I don't think you would sell many newspapers with the headline:

"DEMAND FOR ELECTRICITY SHIFTING TO MAKE USE OF OVERNIGHT SURPLUS!!!! THERE MIGHT BE SOME HICCUPS BUT I'M SURE IT WILL BE RESOLVED WITHOUT ANYONES CORRIE BEING CUT OFF"

 

Btw the sensationalist number started at 20 new nuclear power plants. I think they are down to 3 now?

 

Anyone old enough to remember if there was this concern when we switched to electric kettles?

Edited 7 September, 20178 yr by dg360

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Nah.

 

A 7kw home charger is less than many showers and goes straight in on the 30A main.   Can be set to charge on quiet overnight Economy 7/10 cheap charge ie 2 or 3p per Kw hour, free on Saturday or Sunday day time with some suppliers.  

 

There have been some issues in remote country areas, my Renault garage is out in the sticks so they have only got 3 kw chargers which is a bit pants but that will change with more static battery cells swapped out from EVs when the get their existing battery uprated ie 22 to 41 kW-H units.

 

Homes should be using less power in other areas as they moved to LED etc low powered lighting etc so more for EVs which will take the power when their is a surplus from Nuclear base load and renewables and even supply it back to the grid it it runs short and is profitable for the EV owner to do so.  Even Jaguar, like all car makers, know the future is electric and not hydrocarbon fuels though maybe hydrogen could play a part.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anything higher than elec shower rating is on a separate supply..so say 12kw...& that's a split off your incomer & separate meter & box...

 

Doesn't make much diff re LED lighting etc as those rings are the lowest MCBs in the fusebox usually....usually one 6A for upstairs & one 6A for downstairs...so basically no more than 2.8kw of "old" lighting.. & even if you cut it down to 300w total that's only freed up 2.5KW (theoretical)

 

Just imagine adding one to evey house that has cars down any street. That loading is outwith the currant rating of the existing feeder from the substation...so a new feeder wil have to be laid down each street to supply each house with a car charging point...But what happens to loads of places where you do not have off street parking & have to leave car on street....plenty small places up here where people have to park cars 50yrds from house because of narrow streets in fishing villages.....does the council sell them or rent out parking spaces with chargers?/ London etc just as bad, loads of streets full of cars on road...will now have big cables fitted down street & a forest of charging points...at what cost??

 

I know people who got refused big electric showers on new builds because the elec board didn't want to fit a bigger pole top transformer...

 

Elec cars are getting big capacity batteries which require longer to charge on a small kw charger..most people want a quicker charge...so more power required & bigger KW charger

 

Oh I used to work for the Hydro Board in my past & know a thing or two about their distribution & network layouts & capacities as I worked in the cartographic dept...

 

Edited 7 September, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

For LONDON the UK Government will just need to lift the streets of Gold and sort them out, and the rest of England as well,

they need money first though to rebuild the Oversea Territories being blown apart currently, all those UK Nationals living in British Tax havens that uses the US Dollar need assistance.

 

As to the devolved country that is Scotland and resource rich and that buys plenty of premium motors per capita we will see how far the Scottish Government gets with their aims. there is 25 years or more until actually going electric is going to be the Big Thing supposedly.

Before that The Donald might have the whole country glowing with Nuclear Outfall.

 

Sorting out the A77 & bypasses of Maybole & Girvan would be a good start to reducing pollution, help the economy etc, & then the A96 and A90 north of Aberdeen.

Edited 7 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

BMW 's catch up plans -

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170907/ANE/170909837/bmw-will-offer-12-full-electric-cars-to-catch-up-with-tesla?cciid=email-autonews-blast

@fabdavrav - Well, I just counted all the luminaires in my place, and got 14, 6 of which are in rooms 8'x8' or smaller so need a 60w incandescent or lower. One of the others is a 40w fluorescent tube. Which I make 1100w or less for "low energy" luminaires if I turned them all on at once.

20 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@fabdavrav - Well, I just counted all the luminaires in my place, and got 14, 6 of which are in rooms 8'x8' or smaller so need a 60w incandescent or lower. One of the others is a 40w fluorescent tube. Which I make 1100w or less for "low energy" luminaires if I turned them all on at once.

 

lighting is the lowest value....usually, immersion heaters, elec shower, elect cookers, ring mains are the highest at 40A to 32A look at your fuse board & post all the MCB values..you will find the total is higher than the 100A main fuse...the 100A is what the elec board have to take into account not your personal consumption as you could turn off of all you stuff when you leave the room & some one else could leave it all on ...

 

The only time "personal " consumption is used is loading on a substation, but that is not house by house...just the loading on each feeder out from the substation...

 

Any elec cable large or small has a max current rating.....to add more load can't be done as over the cable rating so new additional cables down the streets have to laid....

 

Tesla is 54kw egolf is 35kw.......imagine a feeder cable to 100 houses with say half electric cars 25 tesla & 25 egolf...all charging evening to overnight in winter when heating, hot water, lighting, tv etc on..when the greatest demand is on the elec system.... 

 

Like I said the existing sytems can't cope...

 

 

 

Edited 8 September, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

Plenty Wind Water & Sun around the Moray Firth and community wind farms and the solar farms coming so just the infrastructure to be got in place for those that can change there driving habits and needs.

Not as though anyone is being forced to drive electric or hybrid yet but the incentives will be coming, 

the dealerships are gearing up.

Not so sure that 'Gleaner Oil' filling stations will have fast chargers, but ASDA, TESCO, Sainsbury can easily install them, Nicola & Keith will make it worthwhile no doubt.

Mixed reviews on the driving of the new Leaf.  Autocar quite positive and Top Gear quite negative.

 

Acceleration, I would have thought, have impressed Top Gear more.

 

Still much about the range of these cars.   I think there needs to be a lot more about how to get the best range ie over 200 miles from the Leaf and the Zoe, and the running costs saving as well as the environmental benefits.

 

I know we do not tend to keep our cars in garages but how much better these cars would be in the batteries were kept warmer in winter and get the sort of range one gets in the summer in the winter as well range than the worrying only two thirds the range in the depths of winter ie around 125 miles which is worrying low.  We can learn a lot from the Norwegian on how to do this as they are pioneering running EVs in colder weather.       

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/leaf/first-drive-0

 

 

 

Edited 9 September, 20178 yr by lol-lol

 

Interesting technical insight to getting the best out of the Tesla S P 100 D acceleration etc (battery warming process takes 10 minutes and part knackers some components but wow against the 911R) .....

 

https://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives/chris-harris-drives-tesla-model-s-p100d

Edited 9 September, 20178 yr by lol-lol

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Mixed reviews on the driving of the new Leaf.  Autocar quite positive and Top Gear quite negative.

 

Acceleration, I would have thought, have impressed Top Gear more.

 

Still much about the range of these cars.   I think there needs to be a lot more about how to get the best range ie over 200 miles from the Leaf and the Zoe, and the running costs saving as well as the environmental benefits.

 

I know we do not tend to keep our cars in garages but how much better these cars would be in the batteries were kept warmer in winter and get the sort of range one gets in the summer in the winter as well range than the worrying only two thirds the range in the depths of winter ie around 125 miles which is worrying low.  We can learn a lot from the Norwegian on how to do this as they are pioneering running EVs in colder weather.       

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/leaf/first-drive-0

 

 

 

With EV's the range is the most critical feature for the majority of drivers, way above acceleration times. A fuel tank with a 200 mile range would be considered poor, but it only takes a few minutes to re fuel and there are plenty of fuel stations about. The big concern with EV's is you will have to make major changes to the way you use the vehicle to achieve a decent range. On a hot summers day the air con is going to reduce the range, on a freezing cold winter night the lights and heater are going to reduce the range. If you're going on a 150 mile trip you're going to be nervous about getting there, then is there a charging point nearby that's available? plus charging times are too long.

