What about the 10% CO_​2  ​increase that goes with 10% consumption increase, no concerns about climate change?

What about the 10% CO_​2  ​increase that goes with 10% consumption increase, no concerns about climate change?

 

10% worse CO2 is not desirable but NOX (and PMs) kills thousands of people a month through local pollution in the UK and hundreds of thousand throughout the world.

 

A little 1.6 Diesel engine, going from 99 or 109 grams/kilometer to a figure of 109, or 120 grams is not so serious and in the UK we can raise a bit more road tax from those cars from VW who I would expect to pay for this for the next few years.

 

CO2 needs addressing and that is being done so over the next year or so via UK legislation.  My road tax would go from £300 to £500 a year soon so it is going to be bye bye to the Jaaag which is 249 gm/CO2  which is odd as it can do 40 mpg and I tend to use on longer journeys and the little petrols for short journeys.

 

Electric cars charged by nuclear and renewable is the answer to less CO2, tax incentive and loading plus a scrappage scheme to move in that direction ASAP to reduce NOX, PMs and NOX.   

Do you have a source for those NOx related death figures?

Do you have a source for those NOx related death figures?

 

https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/75000-deaths-largely-diesel-fumes-legacy-europe%E2%80%99s-lax-vehicles-limits-and-testing

 

 

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs313/en/

Ambient (outdoor) air quality and health

Fact sheet N°313

Updated March 2014

Key facts

• Air pollution is a major environmental risk to health. By reducing air pollution levels, countries can reduce the burden of disease from stroke, heart disease, lung cancer, and both chronic and acute respiratory diseases, including asthma.
• The lower the levels of air pollution, the better the cardiovascular and respiratory health of the population will be, both long- and short-term.
• The "WHO Air quality guidelines" provide an assessment of health effects of air pollution and thresholds for health-harmful pollution levels.
• Ambient (outdoor air pollution) in both cities and rural areas was estimated to cause 3.7 million premature deaths worldwide in 2012.
• Some 88% of those premature deaths occurred in low- and middle-income countries, and the greatest number in the WHO Western Pacific and South-East Asia regions.
• Policies and investments supporting cleaner transport, energy-efficient housing, power generation, industry and better municipal waste management would reduce key sources of urban outdoor air pollution.
• Reducing outdoor emissions from household coal and biomass energy systems, agricultural waste incineration, forest fires and certain agro-forestry activities (e.g. charcoal production) would reduce key rural and peri-urban air pollution sources in developing regions.
• Reducing outdoor air pollution also reduces emissions of CO2 and short-lived climate pollutants such as black carbon particles and methane, thus contributing to the near- and long-term mitigation of climate change.
• In addition to outdoor air pollution, indoor smoke is a serious health risk for some 3 billion people who cook and heat their homes with biomass fuels and coal.

Background

Outdoor air pollution is a major environmental health problem affecting everyone in developed and developing countries alike.

WHO estimates that some 80% of outdoor air pollution-related premature deaths were due to ischaemic heart disease and strokes, while 14% of deaths were due to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or acute lower respiratory infections; and 6% of deaths were due to lung cancer.

Some deaths may be attributed to more than one risk factor at the same time. For example, both smoking and ambient air pollution affect lung cancer. Some lung cancer deaths could have been averted by improving ambient air quality, or by reducing tobacco smoking.

A 2013 assessment by WHO’s International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) concluded that outdoor air pollution is carcinogenic to humans, with the particulate matter component of air pollution most closely associated with increased cancer incidence, especially cancer of the lung. An association also has been observed between outdoor air pollution and increase in cancer of the urinary tract/bladder.

Ambient (outdoor air pollution) in both cities and rural areas was estimated to cause 3.7 million premature deaths worldwide per year in 2012; this mortality is due to exposure to small particulate matter of 10 microns or less in diameter (PM10), which cause cardiovascular and respiratory disease, and cancers.

People living in low- and middle-income countries disproportionately experience the burden of outdoor air pollution with 88% (of the 3.7 million premature deaths) occurring in low- and middle-income countries, and the greatest burden in the WHO Western Pacific and South-East Asia regions. The latest burden estimates reflect the very significant role air pollution plays in cardiovascular illness and premature deaths – much more so than was previously understood by scientists.

Most sources of outdoor air pollution are well beyond the control of individuals and demand action by cities, as well as national and international policymakers in sector like transport, energy waste management, buildings and agriculture.

