And CO2 for aircraft

http://m.atwonline.com/regulation/icao-moves-forward-emissions-regulations?NL=ATW-04&Issue=ATW-04_20160209_ATW-04_783&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1_b&utm_rid=CPEN1000000426856&utm_campaign=4920&utm_medium=email&elq2=b18fcde45499447a9532f865c4d514e6

That is a classic case of "He started it miss".

All this emissions stuff is scaremongering and rubbish. Governments say loads and in the endwil do nothing. I for one will not be having the update done

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All this emissions stuff is scaremongering and rubbish. Governments say loads and in the endwil do nothing. I for one will not be having the update done

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Wish it was not true but it is that diesels without SCR/Ad Blu system produce significant NOX that is lethal to human by the thousand per year and steps will be taken to ensure those cars with registrations not comply to the ULEZ requirements are fined/charged when entering cities.

 

I see the VW quality guy has finally got the bullet. 

VW quality assurance boss resigns amid Dieselgate

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1160209103782/vw-quality-assurance-boss-resigns-amid-dieselgate

How can they fine/charge anyone when they have effectively let the manufaturers off the hook. Wheres the incentive to have the update done? And why shud i lose £345 on a remap cos of beurocracy and politics?

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How can they fine/charge anyone when they have effectively let the manufaturers off the hook. Wheres the incentive to have the update done? And why shud i lose £345 on a remap cos of beurocracy and politics?

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As I understand it VW is footing the bill for all the under-declared CO2, some vehicles by by one tax group others by two tax groups which takes some cars from about £35 pa to the £120 pa.

 

NOX is not currently taxed but it is very much more lethal than CO2.  In the light of all the relatively recent information on NOX it is expected that the ULEZ, in London but also many other larger cities, will be expanded to included all densely populated areas.  https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone#on-this-page-0 

 

As to vehicle owners adapting their vehicles the law has tried to make this increasingly difficult with harder to bypass EMUs.  Most "tuners" have legal text in their T&Cs saying they are not responsible in the event of law changes.   I would expect vehicles non compliant with ULEZs will find their way to being used in the countryside.  Since I work at Heathrow much of the time we are keen to see pollution improved sooner rather than later.  We know the test NOX, may Dacia Logan TCE is 10 mg/km and even the 2.5 litre Jag is only 34 mg/CO2 according to the V5 so well within the 80mg/km exiting level and the Dacia/Renault TCE I would expect will meet ULEZ levels but the Jag not.

 

Vehicles are charges will be at least this below and Zac Goldsmith wants the ULEZ much expanded, perhaps to almost the M25 in many areas.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle?intcmp=32646

Edited 10 February, 201610 yr by lol-lol

All this emissions stuff is scaremongering and rubbish.

 

Really?

 

REALLY?

 

Governments say loads and in the endwil do nothing.

 

Dead people neither vote or donate to political parties; motor manufacturers may occasionally do the latter

Peoples savings, pensions, investments and their Countries Treasury money (peoples) is Invested in Vehicle Manufactures Companies / Corporations.

Then Elected Politicians and Members of Royal Families and the like have cash money in shareholdings and Investments.

 

Many many people including ones without cars can be tied up in the losses, 

and even have their hard earned used to pay out on Fines and Law Suits where they are both actually the offended against and part of who 

benefit from the frauds that were allowed to go on with Governments acting the same as Car Manufacturers Management,

& that is like 3 Monkeys.

The Norwegians got it right; they invested for all their people and now have a guarantee for life with their interlaced investing model.

Not so much 'free enterprise' though but globalisation and free trade won't drag them down either.

Norway has a population of approx. 5m - about 22% of Australia, and 8% of the UK.

 

Easy to "invest in all their people" when they have (had) massive income from from oil to share out among so few bodies.

Norway has a population of approx. 5m - about 22% of Australia, and 8% of the UK.

 

Easy to "invest in all their people" when they have (had) massive income from from oil to share out among so few bodies.

True, but is what we in Australia or the U.S. a better model with, in the promoted U.S. model, less than 1% owning ~60% of the nation's wealth and an ever growing number poorly educated and locked into poverty and doomed to the cheapest labour rates?.

Just look at their political choices ahead of them!

Eisenhower warned Kennedy about the power of the " industrial military complex" which keeps getting a disproportionate amount of funding compared to education and health.....what a disaster THAT is.

