fabdavrav,  i remember those winters very well and the cold weather payments made for 7 days of 0*C Forcast or actual,

were 2 of the years 5 weeks & 1 year 7 weeks DD8 post code from the it changing to Aboyne weather station rather than Leuchers then Dyce.

 

The issue with reduction in renewables seemed to be lower rainfall meaning less natural river flow for Hydro Power & more Pumped storage required.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2012/03/2818/4 

Scotland exports to England / Wales about 20% of Generation, or did according to this, i have no idea what it is now 5 years on.

 

 

Edited 27 September, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

On ‎27‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 08:43, wyx087 said:

 

 

I don't get why do you keep using 100 households as example. When:

 

 

I did it as an example to make the maths easy..

 

However...

 

I found a reduced copy of a 11KV map I drew for a small town, where the electric layout was typical, & with typical cables, & a nice new build estate built late 70's early/mid  80's, mainly 2 & 3 bed semi detached bungalows, & some 4 bed detached house, all big gardens & garages.

 

Most feeders from the substation that do NOT cross link to other substations have a max of 22-28 houses on them.

All feeders start with a big cable & then go smaller towards the end & down side streets, basically to save money.

So main feeder out is 4core 185mm, buried rating of 441Amps. 

 

Smaller offshoots (5 houses) are 4core 95mm, buried rating of 303Amps, 

 

Ever smaller offshoots (3houses) are 4core 70mm buried rating of 252Amps.

 

So considering each house has a 100Amp main incomer fuse, you can quite easily tell that the electric board takes into account the type of usage etc., as if every house tried to draw 100A it would blow!

 

So what happens if half the houses want 7kW or faster car chargers?? (even just at night time)

 

Like I said & the Scottish Power bloke stated, the distribution network can't cope as it wasn't designed for it...

 

Edited 29 September, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

That's madness, surely household fuse should be such that when all houses drawing maximum should reach the cabling maximum. 

 

Better start installing household batteries to reduce peak time load. So instead of 5 houses trying to draw 500Amps at the same time, they all draw 300Amps more often. So overall power draw is increased due to EV ownership, but peak demand is managed "smartly" on each offshoot.

 

Here's hoping in 5-10 years time, we'll get home battery install subsidy.

The irrelevance of Trump and his flat-earth followers -

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112878_china-to-build-many-gigafactories-worth-of-electric-car-battery-plants

 

11 hours ago, wyx087 said:

That's madness, surely household fuse should be such that when all houses drawing maximum should reach the cabling maximum. 

 

 

 

Couple of points, some I have previously stated:-

 

Look at your own fuse board & add up all the values.....way more than the 100A incomer I bet, mine is 200Amp if I add them all up.

 

The technical term is called "diversity"...

 

If you look at your cooker or hob, the max power rating with all the rings turned up full will blow the MCB & cable as it is assumed that this never happens, 

 

So say it has 11.5kW of power at 230v = 50A rating of MCB & cables for actual max full power. This is not used, what is used is the first 10A & then 30% of the rest so 10 + 12 = 22Amp, is the minimum rating.

 

Same happens with cables down the street, substations etc.. & 4core 185mm is about £46 ex VAT per metre!! & just on my small area map there are Km of the stuff, so very expensive, which is why everything is downsized as much as possible, & why thinner cables are used for the latter half of cable feeders, & "T" offs.

 

So say you apply diversity to a 7kW charger @ 230v max = 30.4Amp max power. So then 10A + 6A = 16A minimum for diversity. However with a charger it is usually on full power or off, unlike a hob which can have various combinations of power across all rings, so this would must likely not apply & full power rating used instead.

 

However to be "fair" lets stick with the 16A for each 7kW charger & say 11 out of the 22 houses want this, so that's 11x16A = 176Amps on the 4c185mm 441Amp cable. This then reduces the power to supply everything else in those houses to 265Amps = 12.04Amp per house or 2.77kW. 

 

 

Even if you apply diversity to the charging, & have it staggered at night time, you will still have problems.

 

 

I know electrical stuff including the big layouts, as did it for a job & studied it at collage & uni as part of my coursework.

 

September another bog month of electric charge point 

 

14,000 public ones, 4,500 rapid charge.  330 added in last 30 days.

 

Still cheapest to charge at home at 7 kW no doubt.

 

https://www.zap-map.com/

 

Going to be a interesting choice to add an electric car ie Zoe to the fleet in March when one car needs to be replaced. Hopefully more info then on how to get the best out the cars by pre-conditioning etc before longer journeys via the ZE Apps....  https://www.renault.co.uk/owners/renault-ze/ze-services.html 

 

  

 

 

VW’s need for battery supplies -

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113014_worlds-3rd-largest-battery-firm-may-ally-with-vw-for-electric-cars-in-china

There are are so many batteries going to be needed world wide and the VW Group seem so far behind others with their technology, 

time will tell just how much money they have available once they finally pay up on all their past frauds, do all the recalls and fix all their current failures from sourcing dodgy components from other manufacturers.

 

 

Edited 3 October, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

Apparently GM sell more cars in China than the U.S. and they are going all electric.   Big demands on the battery tech front I guess.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/02/electric-car-battery-savings-nissan-leaf-ovo

 

Basically what I had been saying over the last 2 pages:

 

However, the cars’ batteries could also help energy networks cope with the increasing but variable wind and solar power on the system, by returning power to the grid at times of peak demand and smoothing out inconsistencies in energy supply.

...

In future, the flexibility provided by allowing power grid managers to draw on millions of electric cars would be “transformational”, he said. As well as avoiding the need for costly grid upgrades, paid for through energy bills, it could reduce the number of new power stations that need to be built, Fitzpatrick added.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/02/electric-car-battery-savings-nissan-leaf-ovo

 

Basically what I had been saying over the last 2 pages:

However, the cars’ batteries could also help energy networks cope with the increasing but variable wind and solar power on the system, by returning power to the grid at times of peak demand and smoothing out inconsistencies in energy supply.