There are many examples of successful policies in transport, urban planning, power generation and industry that reduce air pollution:

• for industry: clean technologies that reduce industrial smokestack emissions; improved management of urban and agricultural waste, including capture of methane gas emitted from waste sites as an alternative to incineration (for use as biogas);
• for transport: shifting to clean modes of power generation; prioritizing rapid urban transit, walking and cycling networks in cities as well as rail interurban freight and passenger travel; shifting to cleaner heavy duty diesel vehicles and low-emissions vehicles and fuels, including fuels with reduced sulfur content;
• for urban planning: improving the energy efficiency of buildings and making cities more compact, and thus energy efficient;
• for power generation: increased use of low-emissions fuels and renewable combustion-free power sources (like solar, wind or hydropower); co-generation of heat and power; and distributed energy generation (e.g. mini-grids and rooftop solar power generation);
• for municipal and agricultural waste management: strategies for waste reduction, waste separation, recycling and reuse or waste reprocessing; as well as improved methods of biological waste management such as anaerobic waste digestion to produce biogas, are feasible, low cost alternatives to the open incineration of solid waste. Where incineration is unavoidable, then combustion technologies with strict emission controls are critical.

In addition to outdoor air pollution, indoor smoke is a serious health risk for some 3 billion people who cook and heat their homes with biomass fuels and coal. Some 4.3 million premature deaths were attributable to household air pollution in 2012. Almost all of that burden was in low-middle-income countries as well.

The 2005 "WHO Air quality guidelines" offer global guidance on thresholds and limits for key air pollutants that pose health risks. The Guidelines indicate that by reducing particulate matter (PM10) pollution from 70 to 20 micrograms per cubic metre (μg/m), we can cut air pollution-related deaths by around 15%.

The Guidelines apply worldwide and are based on expert evaluation of current scientific evidence for:

• particulate matter (PM)
• ozone (O3)
• nitrogen dioxide (NO2) and
• sulfur dioxide (SO2), in all WHO regions.

 

Edited 12 June, 201610 yr by lol-lol

My road tax would go from £300 to £500 a year soon so it is going to be bye bye to the Jaaag which is 249 gm/CO2  

Why is it going up to £500?

The U.S. scheme start date is 21 June , having been approved by the EPA and prosecutors.......barring last minute complications.

The U.S. prosecutors are driving this it seems as far as I can see, and it appears Europe comes second.

Why is it going up to £500?

 

The new VED rates hit cars with highish CO2 even if they have lowish NOX ie my Jaaag has NOX of 34 mgm/km.

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/88369/car-tax-bands-what-you-need-to-know

 

Oddly all cars that cost less than £40K only pay £140 from 2017 annual tax onwards, madness. 

Edited 13 June, 201610 yr by lol-lol

"Cars registered before April 1st 2017 will continue to be taxed under the old system."

 

And from a link within your linked article:

 

"

What do 2017 road tax changes mean for cars already registered?

Current road tax bands won’t change for cars that are already registered, so the existing VED bands will remain in place - meaning cars registered before April 2017 will continue to pay the current VED rates even after the new VED bands come into force. Fortunately for owners, the existing rates for CO2 bands are much more favourable to lower-polluting vehicles. "

Edited 13 June, 201610 yr by Wino

"Cars registered before April 1st 2017 will continue to be taxed under the old system."

 

Aye.  Stings to pay £500 road tax for a car I only do less than 10k miiles a year in, to balance the lease mileage on my main car which I do 20k miles on but hey ho.

 

Do want to go green but the legislation seems to be focusing on the wrong things much of the time.  Inflation, or more, rises on fuel duty seems a fairer way perhaps but then we are currently getting hammered with rising oil prices ie now over £5 a gallon from it's £4.50 low a few months ago.

 

Going to try and wangle an electric car from work maybe, as we are involved in the rolling out the London Blue Cars as part of our logistics business, but I fear they may need a full 45 Kw/hr 3 phase charger, which I cannot install at home of course, so it might be a Zoe with the Chameleon charger, but I might wait for the 30 Kw-hr unit like the new Leaf has, and the Blue car has, instead of of the rather limiting 24 Kw/hr version currently the Zoe has, great for city and journeys up to a couple of hundred kms.  

