on the Car, or that 'The Sticker is fitted but you better still 

look and see, because the Semi Slick Track Tyres might still be on the car'.

Is that not what all this theory is about in this thread.

Edited 22 November, 201510 yr by goneoffSKion1

Logiclee,

Lovely.

Coming in MPH to a Skoda, VW, Seat, Audi Main Dealership soon in the UK , where they offer those Winter Tyre Packages inside the Showroom 

with lower Speed / Load Ratings than the vehicle comes with as standard.

 

Although most VAG products have the Electronic speed warning facility. So no sticker required.

Love the idea of doing 240 kph in/on Mud and Snow.  I am no  Sebastian Ogier sadly.  

 

 

How about a don't go faster than 300 sticker?

Love the idea of doing 240 kph in/on Mud and Snow.  I am no  Sebastian Ogier sadly.  

You need this sticker: