Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[Ryeman]

But the software update could remap the car and change performance/mpg. He doesn't say that it's only a removal of the cheat.

Consuming more of its own exhaust to lower combustion temps and thus NOx will not be at the expense of economy but (unsaid) power.

The fiddle was to make the EGR do its job correctly during the 'identified' test procedure but not once back on the road.

The 'identification' process acted like a switch.....on/off

[StreetHawk]

Consuming more of its own exhaust to lower combustion temps and thus NOx will not be at the expense of economy but (unsaid) power.

The fiddle was to make the EGR do its job correctly during the 'identified' test procedure but not once back on the road.

The 'identification' process acted like a switch.....on/off

No idea what that means but I'm pretty sure it doesn't confirm that VW have stated they will only remove the cheat software and not effect the cars performance / mpg.

[Ryeman]

No idea what that means but I'm pretty sure it doesn't confirm that VW have stated they will only remove the cheat software and not effect the cars performance / mpg.

They only specified maintenance of economy (CO2 emissions.?)

No mention of power other than a small reduction.....they REALY don't want to admit that.

[StreetHawk]

They only specified maintenance of economy (CO2 emissions.?)

No mention of power other than a small reduction.....they REALY don't want to admit that.

Ok so we are in agreement that VW haven't said they are removing just the cheat.

I think it's a point worth clarifying as some are stating is as fact on here so it could mislead others.

Edited 14 October, 2015 by StreetHawk

[67igor1]

No idea what that means but I'm pretty sure it doesn't confirm that VW have stated they will only remove the cheat software and not effect the cars performance / mpg.

 

The fiddle was to make the EGR do its job correctly during the 'identified' test procedure but not once back on the road.

The 'identification' process acted like a switch.....on/off

If that switch will be removed... EGR (and other things) will work correctly all time... mean engine will consume more exhaust gases and less oxygen... mean less power and torq.

Less power and torq mean longer acceleration from 0 - 60 mph, mean in real driving world most often accelerating to put car in the some performance but less mpg...

Edited 14 October, 2015 by 67igor1

[gadgetman]

An EGR pulses, so keeping open all the time will wear it out LESS

[Chorlton]

I'd be very surprised if tuners covered this FOC.

Why?  They already have your money for the map - a reflash takes a couple of minutes for most vehicles.  If it's ECU out on the bench then I can forsee a charge.

[brownfox]

Somebody posted it will be hard to prove loss of performance? Why surely a rolling road printout before and after software change will show if there's any difference.?

[Clunkclick]

And how the hell have vw still got

" by appointment of her majesty the queen " ? That should be taken away !

Bourgeois equivalent of a plain brown envelope ?

 

Snippet from this week's PE - "Car makers are not only good for our economy but for our politicians. At Party conventions, car producers rent the largest exhibition stalls for huge fees. They also pay generously for adverts in the rarely read party magazines. Volkswagen is especially prominent in both areas. Then there are the donations. The Quandt family, which owns almost about half of BMW, gave 690,000 Euro to Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) for the 2013 Bundestag elections. BMW also donates large sums to both the Christian Social Democrats, as does Daimler (Mercedes Benz).

 

What Volkswagen doesn't donate, it makes up for with lucrative jobs. Merkel's former Office Manager, Michael Jansen, was recently named Head of Volkswagen's lobbying Berlin. Its all part of the Volkswagen philosophy of fair play: Head of Volkswagen's lobbying overall is Thomas Steg, former press spokesman for the previous Social Democrat Chancellor Gerhard Schroder. Whichever party is in power, Volkswagen keeps everybody happy. Daimler's new Head Lobbyist, Eckart Von Klaeden, received his contract while still working as Merkel's Chancellery minister.

 

Car makers get value for money. Chancellor Merkel receives briefings in the form of "Dear Angela" letters from Matthias Wissman , now head of German car maker lobbying organisation VDA but also a member of Merkel's CDU and a former Transport Minister.

 

One of the first measures adopted by our Government during the financial crisis was a 5,000,000,000 Euro programme enabling owners  of dirty old bangers to trade them in for cleaner, greener, models; about a third of the cash went for cars produced by Volkswagen and its brands. This was followed by the suspension of motor vehicle tax  for new cars for a year.