Aye.  Stings to pay £500 road tax for a car I only do less than 10k miiles a year in, to balance the lease mileage on my main car which I do 20k miles on but hey ho.

 

Do want to go green but the legislation seems to be focusing on the wrong things much of the time.  Inflation, or more, rises on fuel duty seems a fairer way perhaps but then we are currently getting hammered with rising oil prices ie now over £5 a gallon from it's £4.50 low a few months ago.

 

Going to try and wangle an electric car from work maybe, as we are involved in the rolling out the London Blue Cars as part of our logistics business, but I fear they may need a full 45 Kw/hr 3 phase charger, which I cannot install at home of course, so it might be a Zoe with the Chameleon charger, but I might wait for the 30 Kw-hr unit like the new Leaf has, and the Blue car has, instead of of the rather limiting 24 Kw/hr version currently the Zoe has, great for city and journeys up to a couple of hundred kms.  

 

All great where cities have the charging points. But most future buyers of an electric car will want to charge them at home in their driveway. They will be stuck with lower trickle charge rates because I bet no planning has been done by electricity companies to consider the effects of peak current demand on their existing domestic supply infrastructure.  Smart meters being installed now will have the ability to measure peak demands and already in some countries you are charged at higher tarifs if you exceed the contracted maximum demand. Their argument is somebody has to pay for bigger cables in the ground, which is the high peak power consumers.

 

All electric vehicles come with the same question: How can I get the maximum charge into my vehicle in the shortest time when it needs recharging. By analogy, that is the time you spend at the petrol station pouring in 25 litres of fuel for about 500 mile plus driving range. Conversely, how long will I have to wait to charge it up if I am stuck somewhere and will my breakdown insurance cover an over night hotel stay?

All great where cities have the charging points. But most future buyers of an electric car will want to charge them at home in their driveway. They will be stuck with lower trickle charge rates because I bet no planning has been done by electricity companies to consider the effects of peak current demand on their existing domestic supply infrastructure.  Smart meters being installed now will have the ability to measure peak demands and already in some countries you are charged at higher tarifs if you exceed the contracted maximum demand. Their argument is somebody has to pay for bigger cables in the ground, which is the high peak power consumers.   All electric vehicles come with the same question: How can I get the maximum charge into my vehicle in the shortest time when it needs recharging. By analogy, that is the time you spend at the petrol station pouring in 25 litres of fuel for about 500 mile plus driving range. Conversely, how long will I have to wait to charge it up if I am stuck somewhere and will my breakdown insurance cover an over night hotel stay?

 

Charging should occur between 11 pm and 6 am ie on the low tariff electricity and when demand is lowest using nuclear base load power.

 

Charging at 8 kw/hr ie same as your shower, will charge the car in around 4-5 hours plenty of time.

 

Charging currently and in the future will have more super/ultra capacitor and less "battery" so charging in less than a minute.

 

Average time in a petrol station about 4 minutes I guess, I would like it that I just drove on the charging coil, popped in for a comfort break, some drink/food and get going in 5 minutes, not that far away for electric cars running LMP batteries and super-capacitors.

Charging should occur between 11 pm and 6 am ie on the low tariff electricity and when demand is lowest using nuclear base load power.

 

Charging at 8 kw/hr ie same as your shower, will charge the car in around 4-5 hours plenty of time.

 

 

 

Don't want to go over ground that has already been covered in the thread but...

 

a. Night time low demand no longer exists, night time usually sees higher demand in the UK due to the lack of micro solar. capacity. We currently do not have nuclear base load. We have a few ageing nuclear stations and one that still isn't 100% guaranteed. We rely on Gas to cover base load and when that's not enough we bring on Coal. 

 

b. You don't have a shower for 4-5 hours, if everyone on the street has an electric shower for 4-5 hours a night the current infrastructure would collapse.

 

Lee

http://nationalgridconnecting.com/grounds-for-constraint

But Wind Farms are being paid not to produce electricity when they can be are they not?

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29168381

Sad that the UK can not get its act together and decide on a strategy and run with it and spend on

the infrastructures required.

Edited 13 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

Don't want to go over ground that has already been covered in the thread but...  a. Night time low demand no longer exists, night time usually sees higher demand in the UK due to the lack of micro solar. capacity. We currently do not have nuclear base load. We have a few ageing nuclear stations and one that still isn't 100% guaranteed. We rely on Gas to cover base load and when that's not enough we bring on Coal. 

b. You don't have a shower for 4-5 hours, if everyone on the street has an electric shower for 4-5 hours a night the current infrastructure would collapse.

