M I see what your saying but how I feel is stuff their updates, ad blue wud cost me more money in long run and stuff all the environmentalists. I bought my car cos I love it not to have it messed abt with and put me out of pocket even further.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

M I see what your saying but how I feel is stuff their updates, ad blue wud cost me more money in long run and stuff all the environmentalists. I bought my car cos I love it not to have it messed abt with and put me out of pocket even further.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

You have no conscious about what your driving/vehicle is doing to the health of tens of thousands of other UK people? 

Its irrelevant I cant afford anither car and bought it in good faith. Another point id like to make ppl with money can change if their not happy with things I havent and cant and wen the massive polluters like America, China and others do nothing to cut their pollutants why shud I?

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

That is why there shud be a buy back scheme im my opinion. Id happily have a petrol but like I said I cant afford to change and dont want the car I bought being ruined

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Its irrelevant I cant afford anither car and bought it in good faith. Another point id like to make ppl with money can change if their not happy with things I havent and cant and wen the massive polluters like America, China and others do nothing to cut their pollutants why shud I?

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

No one is doing more, except perhaps the Norwegians, than the China, Japan and the US to improve air quality, India is probably the biggest polluter that is struggling to change.

 

Yes VW should pay to make the change but the 10,000 premature deaths in London, 500 in Birmingham per year etc mean that we do have do something to reduce the death toll ASAP and a few hundred pounds here and there should not be a barrier to tackling the death toll.

Few hundred pounds for who? Vw I think not. Im not on a good wage and have to run a house on my own so few hundred pounds means a lot to me

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

You have no conscious about what your driving/vehicle is doing to the health of tens of thousands of other UK people? 

 

He shouldn't feel any worse than any other diesel driver as independent tests across Europe have proven that the VAG cheat engines are pretty much average when it comes to on road NOx emissions and some legal engines are far worse.

 

While diesel's, including Euro 6 diesels, should be restricted entering high pollution areas drivers of VAG's Euro5 cheat engines should not be feeling any worse than any other diesel driver.

 

Lee

Edited 30 June, 20169 yr by logiclee

Renault have at least partial addressed the problem by re calibrating their emission systems in a call back and adjust exercise which gets the emission system to kick in at lower temperatures not just at the lab temperature to do well in the test.

Edited 30 June, 20169 yr by lol-lol

Because scrapping close to half a million perfectly serviceable cars has the environments best interests at heart hasn't it?

Renault have at least partial addressed the problem by re calibrating their emission systems in a call back and adjust exercise which gets the emission system to kick in at lower temperatures not just at the lab temperature to do well in the test.

 

 

But I haven't seen anywhere where they have said by how much. On some of their models the emission systems were switched off below 17 degrees which is switched of most of the time in Northern Europe with some models emitting 25 times more NOx on the road than in the test.

 

Renualt say the software fix improves this but by how much?

 

They are not the only one's, some GM's and Merc's turn off the NOx systems below 19 degrees on some units and 10 degrees on others. Ford claim their systems work down to -10 degrees. 

So a big difference in manufacturers.

 

Lee

Edited 30 June, 20169 yr by logiclee

Because scrapping close to half a million perfectly serviceable cars has the environments best interests at heart hasn't it?

 

If VW would get it finger out of its *ss and do as Renault have done and remap the cars that the emissions work over a wider range than the problem could be much reduced.

 

The half million cars in the States the US has decided they basically do not want them on their streets.  They were mis-sold as clean diesels and the US big cities also suffer from high NOX and PMs which the US legal systems has acted both for the consumers and public health in getting these light diesel off the road.

 

Cars may be "perfectly serviceable" but they are a public health hazard and something needs to be done about them entering or operating in urban areas during peak times.  Sadly there are so many other political issues at the moment and the diesel issue, those without SCR systems, will take a back seat and perhaps the reduction in the economic activity of the UK and Europe will actually have a bigger effect than non effective and non existant legal move here. 

Has VW or anyone said they will crush those from the US of A that are bought back?

They can be parted out and sold like the Scrappage Scheme Vehicles that VW say provide 'genuine original Parts'. (used)

http://volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/environment/product-lifecycle/recycling

They already offer a bag of beans for cars in the UK to 'dispose of your car in a Green manner.'

Edited 30 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

It seems clear you can't make diesel cars eco friendly just by tweaking around the rules and settings. Car engines go through 'exhaustive' (pun) reliability tests and you can't just throw in a few tuning options to fix them without considering other consequences. The only way to get diesel cars green is to stop selling diesel fuel oil, which won't make 50% of UK diesel car owners very happy.

 

For now we have to live with the best that can be done. All pre EU5 diesels older than about 2007 are emitting more than newer EU 5 and EU 6. Are we taking those cars off the road as well? I think you have to draw the line as VW have done on the post 2012 series. They are still cleaner than others, but we are now arguing about all diesel cars. There has to be a transition to clean fuel cars which won't happen overnight.  If the VAG group dies over this, it will be one less manufacturer producing cleaner cars in the future. True they should have started sooner instead of continuing underhand and unethical practices, but they had the chance to turn around their image. I haven't seen much evidence of it yet and when this thread first started I remember saying modifying EU 5 cars or fitting Adblue where possible to be better (not just by a small margin!) could have given them some credibility.  I suspect their lawyers and bean counters have been in charge, which may be why we have seen the delays and worsening PR as wranglings continue.