 

New legislation drafted by the EU on car and truck safety, fuel efficiency and emission tests and limits has been watered down by successive German governments. As late as May this year, Merkel's Administration  produced two position papers for the EU concerning the introduction of the new CO2 Test WLTP ( Worldwide Harmonised  Light Vehicles Test Procedure) to be phased in as of 2017, containing the demands of the car lobbying organisation, the European Automobiles Manufacturers' Association, which might even had enabled the postponement of WLTP. This would give Volkswagen more time to improve its software for petrol motors.:independent on-the-road tests showed that fuel consumption and CO2 values had major discrepancies (Reminiscent of the US NO2 tests) in comparison with results rendered on a dynamometer.

 

The industry is betting that the current Volkswagen scandal will have limited consequences in Germany beyond empty rhetoric. Things could become interesting though if the US imposes fines comparable to those against BP or applies to Germany to have VW managers extradited. 'Dear Angela' could then have her work cut out for her."

 

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And then who will be waiting in the wings ? - http://nh3fuelassociation.org/

 

Lots of large Dairy farm "Honey pits" in the good 'ole US of A., the Urea from which will provide the feedstock for ammonia production. "Breaker, breaker . . . suits on, there's been a "Hot" spillage on 66."

 

Same old, same old, with the customer coming last.

 

 

Nick

Edited 14 October, 2015 by Clunkclick

[Scribbler]

Somebody posted it will be hard to prove loss of performance? Why surely a rolling road printout before and after software change will show if there's any difference.?

 

Not necessarily if they put a spike in the rev range that hits 170bhp on the graph then the print out will say its got 170bhp and VW are off the hook. However if you were to overlay the graphs before and after I suspect that the rest of the rev range wouldn't match. Therefore when they do the NOX road test it will pass and pass on the dyno however the drive might be completely different and sluggish. Last thing I want is a narrow powerband its not a vtec.

Like I said people are focusing too much on the numbers drivability is much harder to prove and quantify.

[Clunkclick]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_harmonized_Light_vehicles_Test_Procedures

 

 

Nick

[Clunkclick]

If all the indicators are pointing towards limited rev and power bands as  being the most emission friendly, but having the downside of producing poor driveability in the current closely coupled engine/transmission setup, then why not go the whole hog and de-couple the engine from the transmission, highly tune the hydrocarbon engine (Or whatever)  and get it powering an electrical generator to supply electric motors. That's what HMS floaty boaties have being doing for years. Better economy thru engine tuning and weight saving.

 

 

Nick

Edited 14 October, 2015 by Clunkclick

[Ryeman]

If all the indicators are pointing towards limited rev and power bands as being the most emission friendly, but having the downside of producing poor driveability in the current closely coupled engine/transmission setup, then why not go the whole hog and de-couple the engine from the transmission, highly tune the hydrocarbon engine (Or whatever) and get it powering an electrical generator to supply electric motors. That's what HMS floaty boaties have being doing for years. Better economy thru engine tuning and weight saving.

Nick

Automotive News has a story that VW is now going to go to more hybrid options.

Including plugins.

Edited 14 October, 2015 by Ryeman

[Ootohere]

Still confused why anyone in the UK with a remapped car is taking it to a VWG oficial 'Fixer; for a fix',  

you have no Manufacturers Engine Warranty Valid anyway.

 

If you have a good road legal car now, and it passes MOT's, and the UK Government said your VED rate is not going up,

what do you want to change things for?

[Ryeman]

The models certification has been removed and yours is on record........maybe

[Ootohere]

'Maybe!'.

"There are no safety issues or reason not to use your vehicle!" Nae rush, nae bather, just a little hassle.

 

What Certification has been removed in the UK which is part of the EU sometimes, and other times just gets on with being the UK, and is as usual scrambling to be able to find ways of doing nothing.

 

We await anything happening where 'Registered Keepers in the UK must take a vehicle in for anything than a normal UK MOT'.

That will put upon the UK Government quite a responsibility to ensure that VW, Skoda, Audi, Seat are doing 

thing properly, lots of testing and guarantees. 