...

In future, the flexibility provided by allowing power grid managers to draw on millions of electric cars would be “transformational”, he said. As well as avoiding the need for costly grid upgrades, paid for through energy bills, it could reduce the number of new power stations that need to be built, Fitzpatrick added.

 

 

That bloke has no actual realisation that the existing grid can't cope...as I have shown in my worked examples based on actual facts above...

 

Yes instead of building a couple of nuclear power stations, use surplus power from car batteries, that's fine when you have a huge uptake & the eventual 80 to 100% all electric fleet.

 

However a large spanner in the works....the Scottish Power bloke in my post mentioned something that quite a few people have forgotten...the rise of all electric houses..ie no gas boilers for space heating or hot water.

 

This is on the increase & will continue as various agencies are trying to phase out gas usage due to "not as green as electric". Unfortunately heating water & houses with electric heaters usually consumes more in kW energy (in some cases) than the gas boiler. 

 

oh here's a link to OVO energy siding with gas...

 

https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/heating-costs-gas-vs-oil-vs-electric-storage-heaters.html

 

 

So if more demand for all electric heating so a small boiler is 24kW...so add that to the electric grid along with your 7kW car charger & throw in the high pressure, no wind, short daylight hours & freezing temps of those couple of winters & add in the high demand..

 

Like I say it can't cope...all new cables down the streets etc. thats why the Scottish power bloke was going on about a 20 to 30% increase in grid capacity & capability required...

Edited 4 October, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

See from 1 min 18.

Lots of changes going to be needed and maybe EV's are not going to come down much in price as they become more available.

The products / minerals will be traded as is everything else and those in oil and gas will not want to be any less wealthy than they are now.

 

Now California 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113152_bill-could-ban-gasoline-car-sales-in-california-by-2040

48V pack -

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113240_bosch-creates-off-the-shelf-48-volt-battery-for-mild-hybrid-systems

They have them in the Bentley powering off the sway bar, and the Audi from the suspension, and powering the Electric Supercharger,

Honda & GM and others, so Bosch is just there with the technology that others have been working on and producing for other manufacturers other than the VW Group, Daimler, BMW or whoever.

Edited 13 October, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

2 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

They have them in the Bentley powering off the sway bar, and the Audi from the suspension, and powering the Electric Supercharger,

Honda & GM and others, so Bosch is just there with the technology that others have been working on and producing for other manufacturers other than the VW Group, Daimler, BMW or whoever.

It seems to be a plug-in for the masses..........I need to think of a reason to buy one though.

'Mild Hybrids',  powered by regenerative means / actions, no plugging in, ICE engines,  the vehicles for people that can not be bothered with cables.

Shell battery charging?.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113251_shell-buys-its-first-electric-car-charging-station-firm-in-europe

Yesterday @ Girvan & Ayr i watched for the first time people having to park up and wait to charge their Leaf or Zoe.

Cars parked on the limited number chargers for 30 minutes or what ever and other drivers and passengers standing around talking.

 

So that is the A77 pretty hopeless being not only a route to and from ferries but a tourist route with destinations that can be very busy.

Locations where there a huge Holiday / Mobile home parks with people traveling to and staying at, and going around the are visiting.

 

The Scottish Government are going to make the 'A9' an Electric Road, but there are so many routes up and down and across Scotland that 2 or 3 Public Charging points & 6 parking spaces are not going to be sufficient, and there will be times that a dozen charging points are going to be able to cope with people traveling and needing to charge a vehicle.

Not that pleasant hanging about for a few hours in cold weather or torrential rain waiting to get plugged in, 

and it will be highly dangerous in the worst of winter and blizzard like conditions, or even later today when it is 'a bit windy'.

Then maybe a Harbour or Sea front location with no shelter might not be a 'Simply Clever' location for charging points, 

nice on a sunny day though they can be as someplace to hang around.

 

4 years on since the Scottish Government announced their big idea, and what have they done really other than talked big, 

spent wastefully, and achieved very little so far with actual charging facilities, 

more EV's have been sold / rented and people got cheap finance / grants.

 

 

Edited 16 October, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

Early adopters pay in more ways than one, I guess George.

Some of these vehicle have 62 plates, ie bought / first registered 5 years ago.

That is quite possibly late adopters buying a Cheap Used EV.     

 

Keith Brown MSP was Transport Secretary Scotland, now he is Investment, enterprise jobs, low carbon, Bull Sh!te & what ever else, & off to the USA this week looking for Inward Investment, 

and Post BREXIT deals.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41096888 

 

They will be chasing a TESLA & DYSON Factory, Battery Factory, Charging Point manufacturing, Software etc etc

 

Just shows how lacking the Scottish Government is in talent that this waste of space is Scotland's great white hope.

Someone needs to ask him if he has ever run anything successfully or gained inward investments.

Maybe this time on his travels Amazon, Google and others will tell him they are going to pay more taxes in Scotland, 

or how if the Government give them more money like they gave Ryanair and Trump International in Tax / Rate Relief they will 

take even more advantage of the tax payers & provide more minimum payment jobs and some tax losses.

 

Traffic Scotland & Traffic Scotland.com is pretty useless no matter how much it gets in spending & how Keith Brown MSP bigs them up.

http://trafficscotland.org 

Edited 16 October, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

6 min recharge -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113332_toshiba-claims-6-minute-recharge-for-new-electric-car-battery-cell

 

 

More on e-Bikes -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113300_2018-zero-electric-motorcycles-longer-range-6-kw-charging-only-a-few-price-hikes