56 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 

I'm confused, why do you need additional cables for house battery packs and roof solar? It all happens within the house, at the same time it will reduce load on the infrastructure by consuming less

 

 

I did say if you have totally off grid solar to storage battery i.e. not connected to the mains so no feed in...electricity from the grid.

 

Quote

 

Battery packs will enable better load balancing at a smaller scale. There will be less current going through the grid, not more. So there shouldn't be any need to upgrade any of the existing infrastructure. Only need to make everything use the data that's available.

 

Wrong again, back my example say 100 houses on one feeder cable from substation. Now add 25 Teslas, & 25 e-Golfs to be charged overnight in winter when you have high demand from heating, water heating, cooking, etc. Doesn't matter where the power is coming from eg from powerstation to substation, or from neighbours battery packs via existing cable in road to your house. That existing cable cannot cope with the load on it as you are asking for the extra load of charging 25 Teslas & 25 e-Golfs

 

Quote

 

For example, if you are okay with an overnight slow charge, your charger will charge the car at cheapest rate.  if you want to charge your car quickly, you pay more for the privilege. The payment is then sent to your neighbours who has battery packs on their wall and are feeding into the grid to help you quickly charge your car.

 

Even if those battery packs feed into the grid on the existing cables, you with the fast charger will require the extra new cable & fuse board to supply the fast charger. If more than 20% of the people want a fast charger the existing cable cannot cope with the demand on it, no matter where the power comes from!!

 

It is ALL about DEMAND......unless everyone has a totally "off grid" solar to battery to fast charge their own cars, you have to use the street cables to move the electricity around & those are limited to a certain current capacity & many are at the max & those that have spare are usually no more than 10% spare...& the article above is conservatively stating we require an extra 20-30% extra capacity in those street cable & infrastructure.

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

Example:-

Say you have a single Tesla Powervault unit which has a storage capacity of 14kWh...(14kW supply for 1hr or 1.4kW over 10hrs)

 

• Tesla Model 3 has a battery capacity of 50kW to 75kW...so you will require additional 36kW to 61kW from the grid for 1hr to charge the car or combinations of (eg 3.6kW to 6.1kW over 10hrs)
• VW E-Golf has a 35.8kW battery so you still required additional 21.8kW for 1hr from grid or 2.18kW for 10hrs
• Nissan Leaf has a 40kW battery so you still require additional 26kW for 1hr from grid or 2.6kW for 10hrs.

To charge all of the above in 1hr even with the Tesla powervault will require a dedicated separate incomer supply.

Existing household supply is one phase & 100A main incomer fuse which is approx. 23kW. Mainly consumed by electric showers, immersion heaters for hot water, electric heating panels, cooking ovens, microwaves etc., jet washes, power tools, lawn movers, kettles.

 

In winter when the sun is low & daylight hours to capture are shorter, that's when more demand will be placed on the grid as you will not be able to get as much energy from solar to store.  Yes if you have the Tesla powervault & charge your cars over a longer 10hr periods then fine it can be done with existing cables, but as soon as you want quicker charging, you have to increase the infrastructure to the house.

 

Too many people getting on the bandwagon & not enough true facts re the infrastructure getting out....maybe go look & google why the USA has for the past 10yrs (at least) had "brown outs" ....this is the correct term for more demand than supply & the voltage has to be dropped way down & thus it "browns out".

9 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

Wrong again, back my example say 100 houses on one feeder cable from substation. Now add 25 Teslas, & 25 e-Golfs to be charged overnight in winter when you have high demand from heating, water heating, cooking, etc. Doesn't matter where the power is coming from eg from powerstation to substation, or from neighbours battery packs via existing cable in road to your house. That existing cable cannot cope with the load on it as you are asking for the extra load of charging 25 Teslas & 25 e-Golfs

 

 

Even if those battery packs feed into the grid on the existing cables, you with the fast charger will require the extra new cable & fuse board to supply the fast charger. If more than 20% of the people want a fast charger the existing cable cannot cope with the demand on it, no matter where the power comes from!!

 

It is ALL about DEMAND......unless everyone has a totally "off grid" solar to battery to fast charge their own cars, you have to use the street cables to move the electricity around & those are limited to a certain current capacity & many are at the max & those that have spare are usually no more than 10% spare...& the article above is conservatively stating we require an extra 20-30% extra capacity in those street cable & infrastructure.

It is indeed all about demand. When there's demand, the electricity price need to skyrocket. The first thing that will happen in very near future is when smart meters enable per second (or even more frequent) rate change. This will hopefully drive innovation in smart electricity uses.

 

Charging EV at 7kW (fast charger getting installed to homes today) doesn't seem like a massive problem, considering the usual power shower is 7.5kW, and large room heater are 3kW, it's often they are used at the same time. That would suggest current cabling to properties are built to withstand that level of usage.

 

Then we expand out to neighbourhood scope, where 50 EV's doesn't charge at the same time. I admit today's EV charger are inadequate and will just dumbly charge when plugged in. But smart chargers will come (driven by the above in electricity rates). Smart chargers will charge during low demand periods for cheaper rates, help to level out the grid's demand.

 

If the 20% of the people want to fast charge their car, then they pay over the odds for their peak time electricity. Household battery pack and other Vehicle to grid EV will help out with that increase in local demand. The substation will not need to be upsized because the demand can be managed locally across the whole neighbourhood.

 

 

Your example is well thought out. But one critical things is that you should not need to charge the car in 1 hour. Quick charger stations at motorway service centre is designed for that with suitable underground infrastructure (one would hope!). Parked overnight, you'd only need to charge it over 10+ hours using type 2 speeds (7kW).

Fasbdavrav,

Just imagine if all those Diesel Farms we have paid for need fired up, or the other generating stations that are on standby.

 

Just imagine if a few terrorists hit the power lines running north / south carrying the electricity to the national grid, 

the country will slow down quicker than a few tanker drivers taking industrial action and a picket line.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-41226164 

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

28 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

 is indeed all about demand. When there's demand, the electricity price need to skyrocket. The first thing that will happen in very near future is when smart meters enable per second (or even more frequent) rate change. This will hopefully drive innovation in smart electricity uses.

 

Charging EV at 7kW (fast charger getting installed to homes today) doesn't seem like a massive problem, considering the usual power shower is 7.5kW, and large room heater are 3kW, it's often they are used at the same time. That would suggest current cabling to properties are built to withstand that level of usage.

 

 

Yes the current home supply can cope with 7.5kw shower & 3kW heater as a home has 23kW, you want to ADD a 7kW charger to this as well!

 

Ok so lets rework for 7kW hour charger

 

So say 100 homes each with 100A 23kW supply, 25 have Teslas, & 25 have e-Golfs, winter charging with your 7kW fast chargers.

 

So to work out max capacity required for cable down road  100 x 23kW = 2,300kW plus say 10% cable existing capacity = 2,530kW as the max existing cable capacity.

 

50 x 7kW car chargers = 350kW 

 

You have 100 homes with a design of 2,300kW demand, now add the 350kW for the cars = 2,650kW & the cable only has a max of 2,530kW...& that is being very generous with the cable capacity & only half the homes having electric cars!

 

If all the homes had one electric car & the cable was at max then 2,300kW & add 700kW (7kw charger x 100 homes) = 3,000kW (design demand max)...even if cable at 10% spare, you are still over by 470kW.

 

Like I said the infrastructure can't cope...it might for a few homes now, but to do what the Gov wants requires huge upgrades

 

26 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Fasbdavrav,

Just imagine if all those Diesel Farms we have paid for need fired up, or the other generating stations that are on standby.

 

Just imagine if a few terrorists hit the power lines running north / south carrying the electricity to the national grid, 

the country will slow down quicker than a few tanker drivers taking industrial action and a picket line.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-41226164 

 

No need for terrorists...

 

just big EMP from the our Sun is enough....most power companies actually ramp up the power to all cables when this happens as it absorbs the EMP impact on the grid without blowing it out...dead end & low power branches cause problems with EMP strikes...

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

Life is maybe too short to worry about the sun & the day after tomorrow,

if someone pressing the big button it could be lights out for millions.

So best just follow twitter and see what The Donald is up too.

34 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

Like I said the infrastructure can't cope...it might for a few homes now, but to do what the Gov wants requires huge upgrades

 

I'm not disputing that, I'm saying you and the Scottish Power block are looking at it too rigidly, from a traditional power station point of view.