Not everyone has a garage and might live in a narrow street where you can't always park outside your own house or in a tower block, so they can't charge the batteries at home.

In the current format EV's are still not the answer for most drivers. 300 mile range with standardise battery packs that slide out and a charged pack slides in would be more like what is required.

On 9/9/2017 at 11:26, moley said:

With EV's the range is the most critical feature for the majority of drivers, way above acceleration times. A fuel tank with a 200 mile range would be considered poor, but it only takes a few minutes to re fuel and there are plenty of fuel stations about. The big concern with EV's is you will have to make major changes to the way you use the vehicle to achieve a decent range. On a hot summers day the air con is going to reduce the range, on a freezing cold winter night the lights and heater are going to reduce the range. If you're going on a 150 mile trip you're going to be nervous about getting there, then is there a charging point nearby that's available? plus charging times are too long.  Not everyone has a garage and might live in a narrow street where you can't always park outside your own house or in a tower block, so they can't charge the batteries at home.  In the current format EV's are still not the answer for most drivers. 300 mile range with standardise battery packs that slide out and a charged pack slides in would be more like what is required.

 

I think the range can be much better than many either believe or experience due to the lack of knowing how to get the best out of these cars, particularly the new Leaf and the Zoe, where the NEDC range is 235 miles and 250 miles respectively and by driving in an EV mind set can make a huger difference to range ie choose the shorter A and B road routes rather than the longer Motorway routes to destinations.

 

I believe the aircon, heater and lights are minor power draws compared to battery temperature affected by ambient temperature on driving range and there are ways to help the battery capacity to accept more charge ie pre-condition charge it just before driving by using your phone app to get the car to journey prepare when you are munching your coffee.    

 

The money one can save is just huge and with fuel now around 120p a litre in towns and 135p on motorways it look like making more sense as time goes on an new charge point being added every week.  A recent honest review......

 

     

 

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

The new Leaf and the Zoe, where the NEDC range is 235 miles and 250 miles respectively and by driving in an EV mind set can make a huger difference to range ie choose the shorter A and B road routes rather than the longer Motorway routes to destinations.

NEDC:

Quote

2017 Nissan Leaf (30 kWh battery)155 miles
250 km24,14 kWh/100 miles
15 kWh/100 km

 

 

I did the numbers recently, and over 10 yrs and 180,000 miles my 3yr old Octavia is still cheaper to run than a new Zoe, partly due to the extra cost of initial purchase, which is only just offset by 10yrs of fuel purchases. And this doesn't include the monthly lease. However, the numbers may add up in your favour with congestion charges, parking fees etc.

 

But...You still can't fit 4 people and a week's camping gear in a Zoe.

8 hours ago, amwphotos said:

I did the numbers recently, and over 10 yrs and 180,000 miles my 3yr old Octavia is still cheaper to run than a new Zoe, partly due to the extra cost of initial purchase, which is only just offset by 10yrs of fuel purchases. And this doesn't include the monthly lease. However, the numbers may add up in your favour with congestion charges, parking fees etc.

 

But...You still can't fit 4 people and a week's camping gear in a Zoe.

 

One would certainly hope to see estate/longer versions of the Zoe in the next  year or two.  There is almost no penalty for having an estate, or an extended hatch version, like the Octy is of the Golf, as the extra chassis weight makes little to no difference in fuel consumption but, like is planned for the Leaf, the ability to put another 50% more battery pack, which would actually, add considerable weight, but would get the range up to beyond 250 miles.