 

One thing companies do to limit brand damage across a group of diverse products is kill off the problem item, then tell your future customers your new cars replacing them are not like those bad cars we made before.  Trust, confidence, performance and price are top of the list for car buyers and I don't think a destruction strategy will work for VW. In addition, the Brexit vote will raise questions about what cars we buy in future, the fuel they use and where they come from.

But I haven't seen anywhere where they have said by how much. On some of their models the emission systems were switched off below 17 degrees which is switched of most of the time in Northern Europe with some models emitting 25 times more NOx on the road than in the test.

 

Renualt say the software fix improves this but by how much?

 

They are not the only one's, some GM's and Merc's turn off the NOx systems below 19 degrees on some units and 10 degrees on others. Ford claim their systems work down to -10 degrees. 

So a big difference in manufacturers.

 

Lee

 

Absolutely so the French government insist that Renault tune their systems to cover the temperatures in Northern France which are similar to southern Britain of course, so the emission system work during ambient temperatures and not just the lab temperature range of 20 to 30 C.

 

Diesels are much more difficult to operate within a emission compliant range of temperature without SCR systems,

 

So all these non-SCR light diesels need tweaking to the best possible settings.  They may need some additional service ie more often replacement of EGR components but with the number of premature deaths something needs to be done,  In the department of Transport where I work for a while before customs,  we had a rather cold hearted formula ie a death cost society around £150K or whatever and of road junction were calculated to likely cause another accident against the cost of improvement then it was done.  Similar approach to the deaths caused by poor air quality caused I reckon.    

Has VW or anyone said they will crush those from the US of A that are bought back?

They can be parted out and sold like the Scrappage Scheme Vehicles that VW say provide 'genuine original Parts'. (used)

 

They already offer a bag of beans for cars in the UK to 'dispose of your car in a Green manner.'

When they did that last time with their scrappage scheme, everybody got rid of their decent petrol cars and bought those small engine 'eco' economy diesels that are hard to fix. Do we think governments will get it right next time?

Absolutely so the French government insist that Renault tune their systems to cover the temperatures in Northern France which are similar to southern Britain of course, so the emission system work during ambient temperatures and not just the lab temperature range of 20 to 30 C.

 

 

If the French Government are insisting that all engines do that why no comment from PSA who also failed the Swiss Goverment tests?

I was talking of the Disposal Scrappage not the one the UK Government did to boost the UK Motor Trade and which many scrapped decent enough cars and bought Euro 5 Diesel Polluters City Cars for doing a few thousand miles a year.

If VW would get it finger out of its *ss and do as Renault have done and remap the cars that the emissions work over a wider range than the problem could be much reduced.

 

If it were that simple it would have been done by now.

 

The cars aren't any less polluting after the recall, the cheat only reduced emissions when the car thought it was being tested, at all other times (i.e. normal use) the emissions remained unchanged.

 

Forcing VAG to take the cars off the road isn't helping the environment, quite the opposite in fact.

If VW would get it finger out of its *ss and do as Renault have done and remap the cars that the emissions work over a wider range than the problem could be much reduced.

 

 

 

But then again.

 

Renault are remapping their Euro 6 engines as they had a very high NOx system temperature cut off.  VW's Euro 6 engines do not have this issue.

 

VW are looking for a solution to NOx emissions on Euro 5 diesels. Although Renault and GM Euro 5 diesels are some of the dirtiest diesels in on the road  independent testing they are not looking at any sort of fix on these older units.

 

Lee

If it were that simple it would have been done by now.

 

The cars aren't any less polluting after the recall, the cheat only reduced emissions when the car thought it was being tested, at all other times (i.e. normal use) the emissions remained unchanged.

 

Forcing VAG to take the cars off the road isn't helping the environment, quite the opposite in fact.

Yeah, but the fix isn't to stop it behaving well in testing, it's to make it behave as well as that all the time, a much harder thing to achieve without other effects. So they should be much less polluting after the fix, at least in NOx terms.

Edited 30 June, 20169 yr by Wino

Which is where there is a disconnect with reality and what Skoda UK are telling us.

 

They are assuring their customers that there will be no performance or fuel economy changes after the recall.

 

I simply can't understand how this is possible through a software only change.

 

I can see how a software change could remove the cheat set-up under testing, but if emissions are significantly reduced during normal driving without losses elsewhere then there wouldn't have been any need for the cheat in the first place...

Agreed.

$15B Euro the final settlement against VW in the US for their half million vehicles.

 

$10B for consumers and about $5B for electric car infrastructure and paying for other cleaner vehicles to reduce the emissions to balance the pollution by the VWs.

 

If the same formula was applied to Europe 11 million affected cars it would be a third of a trillion dollar or about 5 times what VW is currently worth.  

Edited 1 July, 20169 yr by lol-lol

Renault have improved emission at more representative ambient temperatures.

What effect has this had on driveability , performance and fuel consumption?

U.S.

Buybacks

Compensation

Modification/Fix

http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=224739ee8978227d615edb272&id=37ba93bd67&e=99c9f93784