 

There are multiple ways to distribute the load:

1. across time by increase peak time electricity rates

2. across sources by pay people who help out using their connected batteries

3. across wider time period by paying people to charge their battery when excess generations

 

The future doesn't have to all come from big power stations, large substations and thick cables. Batteries in EV are not the problem, but the solution. That is what I'm trying to get across.

There are places in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland and possibly elsewhere in the UK that do not have National Grid Power.

There are Northern & Western Islands of Scotland where there is electricity produced or which can be that just goes to waste or would but there are schemes in place or in the planning to produce hydrogen.

 

What even happens the UK signed up to Air Pollution Reduction Targets & not meeting these will be very expensive in money and health issues.

 

Smart Metering & delivery is smart thinking, and EV's are being bought and leased and used ones bought so the charging points and power delivery needs to be 

worked on.

28 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I'm not disputing that, I'm saying you and the Scottish Power block are looking at it too rigidly, from a traditional power station point of view.

 

There are multiple ways to distribute the load:

1. across time by increase peak time electricity rates

2. across sources by pay people who help out using their connected batteries

3. across wider time period by paying people to charge their battery when excess generations

 

The future doesn't have to all come from big power stations, large substations and thick cables. Batteries in EV are not the problem, but the solution. That is what I'm trying to get across.

 

You don't get it ....

 

 

Doesn't matter where the power comes from you still have to work out the MAX demand & design the cables down the road to cope with it...the existing ones cannot cope with what the Gov wants

 

 

Like I said MAX demand is winter when short daytime hours & if a cloudy sky then your solar cells will generate very little power to store in your Tesla Powervault...so you have to draw power from the grid.

 

So say you have a single Tesla powervault at 14kW & Nissan Leaf has a 40kW battery 

 

So say you only get half charge on the powervault due to cloudy day so have 7kW, & you need to charge a virtually flat car. 

Using the 7kW charger you will get 1hr charge at 7kW...then you will require to charge your car for a further 4 to 5hrs at 7kW per hr (28kW to 35kW gain) using the grid.

 

So using the 100 homes, 50 with a 7kW charger & to stagger it with the existing cable capacity of 2,530kW (inc. 10% spare)....

so 2,300kW for the homes, & 50 x 7kW = 350kW = 2,650kW, so you could stagger easy 25 cars for 5hrs & then the other 25 cars for 5hrs over night. so the total load is 2,475kW each time, but that has to be build into a limit fuse for that cable to prevent overload of the cable.

 

But if every house has a 7kW charger, or a few fast charges are required, or the cable has no spare capacity ...then forget it!

 

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

The successful EV model is that a few houses have bought EVs and some might use rental EVs held at transport hubs.

 

They are charged at off peak time is typically 11 pm to 6 am when people are in the land of nod, not making cups of coffee/tea or showering.

 

Most popular EVs ie the Leaf and the Zoe from the Renault-Nissan Alliance, will get all te charge they need and can click on at 11pm, MDT, 1 AM or whatever, get their 20 or 30 kW-H they need.  We were running "preference" sensing power usage back in the eighties and it certainly is not beyond the wit of the software linked to trip devices to take advantage of the super cheap nuclear and renewable base load to charge up for a couple of quid rather than the diesel/petrol owner who is going to be paying £25 or more for his/her 200 mile energised car.  

 

 

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by lol-lol

57 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

You don't get it ....

 

 

Doesn't matter where the power comes from you still have to work out the MAX demand & design the cables down the road to cope with it...the existing ones cannot cope with what the Gov wants

 

 

Like I said MAX demand is winter when short daytime hours & if a cloudy sky then your solar cells will generate very little power to store in your Tesla Powervault...so you have to draw power from the grid.

 

So say you have a single Tesla powervault at 14kW & Nissan Leaf has a 40kW battery 

 

So say you only get half charge on the powervault due to cloudy day so have 7kW, & you need to charge a virtually flat car. 

Using the 7kW charger you will get 1hr charge at 7kW...then you will require to charge your car for a further 4 to 5hrs at 7kW per hr (28kW to 35kW gain) using the grid.

