Heavy Duty jacks required just to change a wheel at the roadside on some AWD or 2 wheel drive SUV's, and low loaders to transport to the Dealerships. Also a Lap Top to get them to move with brakes off.

Some require that spare lifts just to get the Body off of not that old 4x4's built in Britain.

 

KISS is sometimes 'Simply Clever'. 

Aberdeen Toyota becomes Scotland's first hydrogen specialist service centre.mhtml

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

You are likely an outlier.  I'll bet that at any given moment you'll know the approximate condition of every component of your cars.  Most people are utterly clueless.  Many cars are perpetually low on coolant and oil as it's never checked.  Strange noises are dealt with using the volume dial on the stereo. 

The closer we can get vehicles to appliances, the better it is for vast majority of owners and everyone else that shares the roads with them.

6 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

So your electric car is nearly out of juice & you drive to the nearest charge point...except that ones out of service...& the nearest one is miles away...so what do you do.....

I've done my research before my 300 miles trip, it goes like this:

 

My 24kWh leaf can comfortably and reliably go 80 miles on a full charge. 60 odd miles from 80%.

We must leave 20 miles for contingency, in case charger broken or long queue. Just like in any petrol/diesel car.

So first hop is 60 miles away, plan B is a few miles further.

Second hop is 45-50 miles away, plan B is 10 miles further.

With current limited charging resource, planning is required for such trip. I'm sure you will say the same in 40 years when petrol stations have reduced in numbers.

 

I've commuted my 60 miles round trip only charging to 80% for a test once, got home with 1/12 left in battery meter, low battery warning and -- flashing in the range guess-o-meter. Plugged in LeafSpy OBD dongle and turns out there's still 18% battery left!  Like fuel tanks, EV have even larger reserve to protect itself.

 

2 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

Electric cars are so complex that to fix at side of road you need to carry VCDS or VAGpro all the time on laptop...&

Within the electric powertrain, what might break? Mechanical bearing and such? sure, and you can fix those with your skills. Electronics? highly unlikely when we have proper grounding and remove the 12v battery architecture.

 

People say warranty manufacturer provdes speak volume on their reliability: Nissan are giving 8 years warranty (including capacity degradation) on their newer Leaf battery. Tesla's are 8 years unlimited miles on the whole drivetrain.

VW/Skoda ICE on the other hand? 3 years and doesn't include critical parts such as clutch plates.

The AA, RAC, Greenflag surely must be buying in EV Support vehicles, ones with Compact Electric Generators to Fast Charge EV's with not enough power to continue.

Maybe get 30  mile range into the power pack / battery.

Maybe more compact than ones available already for Heavy Plant and Industry.

 

Recovery vehicles that if needed can uplift the vehicle and passengers and charge the vehicle while on the rear so as it can be charged when they reach a close by charger or their hotel etc, allowing for there being chargers there or un-occupied.

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

1 minute ago, wyx087 said:

I've done my research before my 300 miles trip, it goes like this:

 

My 24kWh leaf can comfortably and reliably go 80 miles on a full charge. 60 odd miles from 80%.

We must leave 20 miles for contingency, in case charger broken or long queue. Just like in any petrol/diesel car.

So first hop is 60 miles away, plan B is a few miles further.

Second hop is 45-50 miles away, plan B is 10 miles further.

With current limited charging resource, planning is required for such trip. I'm sure you will say the same in 40 years when petrol stations have reduced in numbers.

 

 

Within the electric powertrain, what might break? Mechanical bearing and such? sure, and you can fix those with your skills. Electronics? highly unlikely when we have proper grounding and remove the 12v battery architecture.

 

People say warranty manufacturer provdes speak volume on their reliability: Nissan are giving 8 years warranty (including capacity degradation) on their newer Leaf battery. Tesla's are 8 years unlimited miles on the whole drivetrain.

VW/Skoda ICE on the other hand? 3 years and doesn't include critical parts such as clutch plates.

 

 

When I plan a 300mile trip I just fil up once & go...........simples....

 

if I go winter mountaineering again that could be a 100mile each way trip & I know people who drive up from central belt to do the same where I go..so that's 200miles each way.....in the depths of winter...I'd like  to see an EV do the same....in the same time...

 

There is quite allot which can break on an EV car.....you still have conventional suspension, brakes, tyres etc....so all the same problems those have with iCE cars still apply to EV...

 

As for problems with the EV powertrain & battery packs....again masses of sensor, regulators etc which can cause a whole system fail safe shutdown if it has a "code 404" type error....so like an ICE then...

 

 

 

^^^ Not suitable for you then.  Not Rocket science is it?

 

Electric Charging Points going in now at car parks at some nice 'Wild Places' Ski Centres etc. 

As Wild Places are often Forestry Commission or other Organisations property and car parking no longer free unless at the road side.

Plenty Solar & Wind Power generation available in 'Wild Places;.

 

Scottish Ski Centres are having their 'Snow Factories' delivered around now, they will be using Renewable Energy, 

Wind, Hydro & Solar.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-41916959 

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

18 minutes ago, dg360 said:

You are likely an outlier.  I'll bet that at any given moment you'll know the approximate condition of every component of your cars.  Most people are utterly clueless.  Many cars are perpetually low on coolant and oil as it's never checked.  Strange noises are dealt with using the volume dial on the stereo. 

The closer we can get vehicles to appliances, the better it is for vast majority of owners and everyone else that shares the roads with them.

 

100% correct......what used to be the norm...now people don't want to take responsibility...reason we have TPMS as a legal requirement for all new cars...people not checking their tyre pressures...so the safety groups lobbied & so did the manufactures as they make money....

 

my mum knew how to service her first car & check the points etc...& we are talking mid/late 50's...

 

everything I fear is being "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator...

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

5 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

^^^ Not suitable for you then.  Not Rocket science is it?

 

exactly...but with the enforced future  (sooner in Scotland) ban on sale of petrol & diesel cars...I will have no choice in the matter........

 

I know they are (for now) allowing hybrids, but I don't trust the way things are moving...

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

Ah well, thats that then, best buy the last of the available ICE vehicles, and expect to not use them in some locations.

British Isles anyway, and its not exactly 3rd world conditions, and in Scotland you are never more than 75 miles from the sea as the crow flies, 

there will be electric points where you take your road vehicle to within about 20 miles.

13 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

As for problems with the EV powertrain & battery packs....again masses of sensor, regulators etc which can cause a whole system fail safe shutdown if it has a "code 404" type error....so like an ICE then...

I've not looked at repairing EV myself, but one thing is 100% certain: there's less sensors in EV's compared to modern ICE.

 

Unfortunately everything is dumbing down for lowest common denominator. It's frustrating and bad for hobbyist. But look at it another way, no more getting in the Mrs car in the morning and first stop is petrol station  

 

5 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

exactly...but with the enforced future  (sooner in Scotland) ban on sale of petrol & diesel cars...I will have no choice in the matter........

By that time, EV will be much much better and able to manage your 200 miles trip easily in the dead of winter.

 

By that time, when you want to do 300 miles trip, you'll be able to quickly recharge up to 80% by the time you come back from the toilet.

 

Also remember, by that time, you'll probably have more difficulty finding a petrol station compared to finding a charge point. Besides, you can always use the "granny" cable to charge your car using ANY normal 3 pin plug.

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by wyx087

2 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

 

there will be electric points where you take your road vehicle to within about 20 miles.

 

So long as the charge points are working...& the cash strapped council has the man power to fix it as its them who will doing it...that's why I included the link to the IC article today....a few posts back.

 

8 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

100% correct......what used to ne the norm...now people don't want to take responsibility...reason we have TPMS as a legal requirement for all new cars...people not checking their tyre pressures...so the safety groups lobbied & so did the manufactures as they make money....

 

my mum knew how to service her first car & check the points etc...& we are talking mid/late 50's...

 

everything I fear is being "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator...

Some might argue that it's progress.

Some people still have coal/log fires in the U.K.  They are essentially a luxury/hobby item.  If you just want a warm house, you get a central heating system and have an expert check it annually, otherwise forgetting about it.