Bit OT though )))

And CO2 for aircraft

http://m.atwonline.com/regulation/icao-moves-forward-emissions-regulations?NL=ATW-04&Issue=ATW-04_20160209_ATW-04_783&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1_b&utm_rid=CPEN1000000426856&utm_campaign=4920&utm_medium=email&elq2=b18fcde45499447a9532f865c4d514e6

More on that......will please one of us at least

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102296_first-ever-emissions-rules-for-airplanes-proposed-by-u-n

My return flights with Jet 2 from Edinburgh to Norway cost me less than it costs for the train fare once there to get to Oslo. Actually the flight is cheaper than even cheap parking for Edinburgh airport.

Edited 10 February, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

My return flights with Jet 2 from Edinburgh to Norway cost me less than it costs for the train fair once there to get to Oslo. Actually the flight is cheaper than even cheap parking for Edinburgh airport.

......not to mention the price of a pint

^^^ for diesel; that's not light at the end of the tunnel.......

Effectively California will outlaw the diesel without a fundamental breakthrough

 So what about all the trucks, buses, construction plant etc etc in California?????

^^^^ this discussion only relates to light urban diesel.

VW, whilst also delaying their account reporting, also, reportedly, looking to sell Ducati, Man, Scania to cover the tens of billions of dollar/Euro hit over dieselgate.

 

 

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1160211103862/vw-might-sell-ducati-scania-man-to-cover-dieselgate-costs

 

According to Citi analysts, the companies could be worth as much as $13.5 billion.  This would go a long way in helping Volkswagen cover the costs associated with the Dieselgate scandal.  The final cost is still being determined but some estimates have put the total at approximately $55 billion.  Volkswagen has already set aside more than $7 billion to cover the costs of the scandal and has access to an additional $20 billion from European banks.

Edited 12 February, 201610 yr by lol-lol

 So what about all the trucks, buses, construction plant etc etc in California?????

 

 

All these sorts of vehicles are being force-ably converted to run on cleared fuel and/or use less by being hybrid though not heard much about the construction side and I do some work with that side.  My giant logistic company I work for are transforming our fleet to hybrids where we work in the polluted cities with high NOX which the main culprit is diesel engined vehicles which are not fitted with SCR/Ad blu system.  Establishment of LEZ and ULEZs will restrict the high output NOX vehicles in the big cities and improve air quality to drastically cut the premature deaths largely caused by such vehicles.  

You say about diesels. And ok nox is higher than stated. But if thats the case what abt buses, planes which are in nearly every city? Will the be banned? I think not

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You say about diesels. And ok nox is higher than stated. But if thats the case what abt buses, planes which are in nearly every city? Will the be banned? I think not

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The NOX is not "just" higher ie like VW have been caught out on the CO2 ie by 5% or so, but the NOX is often several times the 80mg/km limit and many diesels barely reach the 80 limit even in lab condition so have not much margin in those perfect conditions.

 

All transportation companies are now focusing and planning on producing less pollution.  Councils in big cities forcing adoption of lower polluting vehicles. Newly ordered buses ordered as gas, duel fuel or hybrid.  Planes are also lower their pollutants by better designed engines.  We in the logistics industry actually want the third runway becuase as well as the 30,000 jobs that this and the last UK government have been blocking and dis-advantaging UK companies on their ability to export but we can actually reduce pollution per kilo of cargo exported/imported by getting the A380s, 787 etc on the third runway.  Vast majority of air pollution at Heathrow is ground vehicles delivering passengers.

 

Not sure non-compliant vehicles will be banned but pay a £20 entry fee to ULEZs which will then be put to NOX scrubbers.

Edited 12 February, 201610 yr by lol-lol

70% of NOx pollution at Heathrow is from planes, come on, I showed you the chart produced by the airport themselves. If you must keep on about adding runways, at least give the full picture about how that might affect NOx locally.

Per person/mile travelled beats surface travel over land though I suspect but Heathrow is always going to be a hotspot.

Yeah, so adding capacity to an already bad location upwind of central London seems like a dumb-ass idea to me.

If they are forced into holding stacks and extended ground running awaiting departure, it would actually be more efficient to get them processed with, perhaps lower total emissions aided by ever more efficient engine and wing design plus a new bio fuel standard being developed as well.

If they are forced into holding stacks and extended ground running awaiting departure, it would actually be more efficient to get them processed with, perhaps lower total emissions aided by ever more efficient engine and wing design plus a new bio fuel standard being developed as well.

Which brings us neatly back round to VW diesels, super-efficient engines with consequent high NOx issues.  Thermodynamics can be a bugger sometimes.