Loss of Earnings, loss of value, compensation etc.

 

The Volkswagen Group  or maybe just Skoda UK and Alasdair Stewart Skoda UK Brand Director are already sending letters to owners of the wrong cars,  Euro 4 vehicles.

 

CAN NOT ORGANISE A PITH UP IN A BREWERY as usual with the UK Government,  Department for Transport, DVSA / DVLA & Volkswagen.

Not fit for purpose and as well to avoid when ever possible.

[vxh26]

Still confused why anyone in the UK with a remapped car is taking it to a VWG oficial 'Fixer; for a fix',  

you have no Manufacturers Engine Warranty Valid anyway.

 

If you have a good road legal car now, and it passes MOT's, and the UK Government said your VED rate is not going up,

what do you want to change things for?

To demand compensation from wicked VAG for their terrible pain and mental torment?

[Scribbler]

To demand compensation from wicked VAG for their terrible pain and mental torment?

 

But you can do that without letting VAG techs lay a finger on your car. Only people I can see taking in their cars to have the 'FIX' are the ill informed technophobes and people who care about the bunnies and trees or respiratory issues in fellow humans.

[tom74]

I have remapped Superb 170, drives nicely torque great, average economy in last 100 driving hours is 58MPG, I do weekly city miles and then motorway one on weekends, passes all MOT tests and UK norms so definitely will not be taking mine only to remove a cheat code which is useless in UK anyway,

[JohnMcL7]

If all the indicators are pointing towards limited rev and power bands as  being the most emission friendly, but having the downside of producing poor driveability in the current closely coupled engine/transmission setup, then why not go the whole hog and de-couple the engine from the transmission, highly tune the hydrocarbon engine (Or whatever)  and get it powering an electrical generator to supply electric motors. That's what HMS floaty boaties have being doing for years. Better economy thru engine tuning and weight saving.

 

 

Nick

 

I would assume there's a lot of difficulty producing a system that's light, efficient and reliable in something as small as a car plus the benefits are not as likely as large either, gas turbine systems have a large drop off in efficiency when they're not running at their peak speed which standard car engines do not suffer as badly.  

 

I agree it makes sense to split the engine and the propulsion system and I'm sure we'll see it in time, Jaguar had a concept car that used a pair of gas turbines with four electric motors:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75

 

The FIA WEC cars have been progressing with increasingly powerful electric systems and smaller petrol/diesel engines, I wonder how far they'll go as there's a lot of performance potential in essentially having an electric system when the combustion engine is purely producing power.

 

Have the details of the recall being confirmed?  I've seen a few references saying the 1.6TDI will need hardware changes but not the 2.0 TDI but I can't see a source for that.

 

John

Edited 14 October, 2015 by JohnMcL7

[Ootohere]

The BMW i3 is an Electric Vehicle,

and the BMW i3 Extender is the same Electric Vehicle and the Petrol Generator produces Electricity.

Run it on petrol to charge the power pack to run the motor, it is a petrol car really, no more no less.

[djj777]

Sky News is reporting that VW has stated that 2016 diesel models may have software that could help exhaust systems run cleaner in tests.  It involves the "auxiliary emissions control device" apparently

[Ootohere]

Is that the current Euro 6 2016 models now designed, being built and on sale or ready to be available when the order books open?

[gadgetman]

The BMW i3 is an Electric Vehicle,

and the BMW i3 Extender is the same Electric Vehicle and the Petrol Generator produces Electricity.

Run it on petrol to charge the power pack to run the motor, it is a petrol car really, no more no less.

But should do more mpg?

[Ootohere]

Should, would, could or might.

The Road test showing taking a car on a long trip where you can not gets the chargers to work, so needing to be  running 

on petrol to be able to continue a journey shows them doing about 40 MPG, so less than a 1.4 TSI ACT / COD.

Yes were you can run on Charged Electric from a Power Point, and then the Petrol as required you get more MPG maybe, 

but really the generator uses what ever petrol it needs to get the power charged.

 

EDIT.

I see SKY are reporting on VW Admitting more in the US about Newer models than the previous admission.