VW Emissions Scandal Thread V2

[Breezy_Pete]

Got any links to those reports?
I guess airports do attract a fair amount of road traffic, but I'd be fall-off-my chair surprised if the aircraft aren't significant contributors to local NOx levels.

 

Edit: Google says I'm not barking up the wrong tree, see here for example. 70% of local NOx comes from aircraft activity, not even including after their wheels have left the ground.

 

I know this is wildly OT, but it is interesting to see that there are big players other than road transport impacting our NOx-related air quality.

Edited 17 January, 2016 by Wino

[lol-lol]

Got any links to those reports?

I guess airports do attract a fair amount of road traffic, but I'd be fall-off-my chair surprised if the aircraft aren't significant contributors to local NOx levels.  Edit: Google says I'm not barking up the wrong tree, see here for example. 70% of local NOx comes from aircraft activity, not even including after their wheels have left the ground.   I know this is wildly OT, but it is interesting to see that there are big players other than road transport impacting our NOx-related air quality.

 

I think the 70% is that 70% of the NOX from the airport comes from the aircraft and only 30% from local traffic etc but what it also says is:-

 

 

"Traffic not aircraft

Data from the Hillingdon monitoring station shows that non-airport traffic generates more than twice as much NOx as all airport sources combined. At the Hayes monitoring station, non-airport traffic is responsible for more than six times as much NOx as all airport sources combined. Emissions from airborne aircraft are negligible at ground level. Once an aircraft rises above 100m, pollutants disperse rapidly throughout the atmosphere. They have no effect on air quality at ground level."

 

 

There are significant measures to reduce the CO2, NOX etc from all airport sources ie aircraft, biuldings, airside vehicles.  I think the "other" major sources of NOX, a part from light diesel vehicles, ie Agriculture and some industry.

Edited 17 January, 2016 by lol-lol

[mjh69]

Pollutants aside. Why shud honest people who spent hard earned money on these cars have them possibly screwed up? I didnt buy it for the emissions i bought it cos i like the car. Now i cant afford to change it. So why shud i be left with a diff car to what i bought

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[lol-lol]

Pollutants aside. Why shud honest people who spent hard earned money on these cars have them possibly screwed up? I didnt buy it for the emissions i bought it cos i like the car. Now i cant afford to change it. So why shud i be left with a diff car to what i bought

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You should not have to pay and VW / Skoda etc should provide you with a car that meets the criteria the sold it too you ie fuel consumption, power, and emissions.  If they cannot make the diesel met the Regs then they should give you the equivalent model ie newer diesel with SCR or TSI or cash refund to go and but a BMW or is legally compliant and fuel, Ad BLu etc different costs for a period of your lease or reasonable ie 5 years or whatever of having bought the car for.  VW cheated, VW pay.  

[mjh69]

Yes i agree.... But. We all know that wont happen.

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[Ryeman]

Now a report just in says Germany's Economy Minister wants to spend €2billion on promoting electric cars and charging station infrastructure.

A big change of heart for them.

And a signal.

[lol-lol]

Yes i agree.... But. We all know that wont happen.

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It is going to happen in the US and VAG will offer the swaps.  The US knows current diesel technology cannot be made to comply to low NOX and PMs so swapping out the diesels for petrol versions looks the way forward and with fuel looking like it will 42p (yes that is 42p a litre or £1.89 a Uk gallon) for a yar or two to come,  and with the TSIs being pretty good on fuel too I cannot se many people complaining or it cost VW much to pay for any difference between diesel and petrol.  But with 11M cars in the EU, compared to half a million in the US, and fuel being between two and three times more over here one cannot see VAG doing that and surviving financial hence why they are playing for time, kicking in to the long grass. 

Edited 17 January, 2016 by lol-lol

[mjh69]

I hope your rite about swaps in the uk cos as much as i love my car this has been a nightmare i cud do without.