 

Lee

 

Cheaper night time electricity does exist ie on Economy 7 tariffs (which actually can be as long as 8.5 hours) you can pay as little as 6.5 pence per Kwhr so you can charge you Leaf or Zoe for £3 over night.

 

Have the power switch on at 11 pm or whatever and all charged up for the morning.  No electric cars along my road yet but I would be proud to be this first and take advantage of cheap night time electric.

 

Economy 7 electricity is usually two-thirds of the normal 24 rate or about half of the non economy 7 rate so as long as you use more than a third of your electrical power in 7/8 hours of cheaper electricity night time you will be quids in.

 

So why is electricity cheaper (as low as 6.5 p/KWhr) then bright sparky?   

What we seem to be saying is if you want to recharge your car at home it will take all night and you can't use it. If you want to charge it up quickly like putting petrol in, you have to find a commercial charging point. At the moment if I want to use my car at night it has petrol in the tank or I can 'recharge' it with petrol in 5 minutes 24/7 from 24 hour petrol stations.

 

I agree that if your electric car journeys are predictable and you can wait all night for it to re-charge from home, you can manage that. But car use and demand is often unpredicatable. I  want a green alternative I can depend on and that doesn't mean trains, buses and public transport.  Oh well, looks like if I go 'green' the family will have to use the electric bikes with child seats for the 10 mile commute and child care drop offs with spare charged battery packs on float standby ready to drop in.

 

Perhaps my new EV will come with a standardised battery or fuel cell and I just swap it in under 5 minutes at the 24/7 petrol station like my battery drill? I don't mind if it's liquid (petrol)  or a solid ECO energy exchange pack, as long as it's green. I bet I will pay a lot though. Fuel duty will just move to the commercial charging stations.

Or you could have this Merc 'hybrid'

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104445_mercedes-fuel-cell-glc-plugs-in-like-an-electric-car-what-does-that-imply

.....have your cake.......

What we seem to be saying is if you want to recharge your car at home it will take all night and you can't use it. If you want to charge it up quickly like putting petrol in, you have to find a commercial charging point. At the moment if I want to use my car at night it has petrol in the tank or I can 'recharge' it with petrol in 5 minutes 24/7 from 24 hour petrol stations.

 

I agree that if your electric car journeys are predictable and you can wait all night for it to re-charge from home, you can manage that. But car use and demand is often unpredicatable. I  want a green alternative I can depend on and that doesn't mean trains, buses and public transport.  Oh well, looks like if I go 'green' the family will have to use the electric bikes with child seats for the 10 mile commute and child care drop offs with spare charged battery packs on float standby ready to drop in.

 

Perhaps my new EV will come with a standardised battery or fuel cell and I just swap it in under 5 minutes at the 24/7 petrol station like my battery drill? I don't mind if it's liquid (petrol)  or a solid ECO energy exchange pack, as long as it's green. I bet I will pay a lot though. Fuel duty will just move to the commercial charging stations.

Until they deny you the 'right to drive' that is but will be a chauffeur charge instead.

What we seem to be saying is if you want to recharge your car at home it will take all night and you can't use it. If you want to charge it up quickly like putting petrol in, you have to find a commercial charging point. At the moment if I want to use my car at night it has petrol in the tank or I can 'recharge' it with petrol in 5 minutes 24/7 from 24 hour petrol stations.  I agree that if your electric car journeys are predictable and you can wait all night for it to re-charge from home, you can manage that. But car use and demand is often unpredicatable. I  want a green alternative I can depend on and that doesn't mean trains, buses and public transport.  Oh well, looks like if I go 'green' the family will have to use the electric bikes with child seats for the 10 mile commute and child care drop offs with spare charged battery packs on float standby ready to drop in.  Perhaps my new EV will come with a standardised battery or fuel cell and I just swap it in under 5 minutes at the 24/7 petrol station like my battery drill? I don't mind if it's liquid (petrol)  or a solid ECO energy exchange pack, as long as it's green. I bet I will pay a lot though. Fuel duty will just move to the commercial charging stations.