 

Clio estates were not a big seller although the Dacia Logan, based on the Clio mark 3, has been but still only probably half of the hatch models but the volumes are getting there and it only takes another 10%, 20% further rise in hydrocarbon fuel prices, like we have seen since fuel was £1 a litre just 18 months ago, to start pushing the equation further in EV favour,  As you say, add city entry costs for Internal Combustion engine cars, and definitely diesels, for cities such as Cardiff and any others of a decent size, plus more and cheaper EV charging stations, the balance changes even more as it inevitably will.

   

8 hours ago, moley said:

NEDC:   2017 Nissan Leaf (30 kWh battery)155 miles
250 km24,14 kWh/100 miles
15 kWh/100 km

 

 

 

I think one would only consider a 30 kWh leaf if there was an absolute bargain available now the 40 kWh Zoe is available and the 40 kWh Leaf is only a few months away and both those cars are around 240 miles NEDC ie 180 normal driving Summer range and 125 miles depths of winter range with no battery pre-conditioning pre-start routine via the mobile app etc....   

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't imagine Top Gear supporting the death of the camshaft.

New offshore wind power is now (much) cheaper than nuclear

 

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/offshore-wind-price/ 

Posted by Mal Chadwick - 11th September 2017

 

 

This is huge. The price of offshore wind power has just dropped to a record breaking low, coming in cheaper than nuclear power for the first time.

New auction results out today show that the price of new offshore wind has fallen by more 50% since 2015, and it’s now significantly cheaper than nuclear. It’s very likely that offshore wind power will keep getting cheaper too. But while this good news is splashed all over the media, the government’s energy policy still hasn’t quite caught up.  

Even though the government says it supports offshore wind, right now, the Prime Minister still plans to commit billions of pounds of bill payers’ money to nuclear, and she still backs a big roll out of fracked gas. We must urgently remind Theresa May that she should listen to the evidence about proven, lower-cost renewables, and respect what the public wants . That means backing clean, sustainable energy, not more nuclear and fossil fuels.

Around the world, renewables have become cheaper and scaled up faster than anyone predicted. In the UK, offshore wind beat its own cost reduction target four years early – thanks to huge innovation and increases in turbine efficiency. UK offshore turbines are already generating enough electricity to match the needs of four million homes, and the industry currently provides full time employment for around 10,000 people.  At moments like these, when clean energy is headline news, the government should be feeling the pressure to change course on its energy policy. So can you help turn up the pressure? Almost 100,000 people have called on the Prime Minister to back clean power in the UK.   Building a world that’s free from the threat of climate change is at the heart of so many campaigns we’ve worked on together. Over the years, Greenpeace supporters and activists have helped to block new coal plants and stand up to the fracking industry. But today’s wind power breakthrough is a chance to show the government that they can – and must – choose a better path. Let’s make sure they can’t ignore this.

 

SIGN THE PETITION

 

They have completed the 10,000 miles @ 114 miles a time i think he is saying on the news with the smaller battery car.

 

I think Nissan would get lots more interest if they did an Estate Version of a Leaf, (are the longer roofs not supposed to help improve efficiency? Can Solar Cells not be on the roof for assisting charging while parked outside in the sun?)

& then also a Light Goods Version with just Front Seats and a Guard with the rear to carry goods, & dark Tint glass to the rear as Citroen & others have done before with diesel estates.

Not everyone wants to drive what looks like a van for commercial / business use ones that handles like some taller LCV do.

Then some of those have the aerodynamics of a Yeti / Soul which is not that great with Petrol or Diesel so probably not that great 

with an EV.   (I do like a KIA Soul EV for the seating position, but the range is pathetic....)

 

 

Edited 13 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

More good news for the battery 

https://www.cemag.us/news/2017/09/future-sustainable-battery-technology?et_cid=6103796&et_rid=916553762&type=cta&et_cid=6103796&et_rid=916553762&linkid=https%3a%2f%2fwww.cemag.us%2fnews%2f2017%2f09%2ffuture-sustainable-battery-technology%3fet_cid%3d6103796%26et_rid%3d%%subscriberid%%%26type%3dcta

On ‎08‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 09:08, fabdavrav said:

 

lighting is the lowest value....usually, immersion heaters, elec shower, elect cookers, ring mains are the highest at 40A to 32A look at your fuse board & post all the MCB values..you will find the total is higher than the 100A main fuse...the 100A is what the elec board have to take into account not your personal consumption as you could turn off of all you stuff when you leave the room & some one else could leave it all on ...