I don't miss the mess and hassle of a real fire or the windows frozen on the inside from my youth.  Some folks miss the look and having a focal  point in a room, they quite like chopping wood and having stacked out front.....  I'll stick with my fully automatic, independently programmed radiators thanks.

Within 10 years, ICE will be a hobby/luxury purchase for those purchasing a vehicle.

Do you know, they will have to have them working.

 

The Breakdown Services like AA / RAC say they will get to you in 70 minutes, and mostly they do and sometimes they can not,

sometimes its just location location location and if you have to wait you do.

Nice if the engine can run and keep you warm, but then with broken down or stuck ICE vehicles that is not always possible.

 

When there was power outage on the A9 at Pitlochry & the A9 closed the ATM's go down,Security Vans with cash never got through, 

the Filling Station Pumps went down.

Shops, Supermarkets etc go tits up when the till can not open, cards not be used, cash taken and change given, 

fuel sold or pumped and payment received, once in a lifetime happening or once in a century, or is it once in a decade.

The Lights and heating went off, there was some with Gas, and Fuel at Blair Atholl.

 

Same on Arran, ferries off, electric off, Mobile phones no more.   Its all about planning, access, and getting things working, and the weather can mess that up, 

or incompetent Governments and Utility companies.

 

Some have all the gear and little idea.

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

For full disclosure, I love traditional engine technology on a personal level.  If thy are still legal when I retire, I plan to spend most of my retirement up to my elbows in oily bits.  Alfa Busso engines preferably.

15 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I've not looked at repairing EV myself, but one thing is 100% certain: there's less sensors in EV's compared to modern ICE.

 

 

 

I have the Erwin repair books for the egolf...& its way more complex than you think....40 pages of wiring diagrams just for the drive unit...the battery modules are in a different sections & have loads of wiring...

 

You still have loads of coolant systems to keep the drive unit & battery packs cool, so loads of sensors, pumps etc....thermal management control modules...then the control charging units, various module units, controllers etc....its mind boggling to say the least.

 

You also still have a gearbox but single speed....

 

these EV cars are as complex if not more complex than an ICE car..& most of the brakes, suspension, etc systems are the same...

 

don't believe the marketing hype....

 

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

5 minutes ago, dg360 said:

For full disclosure, I love traditional engine technology on a personal level.  If thy are still legal when I retire, I plan to spend most of my retirement up to my elbows in oily bits.  Alfa Busso engines preferably.

 

for me...I love ICE...

 

I would also love to get planning (can't as in conservation area) for a solar array on roof & have an ev car that can do what I require in winter...

 

Just that I see myself being forced by the Gov into getting an EV when they won't do what I want...so basically I end up going backwards so to speak...

Oh & for comparison ..

 

I stated that the e-Golf electric drive unit (not batteries) has 40 pages of wiring diagrams

my petrol engine has 37 pages of wiring diagrams...

 

so that's exact like for like the way VW do the wiring sections

 

Then you have the whole bigger section on the E-golf for the massive amount of earthing & equipotential bonding...

then of course the battery pack modules...etc. etc.

 

Like I say way more complex than you realise & its gong to be a big headache getting all the indi repair shops, breakdown lot etc up to speed in the time the gov wants to push it...

 

TBH I think it may force the indi places out of business as in the repair books there is a huge section of which level of technical bloke with what specialist quals can do what work.....so dealer only jobs ....& if your local dealer is a feck wit like AC then you are FUBAR...

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

Electric cars have more electrical wiring diagram than ICE equivalent, that is hardly surprising isn't it? Better comparison would be how many pages in total for the two powertrains? But the manual would also assume you have good ICE knowledge whereas the whole EV powertrain must be taught from scratch.

 

Battery coolant system are optional. My Leaf doesn't have it. But it should not need to be more complex than modern ICE today.

 

Module controllers are much easier to get head around than temperamental behaviours you'd get with mechanical parts. (eg. injector drift and cold starting)

 

Single speed gearbox without any clutch is 100x better in every way than the multitude of gearboxes we have today. No more clutch pack problems, no more power zapping TC, no more computer logic to fight and no more kick-down wait.

 

 

 

In terms of personal affection with ICE:

 

I used to love driving manual cars. But after driving automatic for a few years, because wife won't learn manual, I feel automatics make so much more sense for everyday driving, it is just so straight forward. The only downside is the IC engine, with such a limited power band. This is where EV comes in, after test driving one I'm completely sold. It's so fast and so smooth.

 

For maintenance, I used to do a lot of servicing myself because I was a cheapskate, it's dirty and messy. Now I only do general maintenance and leave messy oily stuff for garages. I was, again, completely sold on the EV when I saw its servicing worksheet: brake fluid + cabin filter. One can be cheaply done the other can be easily DIY'd.

 

I guess I have no love for ICE. I find it messy to work on, noisy in operation, dirty in every way, too complex mechanically and too many moving parts to go wrong. Like I say, I find EV powertrain is just so much superior. There'll be a lot less maintenance required, a lot more fun doing the actual driving. But then, I can never understand why people would spend time+money on their car "projects".

50 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Electric cars have more electrical wiring diagram than ICE equivalent, that is hardly surprising isn't it? Better comparison would be how many pages in total for the two powertrains? But the manual would also assume you have good ICE knowledge whereas the whole EV powertrain must be taught from scratch.

 

 

I stated drive train only ....so my comparison was correct..ie just the EV electric motor nothing else = 40 pages......just the 1.4 ICE engine = 37 pages.........

 

Erwin (actual VW workshop) manuals are ALL fully encompassing & start from scratch so the amount of "baby talk" is the same...

 

I'll clarify as you don't know how they work....the main manuals tell you step by step how to remove, replace, dismantle (if allowed) , & refit, calibrate, diagnose etc. on the car. & that is any component large or small...basically how to built it at factory...the e-Golf has the following workshop manuals specific to it :- brake system, gearbox, electric drive 235 pgs, elect system 271pgs, heating/air con, electric motor 239pgs, body repairs, basic wiring diagrams 677 pgs (40 of which are just the motor, 41 for earthing, 29 battery, 30 for charging system, 32 for heat pump ).

 

There are six pages which just contain the limitations & extent of what qualifications of technicians must be to carry out any work on the car due to the high voltage system...even just removing the under body cladding...(requires a person with EIP cert)...get anywhere near the HV system & you go two stages higher on the quals to an HVE tech (High voltage expert)

 

If you want to know how a system works you look in the "self study" guides....these are separate....that's the one full of the "this is a battery..see no ICE engine " type of baby talk....the one on the e-Golf is no.530 & runs to 60 pages....this just covers the new stuff & does not cover anything which is shared with other golfs.. 

 

Like I say these cars are way more complex that you realise.....Like everything else gets too complex so in the long term it gets binned...as too costly to repair

 

I doubt we will see 15yr old ev cars & older ones on a regular basis like we do with the ICE...

 

Personally I think it's a backward step that will be played out as PCP etc & instant this & "dump it get a new one for only £xxper month"...swap cars every 2-3yrs & never worry about mechanic problems...& how many hundreds of thousands of 2-3yr old used cars are sitting of dealer forecourts...???

 

Everyone totally forgetting that to build new things every few years uses more of the earths resources...& no not as much of this stuff is recycled anywhere as much as you think...

 

the EV car will be a disposable as an iPhone I'm afraid & we are walking headlong into it ..sheeple..

 

personally I prefer the old fashioned way..build it good & to last...kept my last car for 14yrs..this one as long (hopefully).....same for anything I buy ..why I have loads of Miele...had stuff 20yrs...still fine & easy to fix..if & that's a big "if" it goes wrong..

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

1 hour ago, fabdavrav said:

Like I say these cars are way more complex that you realise.....Like everything else gets too complex so in the long term it gets binned...as too costly to repair

 

I doubt we will see 15yr old ev cars & older ones on a regular basis like we do with the ICE...

In similar fashion, ICE cars are way more complex than before, this is just natural progression. The page count is strange, but I have to ask, what does that 40 pages say? If your hair dryer motor breaks, you replace the motor; if your car electric motor breaks, surely you don't go disassemble it and spend days unwind the coils!

 

End of the day, how many moving parts are there in ICE compared to moving parts in EV powertrain? I've not got access to service manuals. But one thing I can tell you for sure: there is far less moving parts in an EV. Less moving parts, less wear and thus less things break, less fixing, less maintenance cost.

 

As I've said many times, EV are proven to be more reliable. Despite the new technology, manufacturers are able to build their EV to be more reliable than their ICE counterparts: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/101723/used-nissan-leaf-review

Early concerns about battery life and reliability have proven unfounded, with 170,000-mile Leafs used as taxis needing minimal maintenance and still retaining most of their battery capacity.

 

Actually, from the same model year, I doubt we'll see as high percentage of ICE on the road compared to EV's. ICE cars have also become such a complicated mess due to ever strengthening emission standards, they have all sort of bodges (eg. stop/start, EGR, cylinder deactivation, hybrid) to keep it on the road. EV may have been over engineered to be complex at this moment in time, but they are low maintenance: no maintenance required on the actual powertrain!

 

Cars in general are becoming a disposable item unfortunately.

35 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

In similar fashion, ICE cars are way more complex than before, this is just natural progression. The page count is strange, but I have to ask, what does that 40 pages say? If your hair dryer motor breaks, you replace the motor; if your car electric motor breaks, surely you don't go disassemble it and spend days unwind the coils!

 

End of the day, how many moving parts are there in ICE compared to moving parts in EV powertrain? I've not got access to service manuals. But one thing I can tell you for sure: there is far less moving parts in an EV. Less moving parts, less wear and thus less things break, less fixing, less maintenance cost.

 

 

A EV may have been over engineered to be complex at this moment in time, but they are low maintenance: no maintenance required on the actual powertrain!

 

Cars in general are becoming a disposable item unfortunately.

 

Those 40 pages I refer to were just the wiring diagrams (not written instructions) for the connections & wiring harness solely to do with the electric motor only, nothing to do with the battery or any other systems...

 

the book which tells you..."If your hair dryer motor breaks, you replace the motor; if your car electric motor breaks, surely you don't go disassemble it and spend days unwind the coils!"

 

this is across several books

gearbox, 54 pgs

electric drive, 235 pgs, (battery, controllers, cooling for batteries, powertrain, charging)

electric motor 239pgs, (motor unit itself)

 

most of it is about high volt risk, safely de-energising the units to work on them...then running diagnostics...& no nothing about winding your own coils.....but much like the DSG gear box it states "currently no repairs are made" on certain items...

 

they still have to be inspected every year. (especially the HV system) .still has conventional front & rear brakes

 

 

Edited 16 November, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

Tesla’s truck vision -

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/4-ways-teslas-electric-truck-announcement-could-change-our-roads-2017-11-16?siteid=nwhpf

15 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

they still have to be inspected every year. (especially the HV system) .still has conventional front & rear brakes

Which wear far far less than ICE cars. There is no denying there's less work needs to be done on EV's in comparison to ICE vehicles, like I say.

 

Tesla new Roadster: 0-60 mph in 1.9 sec, 0 to 100 mph in 4.2 sec, a quarter-mile in 8.9 sec, 620-mile range.

https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/tesla-next-generation-roadster/

No ICE car can beat that!

22 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Which wear far far less than ICE cars. There is no denying there's less work needs to be done on EV's in comparison to ICE vehicles, like I say.

 

Tesla new Roadster: 0-60 mph in 1.9 sec, 0 to 100 mph in 4.2 sec, a quarter-mile in 8.9 sec, 620-mile range.

https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/tesla-next-generation-roadster/

No ICE car can beat that!

It’s the regenerative braking that makes such a difference AFAIC........almost one pedal driving.

Tesla truck ‘orders’ -

http://www.marke****ch.com/story/wal-mart-jb-hunt-are-among-the-first-to-order-the-tesla-semi-truck-2017-11-17