Notice of intended prosecution

[drw8]

So are they prosecuting you, or just a word has sufficed?

 

Need to wait and see. Waiting for police to come round so I can sign/confirm it was me driving. Have also got in touch with motorlawyer and they have someone calling me later today.

 

If what the officer dealing with it says is true (that you cant see the M5 speeding up) and there is 2 witnesses, it looks like I'm screwed already, so I might have to try and go for the careless driving and see if I can get a driver improvement course instead of prosecution...

[999pooch]

Need to wait and see. Waiting for police to come round so I can sign/confirm it was me driving. Have also got in touch with motorlawyer and they have someone calling me later today.

If what the officer dealing with it says is true (that you cant see the M5 speeding up) and there is 2 witnesses, it looks like I'm screwed already, so I might have to try and go for the careless driving and see if I can get a driver improvement course instead of prosecution...

Eh! Either you were careless driving, or you weren't.

I wouldn't admit to something I hadn't done. In your heart of hearts do you think there was a bit of brinkmanship going on with who would give in first on the merging of lanes? Could you have backed off really?

When you say 2 witnesses, assuming Mr BMW is one, is the other another driver who saw it, or a passenger in the BMW?

[ColinD]

Are you not supposed to yield to traffic from the right?

 

As in, if you're along side ( how far along side) do you yield. you in this sense is the M5 driver, not you. sorry.

 

How far back does the video go, does it show the entry onto the roundabout? If you're ahead on that and the exit, only the merge lane...

 

Interested to find out more as I've been caught out on the right hand side a few times in the citigo. 90% from inside lane shutting the door that was open.

[Hardcore]

Just say it wasn't you driving the car at the time, end of!

 

 

Doing the social media rounds (and local TV) down here at the moment is a guy who provided cam footage of him being knocked off his cycle, car reg was there too. The police say they cannot prosecute the driver as they have no proof who was driving the car at the time. Apparently it was a hire car, still don't see how they can get away with it though.

 

 

Does sound like the driver of the cam fitted car (BMW) had a rush of excitement, another for his vid collection maybe......Entrapment???

The person who had hired the car got a £150 (maximum of £1000) and 6 points on his license for failing to nominate the driver for that incident.

 

Eh! Either you were careless driving, or you weren't.

I wouldn't admit to something I hadn't done. In your heart of hearts do you think there was a bit of brinkmanship going on with who would give in first on the merging of lanes? Could you have backed off really?

When you say 2 witnesses, assuming Mr BMW is one, is the other another driver who saw it, or a passenger in the BMW?

At this stage it's just a case of nominating the driver. 

Depending on what happens next they may be given the option of a speed awareness course.

If you choose not to deny the offence, you would need to dispute it in court where if you lose the fine and points are usually higher than a FPN

[Wardy]

 

As I almost got past him, he sped up to stop me completing the merge and forced me into on coming traffic. He eventually braked and let me in, then started to follow me closely and starting shouting and pointing to his car cam. Next set of traffic lights he pulled up along side me and said he caught it on camera and his wife was calling the police.

 

Can you post up a Google Maps link, to where this took place?

 

I know this is far easier with hindsight, but I'm struggling a bit with the time frame here. 

 

As you 'almost got past him' - how long was the overtake manoeuvre going on for, while there were two lanes? From what you're saying, I'm presuming this is a dual carriageway or single carriageway with two lanes, where it then reduces to one lane in each direction?

 

If you were finding you weren't making progress past, whether he decided to speed up or not, I would expect that you'd realise your lane was merging in and that you'd drop back in behind.

[Orchideous]

Did you cross over a solid white line to complete the overtake? Or was it broken white lines?

 

I would refer to the Highway code - if it's solid white lines the highway code states you must not cross the white line to overtake (unless a tractor going under 10mph I believe).

 

If it's broken white lines, the wording is something like ' you SHOULD only overtake on these roads if you can see the road ahead is clear' key-word being should. Should isn't definitive, nor a legal obligation, although it could still land you with a dangerous driving motoring conviction or otherwise, depending on the situation. If it is broken white lines, I would plead that your understanding of the highway code meant that you are able to overtake when there are broken white lines, and given the situation and in your opinion - reckless driving on the third parties behalf - that you were left with no other option than to complete this manoeuvre in the manner that you did.

 

If your case goes further, see if you can request a copy of the footage, and highlight the fact (if applicable) that you are not able to judge the entire situation that happened with the third parties footage alone.  

 

Again, even if it was a solid white line, I would still plead the fact that you felt this was the only option you felt you were left with, given the reckless driving on the third parties behalf based on your opinion. If you fight this, they really should only convict you if there is sufficient evidence.

 

Even if they are able to prove that the BMW didn't speed up, I would plead that you were under the impression that this is what they were doing. Perhaps there was a car that was very close to your rear, and you felt that heavy braking could have possibly caused an incident.

 

Personally I would not lie and say that it wasn't you driving - if they dig further which they may, the will certainly ask who it was that was driving, and whether they had your permission or not. Sticky situation for you to then be in. This could perhaps lead to perverting the course of justice which is criminal offence.

 

Best of luck with this - it's a major annoyance when people speed up when you go to overtake after driving they're ridiculously slowly, just due to their ego.

[Brimma]

If you fight this, they really should only convict you if there is sufficient evidence

If any prosecution, the court MUST only convict if satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the offence has been committed

[Ootohere]

I know the scene of the incident very well. 

I was there 1 hour ago.

Passengers i take to the Heliport regularly tell me to take the left lane which is straight ahead and up Tyrebagger as i am about to go round the roundabout and into the Airport.

I never do even though legally i could, just because it pith5 off so many drivers, and because of the near misses i see buy those that do.

Then there is the Police Scotland spotters watching Smokers in Works Vehicles, people on phones, and those without seat belts,

and those that come up the inside and do the 'smart move' are those spotted, and pulled in once off the Airport.

 

So even if they are getting late for check in, i use the same lane as i have since the road was built the way it is.

 

So from Andersons Drive and through Bucksburn, then past the Police Station, then once merged you chose your lane before the circle at the garage you chose your lane, both can go straight ahead and on up the A96.

You leave the 40mph limit and go through the NSL applies signs.

The delay is all about those lane jumping, 

which some do to let the traffic in from the left, 

and many do being smart ar535 trying to get quicker into the airport.

Few get on any quicker.

Edited 11 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[mannyo]

So, when you found the road was narrowing and there was traffic coming towards you, why didn't you simply lift off, brake and drop back in behind him?

This is what I would have done regardless. Reason, you were coming to a merge where the road markings may have indicated that. Be prepared for the unexpected at all times.

Edited 11 February, 2016 by mannyo

[Ootohere]

drw8,

where did it all start, was it as you joined the traffic coming from Dyce after the Police Station at the slip road across from the Travelodge / McDonalds and as you approached the Circle where the Shell Filling Station is?

 

PS.

Are there 'Driver Improvement Courses' now introduced in Scotland and something Police Scotland can suggest or offer.

The Procurator Fiscal will decide if their is a case to take to court, and what the alleged offence / offences were.

That is if a report goes to the PF.

Edited 11 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[Wardy]

This would be far easier to understand, with a provided Google Maps link....

[Ootohere]

It will indeed require a map / google view to understand.

I have just been there for the second time today taking the route the OP did, 

and as so many do as it is busy busy busy and you go with the flow, keep to the posted speed limits because of the fixed cameras, 

and do not cut across solid lines, of which there are few.

 

It can be wacky races, but road rage and chopping and changing lanes really is a waste of time here.

[drw8]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.1870355,-2.2005461,142m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

No solid white lines and the grass "divider" is no longer there. Yes, it's easy to say that in hindsight I should have braked, but the way he was driving looked like he was letting me past and as I was in the process of passing him he accelerated to match my speed. I was committed to a pass and refused to be bullied.

 

Been advised not to give my side of events until I have seen his statement and seen the video. It may be edited in such a way that makes it look worse or the sound may have been muted.

 

In regards to the map: we both approached the roundabout from the bottom right of the image in the right hand lane. We both took the third exit towards the airport. He moved over to the left while still on the roundabout and I stayed to the right and started to pass him.

Edited 11 February, 2016 by drw8

[Ootohere]

So you mean you were both going into Dyce Drive off the Roundabout.?

Someone has to give way, that is the nature of the beast really. 

[drw8]

Yes. If I had mis-timed my merge then fair enough would've held my hands up/backed off. But he moved over and then purposefully accelerated to stop me merging past and put me in a dangerous postion. Badge snobbery, typical BMW driver, did it just because he can. Who knows...

[Orchideous]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.1870355,-2.2005461,142m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

No solid white lines and the grass "divider" is no longer there. Yes, it's easy to say that in hindsight I should have braked, but the way he was driving looked like he was letting me past and as I was in the process of passing him he accelerated to match my speed. I was committed to a pass and refused to be bullied.

 

Been advised not to give my side of events until I have seen his statement and seen the video. It may be edited in such a way that makes it look worse or the sound may have been muted.

 

In regards to the map: we both approached the roundabout from the bottom right of the image in the right hand lane. We both took the third exit towards the airport. He moved over to the left while still on the roundabout and I stayed to the right and started to pass him.

 

From what I can gather that looks like it's not a merge in road as there aren't two lanes merging into one, however if his footage shows that there are no oncoming vehicles within the see-able distance, I would plead that your understanding of the highway code (pasted below) meant that you were able to overtake on this stretch of road - and given your impression of the third parties reckless driving from your point of view, this was the safest possible way to deal with this situation.

 

Rule 127

A broken white line. This marks the centre of the road. When this line lengthens and the gaps shorten, it means that there is a hazard ahead. Do not cross it unless you can see the road is clear and wish to overtake or turn off.

Overtaking is not an offence. As long as it is safe to do so.

I would personally avoid using the term "refusing to be bullied" - remember you are expected to drive in the safest possible manner. Again - Car close to your rear? Heavy braking could have caused a collision - Does the third party have a rear footage recorder in order to dismiss this was a possibility?

As you've mentioned, it's probably wise not to give a statement of accounts until you've reviewed all evidence against your case.

[Ootohere]

drw8,

They do it all the time, all day everyday there, the difference with me is that my car is 13 years old, as big as theirs, 

and i take my position and they give way.

I come from the Right Lane and make sure the way is clear and i am indicating early.

It is like at the Bridge of Dee.

Who Dares Wins.

 

All the best with it.

[Wardy]

Does anyone else get an area of Rochdale from that Google Maps link, or is it just me?!

[Ootohere]

It works for me, A96 Leaving Aberdeen going North.

 

EDIT.  PS

Just re-read the posts.

If the overtake was on Dyce Drive i can see where the person in the M5 was getting agitated might well have been 

with good cause.

It is single file heading in towards the airport without doubt until you get to the Junction and the traffic lights,.

(Just as you come off the circle and where the Police pull people in (waved in to have a word with them.)

for Smoking, no seat belts, on phone etc causes a danger as you have to go passed them, i have been annoyed by Police Scotland Officers stupidity when they are doing it many times.)

Edited 12 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[meta55b]

Have you typed the number plate into YouTube to see if it comes up. I Looked up Aberdeen dash cam and granite city, couldn't see anything.

[Wardy]

It works for me, A96 Leaving Aberdeen going North.

 

Weird. Working OK now!

[Wardy]

If you were coming off that roundabout onto Dyce Dr bound for the Airport, the only option for you, that I can see, is that you try to get across that the vehicle was moving very slowly and there was safe opportunity to get past.

 

There's no official two lane exit from the roundabout that I can see, from Streetview. There's no merge arrows because that's considered a single lane exit. I can see there might be room there, but you're taking shades of grey here - especially considering they've decided there are enough grounds for a NIP to be issued.

 

[Wardy]

From some rough calcs, the distance from the roundabout exit to the end of the central island is 26.5m. This is taken from the 'measure distance' tool within Google Maps.

 

So if the BMW was travelling at 20mph throughout that distance, it would cover 8.94m per second. It would therefore take it 2.9 seconds to travel that distance. So you would have that timeframe to get past, before you're faced with the potential for oncoming traffic - given it's a single carriageway road.

 

So I can see very quickly, that if the BMW decided to increase at all, even to 25-30mph, that would severely cut your ability to get past safely.

[Ootohere]

That is it, slight change and realignment & no grass there now..

[KenONeill]

After looking at the map and photo, I honestly don't think that's a 2-lane exit North-bound from the roundabout. Having said that, a piece of "advanced driving" might allow an off-siding driver to make an overtake safely but that depends on an absence of South-bound traffic.