Diesel First Registrations  down 29.9 %, much of UK first registrations are Diesels or were, over 50%

EV & Hybrid up 36.9%, overall First Registrations down 12.2%.  That is the important number to look at.

 

All numbers need close scrutiny as First Registrations are not People Bought or never bought but leased, that is also Manufacturers never sold to customers but to themselves for 3 months, piled them into Dealerships, later less tax to HMRC compared to selling a new car to Individuals / companies,or did with some or many,

maybe with lots of EV's & Hybrids, not Diesels as they are not getting bought Ex Management / Demonstrators.

Who want to buy an ex Demonstrator Diesel in January / February, and the Dealers / Manufacturers want New Sales February & March.

 

Never any mention of the biggest buying group in the UK Motability Finance and the people that are the customers having cars taken from them as they do not get PIP, and less qualifying and then leasing from Motability  are are much younger than previously and not leasing diesels so Motability are not buying them.

Diesel registrations drop by a third in October 2017 _ Autocar.mhtml

Diesel and petrol almost equal in November registration figures _ Autocar.mhtml

Edited 9 November, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

9 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Diesel First Registrations  down 29.9 %, much of UK first registrations are Diesels or were, over 50%

 

 

 

 

Nope diesels were 47.7% market share, now at 42.5%......petrol was at 49.0% now at 52.8% market share...also bear in mind most decent hybrids are petrol based

Edited 9 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

Yes just posted the November 2016 article.   Yes most are Petrol based hybrids, but that will never stop the likes of Porsche saying how their sale rose by a big percentage from the small number of actual Diesel Hybrid they sell.

 

Statistics and damn statistics and manipulating of figures is simple the SMMT are experts at it.

But they publish numbers.

http://smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations 

Amazing that Chevrolet, Subaru & Infiniti First register so few vehicles in a month.

 

So who is surprised Diesel First Registrations are down, or vehicle first registrations for that matter, 

there are financing worries in the UK, and vehicles should not need replacing 2 or 3 yearly.

People are also waiting for the Budget this month. Waiting for scrappage scheme as well.

Waiting for BREXIT to happen or some idea what that means, Waiting for car prices to drop.

Edited 9 November, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

No inclusion in picture above of the electric car we make ie the Auto-Lib Bollore car we do but then we do not sell them we just rent them, by 6 minute slots.

 

We have taken up 100,000 car journeys a day in Paris that would be by a car or other means, tube journey that some people are less happy to do as terrorist have targeted the Metro\Tube.  I think we are allowed to run on the non-car Sundays when internal combustion vehicles are not.

 

Still debating about the Zoe, the new Leaf just looks so good visually and on spec ie hot/warm hatch acceleration, all Nissan-Renault but I would like to stay Renault so hope there is a hotter Zoe with the same 41 kW H battery or better.      

Edited 10 November, 20178 yr by lol-lol

Yep, good to see an attractive Leaf.

A longer range second hand one would be a tempting proposition for us.....in a few years.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Still debating about the Zoe, the new Leaf just looks so good visually and on spec ie hot/warm hatch acceleration, all Nissan-Renault but I would like to stay Renault so hope there is a hotter Zoe with the same 41 kW H battery or better.      

The new Leaf would be a better all round choice when compared against Zoe.

 

Problem with Zoe is that it only has AC charging, 22kW or 43kW. More and more rapid chargers will only have Chademo or CCS DC fast charging. It makes more sense to put the heavy and expensive inverter into stationary rapid charger infrastructure.

 

 

Hopefully the Zoe will nick the tech from sister company Nissan.  Also like to see it as a estate version and get close to the 150 off hp of the new leaf rather than weedy 85 hp for quite a heavy car.

Edited 10 November, 20178 yr by lol-lol

The writing is on the wall for the ICE powered car -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113722_eu-to-slash-vehicle-carbon-emissions-one-third-more-from-2021-through-2030

50 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

The writing is on the wall for the ICE powered car -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113722_eu-to-slash-vehicle-carbon-emissions-one-third-more-from-2021-through-2030

"These additional costs are significantly lower than the fuel savings from which consumers will benefit over a vehicle's lifetime," the Commission said in its report.

Are they talking about EV's because that's the reality of driving an EV: more upfront cost (at the moment), but vastly cheaper operating cost.

1 minute ago, wyx087 said:

 

 

Are they talking about EV's because that's the reality of driving an EV: more upfront cost (at the moment), but vastly cheaper operating cost.

As always, the early adopters, particularly businesses that require uninhibited access, will effectively pay for the infrastructure and initial high unit costs, I imagine.

What we end up with in a decade will be substantially different to what we have now.

On 11/10/2017 at 21:30, wyx087 said:

 

 

Are they talking about EV's because that's the reality of driving an EV: more upfront cost (at the moment), but vast tax avoidance.

Correction inline, bold. Seriously, EVs cause no less road damage or congestion than an IC vehicle of equivalent mass but are taxed on neither that nor the use of electricity as a road fuel (which should roughly quadruple their charge per kWh).

4 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Correction inline, bold. Seriously, EVs cause no less road damage or congestion than an IC vehicle of equivalent mass but are taxed on neither that nor the use of electricity as a road fuel (which should roughly quadruple their charge per kWh).

If you think pure EV are a tax avoidance tool, you can't be more wrong.

• They don't generate noise pollution.
• They don't generate as much brake dust particulates thanks to regen braking.
• Electricity I use are all generated with renewable sources, so no pollution when generating.
• No electricity transport pollution or cost due to re-using current infrastructure.
• Absolutely zero pollution at point of use.

The fossil fuel generates pollution at every point of its life, from extraction to refinement (oil refinery is a massive electricity user!), transport and finally burning at point of use. The fuel tax is more for the environmental damage than anything else.

 

Only the road tax is a mystery. But then, I also don't get why my Skoda road tax is only £30 which does the same damage to the road as a 2017 BMW i3 REx EV, costing £140 to tax. I'm sure there are also many "tax avoidance" Bluemotions you'd have an issue with.

 

 

I do agree PHEV (plug-in hybrid vehicles) are a tax avoidance tool. Their small battery and heavy engine makes them very pointless. Most people buying them are poorly informed and only really buy for the low company tax band. But don't confuse PHEV with REx EV (range extended EV, BMW i3, Vauxhall Ampere), REx EV are proper EV with a backup plan for when infrastructure fails. They can do meaningful mileage on electricity.

 

The costs of driving EV for long distances quickly add up though. I expect 50+kW rapid charger (enabler for long distance EV driving) will be heavily taxed when ICE cars die out. Shell will be charging 49p per kWh. Ecotricity charges £3 connection fee and 17p per kWh. Meaning £5 to drive 60 miles in a Leaf, only slightly cheaper than ICE car. Luckily the first leg will be almost nothing thanks to home charging on Economy 7 or using my roof top solar PV  

 

 

 

You also got to realise the vastly superior drivetrain on EV's. They require zero maintenance hence cheaper running cost. Major service at Nissan main dealer only costs £130, involves cabin filter and break fluid change, all others are inspection checks. Out of PCP, I'll only need to spend £35 every 2 years on brake fluid change and £10 DIY change the cabin filter.

Some reading: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/19460/nissan-leaf-fourth-report

8 hours ago, wyx087 said:

If you think pure EV are a tax avoidance tool, you can't be more wrong.

•  
• Electricity I use are all generated with renewable sources, so no pollution when generating.
• No electricity transport pollution or cost due to re-using current infrastructure.
•  

The fossil fuel generates pollution at every point of its life, from extraction to refinement (oil refinery is a massive electricity user!), transport and finally burning at point of use. The fuel tax is more for the environmental damage than anything else.

 

 

You also got to realise the vastly superior drivetrain on EV's. They require zero maintenance hence cheaper running cost. Major service at Nissan main dealer only costs £130, involves cabin filter and break fluid change, all others are inspection checks. Out of PCP, I'll only need to spend £35 every 2 years on brake fluid change and £10 DIY change the cabin filter.

Some reading: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/19460/nissan-leaf-fourth-report

 

So when you are not charging from your PV grid then you are using the National grid..& it gets its supply from various sources...& remember those nice winter days with high pressure, so short daylight & no wind...so you have to rely on traditional good old fossil fuels...

 

I'd like to see what the running costs re for years 5 to 12...considering I have my cars that long & longer......& 12 winters up here with me liking winter sports will kill the batteries quicker...

 

Have you seen the environmental disasters attached to the extraction & processing of the Lithium etc. batteries???...not nice...

 

The concept is nice, but still has a long way to go before it replaces the IC engine in my book...& for my needs....unfortunately I fear I will be forced into the situation & have to put up with substandard compared to what I have now.

 

Much like everything being forced online & the fact that loads of places around where I am are on old dial up...or on "superfast" 17.5mbps UL & 0.8mbps DL....like I am...on old overheads so will never get fibre optic...

 

I suspect foreign markets will bring ICE development to an uneconomic conclusion.......Beijing, Delhi, Paris, etc etc have given an unambiguous signal to the auto industry.

Trump can’t save them either.....he is an irrelevance.......nothing more than a blip if we’re lucky.

11 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

 

So when you are not charging from your PV grid then you are using the National grid..& it gets its supply from various sources...& remember those nice winter days with high pressure, so short daylight & no wind...so you have to rely on traditional good old fossil fuels...

 

I'd like to see what the running costs re for years 5 to 12...considering I have my cars that long & longer......& 12 winters up here with me liking winter sports will kill the batteries quicker...

 

Have you seen the environmental disasters attached to the extraction & processing of the Lithium etc. batteries???...not nice...

 

The concept is nice, but still has a long way to go before it replaces the IC engine in my book...& for my needs....unfortunately I fear I will be forced into the situation & have to put up with substandard compared to what I have now.

 

Much like everything being forced online & the fact that loads of places around where I am are on old dial up...or on "superfast" 17.5mbps UL & 0.8mbps DL....like I am...on old overheads so will never get fibre optic...

 

 

You are right, this exact kWh of electricity that goes into my car may not be from 100% renewable sources. But this non-renewable sources don't get my money. We've been through this: I vote with my wallet, I pay for 100% renewable electricity, and for every kWh I use, renewable sources get paid. The more people do this, the more investment in renewable sources (including stationary batteries), the less fossil fuel stations.  Remember, Norway manages 99% renewable sources, it's further north, harsher than Scotland.

 

Have you seen the environmental disasters attached to deep sea oil spill? Have you seen the climate change caused directly by CO2 emissions, large majority of which comes from transportation? Have you seen the health issues caused by particulates?  Only unicorns are 100% pure and magical  

Lithium batteries last a long time, at least 10 years, considering EV battery usually get 8 year manufacturer warranty. By the end of their EV life after 10+ years, they can be repurposed to stationary batteries. I don't see how the other 70% of wasted fossil engine efficiency get used other than heating the cabin (it takes less than 5% of traction power to heat the cabin in EV).

 

For information, my 3 year old, 19k mileage Leaf still has 95% of its capacity. I expect by the end of my 3 year PCP, it would still have 85-90% of its capacity on the 6 year old battery. At 8 years should still be more than 80% capacity left. By then it'd be school run car definitely driving no more than 20 miles a day. So even only 50% capacity left (say at 15 years old) it's still a very usable city car at 45 miles range and still able to show large horsepower ICE cars where to go at 30mph zone traffic lights.

 

Thanks for your input on your needs. No one is pressuring you to purchase an EV today   I agree EV are not perfect at the moment, that's why EV are still can't compete in sales numbers. But there are a lot of misinformation and knowledge gaps on EV, I'm just removing those misconception that EV are dirty, expensive to maintain and tax avoidance tool.

The cleanest  -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113175_electric-cars-win-on-energy-efficiency-vs-hydrogen-gasoline-diesel-analysis

@wyx087 - You're doing nothing of the kind. You're just ignoring factors that don't suit your beliefs, such as the environmental costs of making the accumulator packs for EVs, the fact that, regardless of who you pay for electricity, someone has to use fossil fuel electricity, the fact that Larndarn's "Con tax zone" is exactly that as long as a vehicle running on fuel A gets preferential treatment over one running on fuel B...

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

@wyx087 - You're doing nothing of the kind. You're just ignoring factors that don't suit your beliefs, such as the environmental costs of making the accumulator packs for EVs, the fact that, regardless of who you pay for electricity, someone has to use fossil fuel electricity, the fact that Larndarn's "Con tax zone" is exactly that as long as a vehicle running on fuel A gets preferential treatment over one running on fuel B...

Not sure where you get your facts from. Here's my sources:

 

"Accumulator" battery pack manufacturing for EV do cause slightly more pollution, but whole life CO2 emissions are far less. Petrol only manages to emit less CO2 by comparing a featherweight supermini to Tesla Model S luxury car in high fossil fuel electricity area.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/101642/us-report-finds-tesla-model-s-can-emit-more-lifetime-co2-than-a-petrol-supermini

[In some areas of America] while the Model S emits 226g/km of CO2 for every kilometre it travels and the 7 Series manages 385g/km, the Mirage put out just 192g/km - though in other areas of America the Model S was found to produce fewer lifetime carbon emissions than the Mirage. 

 

Norway has 99% renewable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Norway

Besides, even driving mostly fossil fuel electricity, EV are highly efficient and cleaner: https://electrek.co/2017/11/01/electric-cars-dirty-electricicty-coal-emission-cleaner-study/

 

Fuel A gets preferential treatment over Fuel B because Fuel A doesn't fill people's lungs with particulates when they are moving slowly. It's not about the fuel, it's about emissions during less than ideal, real world, not lab testing driving conditions.

Relief for Londoners -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113794_these-12-cities-will-buy-only-electric-buses-from-2025-on-more-expected-to-join

12 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Relief for Londoners -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113794_these-12-cities-will-buy-only-electric-buses-from-2025-on-more-expected-to-join

 

Our rollout of electric cars in London is making steady progress though London's 44 Met Authorities is a bit complex to deal with than the Paris unitary one...

https://www.blue-city.co.uk/news/bluecity-spread-electric-fleet-across-london

 

We are also spreading the e-buses through other European capitals in the fight against NOX and PM pollution.....

https://www.blue-solutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2017.10.17-Bluebus-has-won-the-invitation-to-tender-issued-by-the-STIB-Brussels-Intercommunal-Transport-Company.pdf

 

Australia has done a pumped hydro survey and found at least 3000 suitable sites.

3 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Australia has done a pumped hydro survey and found at least 3000 suitable sites.

 

Most people have no idea that Australia has such hydro potential, I remember studying the the Snowy river scheme at College.

 

I think they said there was more snow in Southern Australia than in Austria and Switzerland put together.

 

Global warming/Climate change may have changed that perhaps?

 

So your electric car is nearly out of juice & you drive to the nearest charge point...except that ones out of service...& the nearest one is miles away...so what do you do.....

 

 

Tow truck!!.....

 

 

http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Council-will-repair-electric-car-chargers-14112017.htm

 

 

1 minute ago, fabdavrav said:

So your electric car is nearly out of juice & you drive to the nearest charge point...except that ones out of service...& the nearest one is miles away...so what do you do.....

 

 

Tow truck!!.....

 

 

http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Council-will-repair-electric-car-chargers-14112017.htm

 

 

 

However, electrical vehicle drive trains are a lot simpler.

So the question of what do you do when your overly complex ICE vehicle breaks down, also needs be asked.

 

Tow truck + expensive repairs!......

 

Don't mean to be flippant.  There are ups and downs to everything.

Just now, dg360 said:

 

However, electrical vehicle drive trains are a lot simpler.

So the question of what do you do when your overly complex ICE vehicle breaks down, also needs be asked.

 

Tow truck + expensive repairs!......

 

Don't mean to be flippant.  There are ups and downs to everything.

 

I do my own mechanic-ing & in 23yrs of owning cars have only had a tow truck twice..one seized brake calliper (piston seals)..the other time a written off car..

 

Electric cars are so complex that to fix at side of road you need to carry VCDS or VAGpro all the time on laptop...& you still have the same steering & suspension that an ICE car has so the same faults can go wrong...& most breakdowns are for tyres or flat batteries....

 

Just reading the ERwin manual for the egolf gives me a headache....special heavy lifts needed to remove the batteries, massive high voltages on loads of cables...