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[mjh69]

Sorry misread ur post. No it prob wont happen in this country. So im stuck with all this. Cos cant afford to change my car. Kinda wish id never bought it now. Bloody vag and their lies

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[Tony R]

It is the recognition that NOX and PM pollution, mainly from light diesel is causing approx 10,000 premature deaths per year in the London area and about 30,000 premature deaths throughout the UK

 

                I am not challenging you, but where is the proof of these contentions. How is it possible to  equate  supposed deaths due to light diesel compared to any other sort of diesel, how is it proven  the specific number of deaths are due to diesel and caused earlier than otherwise would be, and the same applies to  those  in the rest of the country. Someone is making a dogmatic statement which I would say is nowt but supposition. Is there evidence in the lungs of diesel particles as there is  of nicotine/tar  with smokers. And on that aspect, plus now we are told alcohol of any amount is an earlier killer, what about Churchill who had about the most  arduous job in the world,   drank a  bottle of champagne for breakfast, bottles of other  " fortifiers " during the day, smoked like a chimney, and how old was he when he passed, 90+ what? Genes are more likely the  cause ( and Golda Meir, 80 cigs a day, 4 hours sleep and running a country besieged with sworn enemies )

[Tony R]

3 or 4 years ago, the mothers of two Chinese friends of mine in Ealing ( West London nr Heathrow ) came to join their sons for a holiday. I invited them all for a dinner and asked what their mothers thought of London, can't believe how clean and clear the air is, was part of the answer. They came from Guandong, not Beijing.

[Ryeman]

The WHO and now govt's around the world are going to do whatever has to be done to reduce the obvious particulate emissions.

I doubt that they will discriminate much and, in any case, the 2017 standards and CARB 2020 standards are forcing a rethink on sustainability OR diesel R&D value-for-money equation.

The German govt's breakthrough decision to initiate pro-battery vehicle sales and infrastructure is a BIG signal to Germany's auto manufacturing sector.......and they are not averse to the change -witness the ePorsche for just one.

CI gasoline is being researched though, so maybe there is an extender there.

[Ootohere]

The Volkswagen Group are having to try and defend the New CEO now after his terrible negotiation skills in the US, 

and it does not look like they are getting their own way in Europe or other World Regions.

 

They should maybe try harder with the New Honesty and less trying to get every 'possible new vehicle they ever considered building' in the news.

Fix their cheats and vehicles people have now and then they might win trust.

[mjh69]

Yes i agree. Hopefully the liars and cheats wont win

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[steve20bore]

 

No real surprise.

 

 

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2016/01/car-emissions-is-nobody-clean-430938/

 

 

Which? findings - the truth behind emissions.

 

In light of the recent emissions scandal, we extracted and analysed detailed emissions data for over 300 cars that we’ve tested since 2012, in order to find out what cars are really emitting into our atmosphere.

 

Despite all of the vehicles officially complying with recent EU emission regulations (either Euro 5 or the tougher Euro 6 depending on the age of car) our realistic testing found there is a chasm like gap between what is claimed and what is pumped into our air:

 

• Staggeringly, nearly all (95%) the diesel cars emitted more oxides of nitrogen (NOx) during our tests than official limits allow.  One car, the Jeep Grand Cherokee, emitted 15 times as much NOx as the Euro 5 limit;

• One in 10 (10%) petrol cars also emitted more NOx than limits allow;

• Two-thirds (65%) of petrol cars emit more Carbon Monoxide than the 2006 limit (Euro 4), with one model, the Hyundai Veloster, producing five times the legal limit in our tests;

• Despite being a hybrid, the Peugeot 508 RXH also creates more NOx than EU limits. Several petrol hybrids (the worst being the Lexus LS) also create more CO than limits would allow;

• 38 of the cars we tested were even unable to meet the ‘Euro 1’ emissions standards from 1993.

 

Best Buys removed

In January 1993, 'Euro 1' came into force, and specified emission limits that cars had to meet. In January 1997, Euro 2 replaced it with progressively tougher (lower) limits. In turn, this was superseded by Euro 3 in January 2001, Euro 4 by January 2006, Euro 5 in January 2011 and most recently Euro 6 in September 2015. (All dates refer to new car registrations).

 

We’ve found that of the cars we’ve tested, all of which are officially compliant with either Euro 5 or Euro 6, 85 exceed Euro 3 limits in our tests. This means these 85 cars do not pass the earliest emission regulations from this century. Five of which had previously performed well in enough in areas like performance and ride comfort to be named as Best Buys – but in light of our findings, we have now removed Best Buy awards from these cars.