 

So using the 100 homes, 50 with a 7kW charger & to stagger it with the existing cable capacity of 2,530kW (inc. 10% spare)....

so 2,300kW for the homes, & 50 x 7kW = 350kW = 2,650kW, so you could stagger easy 25 cars for 5hrs & then the other 25 cars for 5hrs over night. so the total load is 2,475kW each time, but that has to be build into a limit fuse for that cable to prevent overload of the cable.

 

But if every house has a 7kW charger, or a few fast charges are required, or the cable has no spare capacity ...then forget it!

 

You need to think more creatively  

 

Your calculations assumes we are at capacity, 23kW power usage for each and every house during the whole EV charge cycle. Is that going to be persist 0-6am throughout the night? Seems very unlikely. 

 

When the neighbourhood grid is close to capacity, and you need to 7kW fast charge it, you'll then have to pay £1 per kWh instead of 10p off peak rate. That way most people will not demand fastest charging as soon as possible, they will plug in their EV and set a morning leave time, then forget about it. The electronics will then work out the best time and rate to charge the EV. Remember, charging batteries doesn't have to happen when electricity demand is high

 

There will also be EV's that wasn't used for the day, or household battery packs that can feed back into the neighbourhood. Sell their stored energy on-demand. If only 20 of those EV owners block out 25% of 40kWh battery for such things, that would be 200kWh of local electricity ready for anything. That's enough to fully charge 5 other EV's all by itself, not using a single unit of electricity from the grid. Best of all, this doesn't require any infrastructure capacity, supply comes locally and demand is local.

 

 

I've said this in the first post I made today, I plan to wait for smart EV chargers / V2G plugs. It'll solve the capacity issue rather than be part of the problem, unlike all current 7kW charger installs. 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

You need to think more creatively  

 

Your calculations assumes we are at capacity, 23kW power usage for each and every house during the whole EV charge cycle. Is that going to be persist 0-6am throughout the night? Seems very unlikely. 

 

When the neighbourhood grid is close to capacity, and you need to 7kW fast charge it, you'll then have to pay £1 per kWh instead of 10p off peak rate. That way most people will not demand fastest charging as soon as possible, they will plug in their EV and set a morning leave time, then forget about it. The electronics will then work out the best time and rate to charge the EV. Remember, charging batteries doesn't have to happen when electricity demand is high

 

There will also be EV's that wasn't used for the day, or household battery packs that can feed back into the neighbourhood. Sell their stored energy on-demand. If only 20 of those EV owners block out 25% of 40kWh battery for such things, that would be 200kWh of local electricity ready for anything. That's enough to fully charge 5 other EV's all by itself, not using a single unit of electricity from the grid. Best of all, this doesn't require any infrastructure capacity, supply comes locally and demand is local.

 

How do you move the 200kW  supply from some car batteries feeding back in between the houses if the cables between the houses can't cope with the extra power?...this is what I am getting at  a base line max demand has to worked out as basic items like trip switch's, fuses etc. need to be rated & fitted. Doesn't matter if a micro grid or power input, the cables down the street have a max rated capacity...& you can't go over that...many will be at or near it, & some may have 10% spare as per my examples.

 

Yes you can switch on the timers to 11pm to 6am which gives you 7hrs of charge time & 7kw is slow considering people are talking about faster chargers for the home, & car batteries are getting bigger capacities.

 

Going back....

 

So using the 100 homes, with the existing cable capacity of 2,300kW (no spare say)....

say each has a single Tesla powervault at 14kW & Nissan Leaf with a 40kW battery 

 

So say you only get half charge on the powervault due to cloudy day so have 7kW, & you need to charge a virtually flat car. 

Using the 7kW charger you will get 1hr charge at 7kW...then you will require to charge your car for a further 4 to 5hrs at 7kW per hr (28kW to 35kW gain) using the grid.

 

So that's 100, 7kW chargers = 700kW all with a window of 11pm to 6am & each requiring 4 hours minimum to charge the car. 

 

Existing cable is rated for 2,300kW, so deduct the 700kW = 1,600kW or 16kW power left for each home between 11am & 6pm

 

I know several new housing estates up here with no gas or LPG, so everything electric...& in the depths of winter even with a new insulated house, with all electric space heating (8-12kW or more), immersion tank taking 3kW, shower with 8kW....you are cutting it VERY fine...