 

That is not even true today and will even more so not be the case within a year or so.   You can charge a Nissan Leaf or a Renault Zoe in about 3 hours of a home charger, and do it on the cheap overnight electricity at around 6 p a KwHr ir for about £2 and that is going to take you a hundred miles as opposed to your tank of diesel or petrol for £50 so certainly the difference would pay for your Starbucks coffee if you stopped for a half hour fast charge on the way and still have a couple of tenners left in your wallet.

 

Upgraded electric vehicles are coming out all the time such as the new 30 Kw-Hr powered Leaf now coming out of Sunderland so another 30 miles odd range with these cars.  There are even better cars out there such as the BWM i3 for a bit more money..

http://www.electricvehiclesresearch.com/articles/9420/the-new-bmw-i3-94ah 

 

Straight forward charging is the way forward using cable or induction loop with ever quicker charging station ie like the Tesla's 120 Kw charging stations her already for Teslas and higher throughput ones than the 47Kw ones for other electric vehicles.  

BBC today,

Notice it's the workers of the company world wide that will lose there jobs because of cr*p descisions at the top!

Volkswagen plans to launch 30 all-electric models to reposition itself as a leader in "green" transport.

Matthias Mueller, chief executive of Europe's biggest carmaker, said huge investments would be needed as the firm moves beyond the "dieselgate" scandal.

He hopes that by 2025, all-electric cars would account for about 20-25% of the German carmaker's annual sales.

Latest figures show that sales growth of Volkswagen-branded cars continues to fall behind European rivals.

Outlining what he described as the "key building blocks in the new group strategy", Mr Mueller said VW aimed to "transform its core automotive business or, to put it another way, make a fundamental realignment in readiness for the new age of mobility".

VW will focus on "the most attractive and fastest-growing market segments", he said. "Special emphasis will be place on e-mobility. The group is planning a broad-based initiative in this area: it intends to launch more than 30 purely battery-powered electric vehicles over the next ten years," he said.

VW was plunged into crisis when it was revealed in the US last September that diesel engines had been fitted with software that could distort emissions tests. The company later revealed that some 11 million cars worldwide were affected.

'Integrity'

Mr Mueller said VW's transformation would involve investments in the double-digit billions of euros, funded by savings and cost-cuts, with all brands and businesses having to contribute.

He told reporters at VW headquarters, in Wolfsburg: "This will require us - following the serious setback as a result of the diesel issue - to learn from mistakes made, rectify shortcomings and establish a corporate culture that is open, value-driven and rooted in integrity."

The company's components business, spread across 26 plants, will be streamlined, and there will be a focus on cutting sales and administration costs.

On Thursday, car sales data from the European Automobile Manufacturers Association suggested that the VW group continues to suffer from the impact of the diesel scandal.

Sales of Volkswagen-branded cars rose 4.1% in May, compared to the same month last year. But that was sluggish when compared to 28.7% growth for Renault and 18.7% growth at PSA Group, owner of Peugeot and Citroen.

Market share for the group, which includes Audi, Skoda, and Seat, for the five months to May, was 23.9%, the lowest for the period since 2011.

Planning is one thing, doing is another when others are already ahead.

All I care about is whats gna happen with my car ie tax, update

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Germany may ban diesel AND petrol; follow Norway - Netherlands

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1104486_germany-could-follow-norway-and-the-netherlands-banning-gas-diesel-cars#src=10065

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by Ryeman

Governments may impose big fines on VW and increase road taxes. Then they could do deals with VW giving back a large chunk of the cash to fund their (late) development of electric vehicles.

Germany may ban diesel AND petrol; follow Norway - Netherlands

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1104486_germany-could-follow-norway-and-the-netherlands-banning-gas-diesel-cars#src=10065

Yes, I'm sure many governments will react as they have done in the past.  Latest information and pass through some new legislation, you've only got to look how they were pushing diesels a while ago rather than petrol.

Where does it leave us the average punter?  Cars are often the second largest purchase we make next to our homes but there are not the options to purchase to meet all the 'new' potential rules and regulations.  So what will happen I guess is that it will get fudged again and the rules will be allowed to be bent and worked around until a car manufacturer in a race to the bottom line pushes it too far.  We will then end up with a pile of batteries that can not be recycled or are full of toxic waste, who knows?  I'm getting more and more frustrated with the whole experience as many are I guess who's cars have fallen into the the VW trap.

Yes. As much as I love my octavia vrs I wish id stuck with vauxhall now and indeed petrol

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