 

Find out more about which cars are the biggest producers of CO and NOx by heading to our guide on car emissions.

 

VW ‘Dieselgate’update

At the same time, we have also removed Best Buy awards from 23 Volkswagen Group cars following the dieselgate scandal. These 23 cars are all Euro 5 models that have been implied in the current scandal.

 

What’s to blame?

Once again, it’s the tests that are to blame.  The reason the figures don’t match up with the legal limits is the outdated New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) test. This is the same official test used to measure official fuel economy (mpg), which we’ve repeatedly criticised for being lenient and exploitable.

 

Our assessments also take place in a lab but, in contrast, we use more challenging and realistic driving cycles than the NEDC, based on the new test we are pushing for the industry to adopt. We will also be adding on-the-road emissions tests in the future.

 

 

 

Steve.

[camelspyyder]

 

So why have VW been taken to the cleaners and not the really bad offenders named here by Which?

[Ryeman]

^^^^^ lying over an installed cheating method and over by a factor of ~35.

Don't get hung up by the fact that 'they're all over' ......it's all about VW's cheating and being perceived to have lied about their cheating method.

[Aspman]

Wonder if it is an age thing? Was Which testing new cars to get its results.

 

I doubt Jeep will be happy if the find out which was using a 2011 Cherokee with 300k on the clock.

[ColinD]

I know a bit of time has elapsed. If there is anything from the old topic thread you wanted to refresh your memory on, you can now.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/379190-breaking-vw-emissions-scandal-mk-i/

[vxh26]

Pollutants aside. Why shud honest people who spent hard earned money on these cars have them possibly screwed up? I didnt buy it for the emissions i bought it cos i like the car. Now i cant afford to change it. So why shud i be left with a diff car to what i bought.

 

I think you will find that what Skoda/VAG are being told to do / will be told to do is ensure that their cars conform to the emissions figures to which they said they did conform.

 

I don't believe any Government could really care less about top speed / acceleration /BHP / torque and they clearly couldn't care less about MPG figures which all intelligent lifeforms know are complete fiction.

 

It is suggested that NOx emissions have enormous health implications and frankly you damned well should care about that.

[mjh69]

Well i dont. I want my car to perform as it does and mpg as it does not be screwed up

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[Ryeman]

I know a bit of time has elapsed. If there is anything from the old topic thread you wanted to refresh your memory on, you can now.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/379190-breaking-vw-emissions-scandal-mk-i/

Heavens-to-betsy- back from the dead.....just a quick read.

[JohnMcL7]

 

So why have VW been taken to the cleaners and not the really bad offenders named here by Which?

 

This isn't the first test to show this, I think it was one of the German tests that showed 195 out of 200 cars failing to meet the limit they were certified and many were far over the limit.  I think there's two reasons why VW are getting hammered and others aren't, the first is that it seems so far VW were the only one actually cheating with a defeat device whereas others are just excessively bending the rules and secondly most people just aren't aware of the high Nox emissions of other vehicles.  I frequently see people complaining that they wouldn't have bought a VW if they'd known the Nox emissions were so high when in reality there's plenty just as bad or worse out there, whether people genuinely mean that or are just angling for compensation though I don't know.

[Ootohere]

It will hardly be angling for compensation if compensation is due to vehicle owners, like if 'the fix' has the vehicle performing less well, using more fuel, losing more in depreciation than before the VWG had to admit to being cheats, liars and vagabonds.

 

The VWG are having to recompense Governments where they lost out on Taxes & Duty, and the Share Holders and Investors should be the ones taking the hit in the pocket, but sadly that will include Pension Funds and the likes Investments, so the Public pays to refund the public.

 

EU Regulators, Commissioners, Elected Members and Courts might decide on what is due to who in the EU and not Board Members of the Volkswagen Group.

 

If Customers lost out on nothing but actually gained by paying less in Taxes because of the EU Test results being pure pi55 it is unlikely 

many will be offering to pay that back personally to their Governments Treasury.

[jlwah]

Also, as US car manufacturers are so behind the curve on emissions, it deflects the scrutiny of their own car industry (and helps protect it) if the US government keep the pressure on VW.