 

I doubt the electric boards would warrant it, as too much opportunities for tripping. & don't forget I have totally left out losses due to cable lengths down the street (de-rating), & various other factors..

 

Either that or get used to a control panel stating "sorry we cannot carry out that request at the moment, please try again later".

Someone will work it out sometime! Or maybe they have.

 

 

 

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

Typical case which is looked at:- winter time, short days, long nights, overcast, so little solar charging, school term time, kids come home 3:30pm to 5pm, adults home from work 5pm up to 7pm. heating on, hob or ovens on for cooking meals, tv on, lights on, computer on, maybe electric showers also..so current supply & cables working near max.

 

Then someone wants to go out in evening maybe..& hang on we need to top the electric car on so I'll plug it in whilst we have dinner before we go out?....oh crap electric panel says N/A until 11pm...ok take the petrol car..

 

Friday late afternoon to early evenings 4pm to 9pm wintertime school term time are usually high demand  & quite a few local housing estates I know have loads of typical families...

 

I know plenty of places up here where there is no way the existing cables will cope if half the houses want electric charging points...even if only 7kW....let alone a faster 23kW dedicated point.....which would still take almost 2hrs to charge the Nissan Leaf & 2-3hrs to charge a Tesla model 3.

 

Daylight shorter by 4 minutes a day, clocks go back an hour next month, etc etc, 

but then if a EV does not fit into someones lifestyle, work life or location then they will not get one.

 

But then everyone can not anyway for the reasons you set out before, or because they do not want.  Not Rocket or Nuclear Science really.

 

Some might have as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, maybe other than the work vehicle / commuter or as the work vehicle / commuter, 

something to take to Low Emission Urban Areas coming to Cities and large Towns soon.

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

8 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Daylight shorter by 4 minutes a day, clocks go back an hour next month, etc etc, 

but then if a EV does not fit into someones lifestyle, work life or location then they will not get one.

 

But then everyone can not anyway for the reasons you set out before, or because they do not want.  Not Rocket or Nuclear Science really.

 

Some might have as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, maybe other than the work vehicle / commuter or as the work vehicle / commuter, 

something to take to Low Emission Urban Areas coming to Cities and large Towns soon.

 

Agree, but the way the Gov's are setting up the ban on new petrol & diesel cars & the SNP doing a "anything you can do I can do better" by stating the same target but years sooner.....how soon before the that applies to hybrids?....

 

Its the start of a very slippery slope IMHO....

 

personally I like the idea of battery only cars etc., however there are loads of problems that need to be overcome & I don't think that the Govs are going to get where they want in the time they think & "we" end up being caught in the cross fire...

'Phase out by 2032', so 15 years, in Scotland,

ban by 2040 maybe , seeing as they are not Derren Brown.  Or able to to produce magic money trees.  Get EU Funding....

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41167607 

 

 

Edited 26 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

 

11 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

Typical case which is looked at:- winter time, short days, long nights, overcast, so little solar charging, school term time, kids come home 3:30pm to 5pm, adults home from work 5pm up to 7pm. heating on, hob or ovens on for cooking meals, tv on, lights on, computer on, maybe electric showers also..so current supply & cables working near max.

 

Then someone wants to go out in evening maybe..& hang on we need to top the electric car on so I'll plug it in whilst we have dinner before we go out?....oh crap electric panel says N/A until 11pm...ok take the petrol car..

During that peak period, you'd have to pay way more for electricity, perhaps even orders of magnitude more. That would deter power waste and reduce peak demand. When near capacity, electric panel should say £5 per kWh, and you can decide if that bit of charge is actually needed.

 

I get what you are saying, in sole energy properties, where electricity demand is already near their limit. But sole electricity properties are usually apartments where any EV charging installation won't be installed from their breaker box. All houses I've seen are depend on gas for heating, 16kW of capacity per household is a lot of power without need for heating. 3kW oven, 3kW kettle, then there's lights, entertainment systems, 10kW of usage at most.

 

23kW chargers are not common, you need 3 phase going into your household. By that point you can be pretty sure your household is special and already has more cabling capacity built-in.

 

I don't get why do you keep using 100 households as example. When:

21 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Battery packs will enable better load balancing at a smaller scale. There will be less current going through the grid, not more.