 

The only time "personal " consumption is used is loading on a substation, but that is not house by house...just the loading on each feeder out from the substation...

 

Any elec cable large or small has a max current rating.....to add more load can't be done as over the cable rating so new additional cables down the streets have to laid....

 

Tesla is 54kw egolf is 35kw.......imagine a feeder cable to 100 houses with say half electric cars 25 tesla & 25 egolf...all charging evening to overnight in winter when heating, hot water, lighting, tv etc on..when the greatest demand is on the elec system.... 

 

Like I said the existing sytems can't cope...

 

 

 

 

 

Just to back up what I was stating....Scottish Power have voiced their concerns (unsurprising) on the TV today:-

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-41373466

 

Chief Exec. Mr Anderson said: "The worst position for this country to be in and the worst position for customers is that we get huge enthusiasm, people rushing out to buy electric cars because the price has come down, and then we can't allow people to plug them in because we haven't invested in the infrastructure.

"So one of the things we're looking at now is how we plan what has to happen to the distribution system."

The estimate of a 20%-30% increase in demand for electricity comes after years of gradually declining power use, much of that due to growing energy efficiency and the closure of older, energy-intensive industries. The added challenge of cars is the change in technology from an eight-hour overnight charge to a rapid charge of 15 to 20 minutes.

If several car owners on a residential street plug those in at the same time, the system could not cope.

Mr Anderson said: "The system that takes the wires into the house, down the street, to local businesses - how do we make sure it can cope with that level of demand? It'll take a long time to plan and deliver.""

 

Pretty much word for word what I was stating...but then I did work for the old Hydro Board.

 

There will come a time when you may be refused a fast car charger as the cables in your area can't cope as too many other people asked first........

I should imagine in time, as a point of difference, many businesses will see the need to attract customers with fast charging points in order to remain competitive. Fast food/conveniences in particular.

I'm planning to buy a 2nd gen first version Leaf, 63 to 17 reg with 24kWh battery. It'll be used as town run-about complimenting the Octavia diesel.

 

With regard to charging, I will not be installing any form of charger to my house just yet. I'll just charge via standard 13A 3-pin plug. Then, when tech becomes available, I'll get the distributed smart charger. It'll be able to trickle charge the car using solar panels and communicate with the grid to charge at the ideal time.

 

Hopefully it can also do Vehicle-2-Grid, where when tariff is good, I can make money off the plugged in EV. I'd also want to use its battery for my house consumption in the evening, for example: maintain the car at between 40-80% during the day, depend on solar. During evening, use up to 5kWh of the car's battery (1 full day of my house uses 10kWh, so 5kWh for evening is more than enough). So if I switch to economy-7 or any variable tariff, I can potentially never have to pay the higher tariff. The EV will be my house battery.

 

In short, indeed current supplier and user infrastructure may not be enough. Micro-grid where everyone has solar on their roof and distributed supplier of an army of battery owners will be the future.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

I'm planning to buy a 2nd gen first version Leaf, 63 to 17 reg with 24kWh battery. It'll be used as town run-about complimenting the Octavia diesel.

 

With regard to charging, I will not be installing any form of charger to my house just yet. I'll just charge via standard 13A 3-pin plug. Then, when tech becomes available, I'll get the distributed smart charger. It'll be able to trickle charge the car using solar panels and communicate with the grid to charge at the ideal time.

 

Hopefully it can also do Vehicle-2-Grid, where when tariff is good, I can make money off the plugged in EV. I'd also want to use its battery for my house consumption in the evening, for example: maintain the car at between 40-80% during the day, depend on solar. During evening, use up to 5kWh of the car's battery (1 full day of my house uses 10kWh, so 5kWh for evening is more than enough). So if I switch to economy-7 or any variable tariff, I can potentially never have to pay the higher tariff. The EV will be my house battery.

 

In short, indeed current supplier and user infrastructure may not be enough. Micro-grid where everyone has solar on their roof and distributed supplier of an army of battery owners will be the future.

 

 

If you have solar, you usually feed into the mains grid, even micro grid of a few houses joined with solar & distributed supplier & battery banks elsewhere will still require additional cables to be laid down the streets...

 

Unless you have totally separate off-grid solar with battery storage to then charge car, you WILL have to lay additional cables down the streets, doesn't matter which way you try to get around it, the existing infrastructure from the main grid to the substations, & then down the streets was not designed with electric cars in mind...& therefore cannot cope with the high additional loads...so new cables, bigger or more substations which pump out noise & EM fields which affect electronics, & actually consume electricity ...

 

Then there is the push for more electric heating to lower CO2...which is the worse advice ever as totally inefficient compared to gas...so more load on electric network systems....

 

fecking stupid headless chicken rush to total green tree hugger status...& they miss the important stuff which has been off the shelf for years...idiots!!

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-41373466 

^^^ Yesterdays link to the news story, re-post.

 

Keith Anderson and the smart people he works for and with will sort out just how much the customers & tax payers have to pay & have to subsidise them to have the infrastructures in place sometime i am sure.

http://www.iberdrola.com/about-us 

http://scottishpower.com/pages/keith_anderson.aspx 

http://scottishpower.com/pages/renewables.aspx 

They are not doing anything for free. They are not losing money or ever going to post losses other than for corporate tax reasons.

Producing and selling energy / electricity is their business, so they want to sell as much as they can produced at the least cost to their corporation maybe with the best subsidies & grants for the greatest profit to them.

 

He speaks about 'this country' and i think he means the 4 countries making up the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, and he talks about the UK Government & the Scottish Government, 

only the Scottish Government is getting on with things or saying they are and the UK Government just keep talking.

 

So renewables are producing electricity and energy, and can produce more, and the national grid and local infrastructures need the expenditure on them, 

and thats just a case of the Governments flashing the cash, getting more employment opportunities out of that, more school leavers working, 

changes in the UK Motor Industry and the likes.

BREXIT is coming anyway and there is all change for the UK / the 4 countries making up the UK.

 

http://greenerscotland.org/greener-travel/greener-driving/grants-and-funding 

http://jorro.co.uk/domestic-pricing 

 

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

18 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

 

If you have solar, you usually feed into the mains grid, even micro grid of a few houses joined with solar & distributed supplier & battery banks elsewhere will still require additional cables to be laid down the streets...

 

Unless you have totally separate off-grid solar with battery storage to then charge car, you WILL have to lay additional cables down the streets, doesn't matter which way you try to get around it, the existing infrastructure from the main grid to the substations, & then down the streets was not designed with electric cars in mind...& therefore cannot cope with the high additional loads...so new cables, bigger or more substations which pump out noise & EM fields which affect electronics, & actually consume electricity ...

 

I'm confused, why do you need additional cables for house battery packs and roof solar? It all happens within the house, at the same time it will reduce load on the infrastructure by consuming less electricity from the grid.

 

Battery packs will enable better load balancing at a smaller scale. There will be less current going through the grid, not more. So there shouldn't be any need to upgrade any of the existing infrastructure. Only need to make everything use the data that's available.

 

For example, if you are okay with an overnight slow charge, your charger will charge the car at cheapest rate.  if you want to charge your car quickly, you pay more for the privilege. The payment is then sent to your neighbours who has battery packs on their wall and are feeding into the grid to help you quickly charge your car.