The only increased load will be for those single households charging their EV. During peak time, you will effectively pay your neighbours' battery pack to supply you with the electricity for your EV. That way it is no longer the demand across 100 households going through a substation, it is one household creates the demand, other households contributes to the supply.

 

 

The tech in this area needs to mature faster and rolled out even faster. Unfortunately the mess they made of the smart meter doesn't look promising. People's mentality also need to change: electricity will not be fixed price, it is always fluctuating with demand, this is not a bad thing with the correct tech to take advantage of it. Battery is part of the solution.

The Only Solution is battery storage on big scales using vehicles and household and commercial premises with storage facilities.

Seeing as there is not enough storage for Electricity generated from renewables if there are not enough Hydro Pump Schemes, Hydrogen Production or any other electricity Storage Schemes being built.

A neighbour of mine is working for a company looking at using 'intelligent' immersion heaters as energy storage devices,  to mop up grid oversupply when it occurs.

Apparently the unpredictability of renewables makes this an issue which needs dealing with. (I don't mean that negatively, just factually).

 

It's a fascinating area, surely.

 

 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

 

 

I get what you are saying, in sole energy properties, where electricity demand is already near their limit. But sole electricity properties are usually apartments where any EV charging installation won't be installed from their breaker box. All houses I've seen are depend on gas for heating, 16kW of capacity per household is a lot of power without need for heating. 3kW oven, 3kW kettle, then there's lights, entertainment systems, 10kW of usage at most.

There's quiet a few 3bed detached bungalows with double garages that I know which are all electric..no gas...

 

Problem is in remoter places, no mains gas, so only LPG or oil, quite a few times developer just goes all electric for heating & water.

 

I also know quite a few places where they did oil or LPG for space heating & tap water but electric showers at 8kw plus..

 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

 

23kW chargers are not common, you need 3 phase going into your household. By that point you can be pretty sure your household is special and already has more cabling capacity built-in.

 

I

 

No need for 3 phase...elect board will just tee of another cable from your main one...& fit 100A fuse....basically a split incomer, common in tennaments

Now these remoter houses, businesses and communities can have a wind turbine, or solar panels even small scale hydro and battery storage,  and that is happening as anyone can see if they check planning applications.  

Companies are even paying you to have them on your land.   Not that strange as decades ago farms and cotter houses had wind mills /turbines and tractor batteries storing power.

http://cawt.co.uk/index.php 

Councillors on Planning Committees might just need to buck up their ideas where they are anti turbines

because scenery might be important but so it clean air.

http://north-harris.org/tag/hydro 

*enough to power 100 homes.*

 

Foreshortening gives a false impression of where the Turbines are North of Broughty Ferry (@ the Michelin Factory) & then North of Stirling.

(Michelin have been allowing many to earn high wages for many years in the area, to have nice houses, nice cars etc.)

 

Edited 27 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

@Headinawayoffski - Even in "remote areas" like North Harris (your cite) you can have windless days, and even entire windless weeks.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

@Headinawayoffski - Even in "remote areas" like North Harris (your cite) you can have windless days, and even entire windless weeks.

 

Remember those winters a few years back (2009-11)?? Nice & very cold...high pressure built up & virtually no wind for some weeks, but serious freezing temps even at midday, & short daylight hours...(& most solar panels are fixed so will not get max gain as at wrong angle as sun too low)

 

Basically worst case scenario...no wind power, very little solar, & high demand...

 

Don't care how big your battery bank is you will run out in that situation...

http://north-harris.org/tag/hydro  'What is the chance of a draught in June?'

North Harris is a Hydro electric generation scheme, not sure why it needs wind to blow other than for the wind farm, & i have no idea how much electricity they are generating between the two systems or if it is a pump storage system, and not just a river flow if no water pumped up

. Maybe they need to get the solar farm going as well.

http://north-harris.org/tag/community 

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-37173953 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-35666993 

 

Not sure really on the stuff about no wind in some area or another at times, 

the National Grid is not being shut down where people are on the grid, well not until the Extended Life Nuclear Power Stations do need a shut down, the last gas ones are closed, & the Hydro shuts down with the rain not falling, the rivers not running, and the sun is not shining when the wind is not blowing.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-41397133 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40149604 

Scotland is not short of energy, it just might not be able to provide that much excess to sell to the south.

Edited 27 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski