No hedging of bets they are counting on The Donald telling whoever is in charge of the UK to fire off the Nuclear Deterrent that we lease on PCP against North Korea and China fire some off as well and then Russia and the Oil, Gas and Minerals will not be depleted as quickly as were being predicted and as for energy it will be all around and heating homes 

will no longer require energy.

 

There will be plenty of wind, solar and hydro energy and not that many around needing to waste it.

 

Or alternatively things will just go on as they are, the Chinese, Japanese & South Koreans have it all in hand & they intend sorting things out and stopping

the Middle East countries pulling the strings and having everyone dance to their tune.

@Adam_

Usual place - borrowing from future generations.

Edited 26 July, 20178 yr by Wino

1 minute ago, Wino said:

Usual place - borrowing from future generations.

Ah the magic money tree the conservatives are hiding for rainy days.

Seriously though the powerstations need to at least be in the planning stages now for this to work surely? 

1 hour ago, Adam_ said:

Government to ban sales and production of petrol and diesel cars from 2040.

Where is the infrastructure spending to assist the change going to come from? Charging networks, powerstations etc etc. 

 

Network....   https://www.zap-map.com/

 

Money for Infrastructure could come from the extra revenue from all the import duties collected on goods coming from the EU perhaps?   

 

 

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Network....   https://www.zap-map.com/

 

Money for Infrastructure could come from the extra revenue from all the import duties collected on goods coming from the EU perhaps?   

 

 

Network! Where talking millions of cars not a few thousand.

 

Import duties from EU. 27bn extra just to cover cost of lost duties from fuel at today's rates plus 4 or 5 new powerstations plus charging network plus benefits payments for all the people out of work because of this.

 

Import duties will be massive. 

1 hour ago, Adam_ said:

Network! Where talking millions of cars not a few thousand.

Import duties from EU. 27bn extra just to cover cost of lost duties from fuel at today's rates plus 4 or 5 new powerstations plus charging network plus benefits payments for all the people out of work because of this......

 

Most people will charge at home and there are about 100,000 EV/Plug-ins and most have home chargers (7 kW-h) and then there is a similar number at work places, many places I go have charging bays for EVs, as a last resort you can use a 3-pin plug charging cable but that will only give you a 3 kW-h charge rate.

 

The public one should mostly be the Fast or Rapid charge points ie 22 or 44 kW-h so you will only need 20 minutes of charge to get you another 7 or 14 kW-h of charge which will take most EVs a few tens of miles to get back to your home charger and charge up at 2-3 pence per mile where the public charger could well cost 20p to 35p per kW-h so only used as a top off to get onward to your home or office charger were you will charge up for free or at the 2-3 p per mile.  One gets about 4 miles per kW-h.

 

  https://www.zap-map.com/engine/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/RapidChargeComparison-web.jpg 

 

 

Edited 26 July, 20178 yr by lol-lol

Toyota's solid state rapid charge plans

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1111717_2022-toyota-electric-car-to-use-solid-state-batteries-for-faster-fast-charging-report

Millions Park at the side of the road how will they charge?

Where is the electricity going to come from?

4 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 where the public charger could well cost 20p to 35p per kW-h 

 

You think it would stay like that - think of all the revenue that the Gov receives from Petrol and Diesel sales they'll have to recoup that and all the cost of installing chargers everywhere - not to mention the need for a way to generate all that electricity to charge the cars . 

 

This is assuming that battery technology is either very advanced or some other more efficient technology is used. 

 

6 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Most people will charge at home and there are about 100,000 EV/Plug-ins and most have home chargers (7 kW-h) and then there is a similar number at work places, many places I go have charging bays for EVs, as a last resort you can use a 3-pin plug charging cable but that will only give you a 3 kW-h charge rate.

 

The public one should mostly be the Fast or Rapid charge points ie 22 or 44 kW-h so you will only need 20 minutes of charge to get you another 7 or 14 kW-h of charge which will take most EVs a few tens of miles to get back to your home charger and charge up at 2-3 pence per mile where the public charger could well cost 20p to 35p per kW-h so only used as a top off to get onward to your home or office charger were you will charge up for free or at the 2-3 p per mile.  One gets about 4 miles per kW-h.

 

  https://www.zap-map.com/engine/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/RapidChargeComparison-web.jpg 

 

 

 

Pray tell me how this will work, or even be possible, for the millions that live in properties with no driveways and hence no easy, or guaranteed, vehicular access to the frontage of their property??

 

Are you expecting public chargers every single car length on residential streets in London for example?  If so you may be sadly disappointed.

As to Import duties (customs duties), the UK currently gives three-quarters of the customs duties it collects over to the EU and retains quarter for its admin.

 

Once the UK the UK has left the EU we will cease doing that plus, potentially, collect customs duties, but certainly import VAT, which some will reclaim,  on those half of goods that the UK currently gets from EU27.

 

Any since the EU goods would not be entitled to import reliefs that goods from poor countries get then I would say the UK could well collect about ten times more duties than it currently does on imports, plus their would be no Common Agricultural Policy refunds so massive new tax collection and savings to UK Gov. 

 

Consumer could well suffer big time unless things like VAT are halved or the like.   

 

 

good here innit      Government brings out plans/incentives to scrap petrol cars,some years later brings out plans to scrap petrol/ diesel for electrical/batt power whilst at the same time spending BILLIONS on electrification of the railways to move from diesel power ,half completed then changes mind to use diesel trains.and they wonder why we are in so much debt?

Edited 26 July, 20178 yr by Sad555

7 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Pray tell me how this will work, or even be possible, for the millions that live in properties with no driveways and hence no easy, or guaranteed, vehicular access to the frontage of their property??

 

Are you expecting public chargers every single car length on residential streets in London for example?  If so you may be sadly disappointed.

 

Lamp-posts have been put forward as one potential location for street side if the standard EV charge posts cannot be squeezed in.  

 

Having parking spots just for EV promotes EV.  If an ICE car parks in it then it is towed away and can be recovered after fine which is what is already happening.   

 

It is not easy as I gather from my company rolling out the EV Hire network as we do in Paris with the Auto-Lib system where we have about 5,000 EVs around as well as 6m and 12m buses.   London has 44 metropolitan authorities where as Paris is one authority.    

 

 

Edited 26 July, 20178 yr by lol-lol

Had an interesting discussion this weekend with the owner of a new Leaf…   he came to meet up with a group of friends in it and, whilst he loves it, was bemoaning the lack of range and the length of journeys he undertakes in it – to the extent that he nearly brought his very aged Saab instead.

 

He noted that the ‘theoretical’ range was about 130 miles on a full change but that realistically this was closer to 100 in daily driving.  However, because of ‘range anxiety’ and the distance between charging points on long distance routes and their propensity to be occupied or broken, he generally only travelled about 70 miles at a time (or one hour’s driving), before stopping for a coffee and an electric top-up.

 

He indicated that this was fine for his general commuting and bumbling about but was severely restricting in terms of other every-day use and longer distance travel, which became a ‘military operation’ (his words not mine).

 

It was an interesting discussion!

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

 

Lamp-posts have been put forward as one potential location for street side if the standard EV charge posts cannot be squeezed in.     

 

 

 

That must have been put forward by someone who doesn't know the foggiest about street lighting then - it's simply not feasible given the way street lights are wired and the electrical capacities involved and would involve mass replacement of street lights and underground supply network wiring..   it is therefore unviable.

My parking place is literally across the road from the house. Without doing a detailed count, I'm pretty certain that the road I live on has more cars and works vans than lamp posts, and indeed more "length of cars" than "length of property frontages".

 

One of my neighbours had a Leaf, and in order to get it charged, she had to park it half in front of my house, on a pavement.

3 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Had an interesting discussion this weekend with the owner of a new Leaf…    

It was an interesting discussion!

This matches with the experience of my neighbour and her Leaf, so much so that she's replaced it with a Vauxhall Moriva!

so if you live in a block of  flats in a conservation area with limited parking its going to be bit of a problem?

1 hour ago, skomaz said:

 

That must have been put forward by someone who doesn't know the foggiest about street lighting then - it's simply not feasible given the way street lights are wired and the electrical capacities involved and would involve mass replacement of street lights and underground supply network wiring..   it is therefore unviable.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/london-street-lamps-electric-car-charging-points-ubitricity-tech-firm-hounslow-council-richmond-a7809126.html

 

London street lamps are being turned into electric car charging points

 

Street lamps in the London boroughs of Richmond Upon Thames, Hounslow, and Westminster have already set up charging points.    A number of London’s street lamps are being adapted so they can also charge electric cars, making it easier for drivers to use the vehicles around the city.  German firm Ubitricity is working with a number of the capital's boroughs to install the streetlamps with energy efficient LEDs.   Owners of hybrid and electric cars can order a charging cable with an in-built electricity meter and will be able to charge their vehicles using lampposts in areas of Barnes, Hounslow, Twickenham, Kensington and Westminster.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/london-street-lamps-electric-car-charging-points-ubitricity-tech-firm-hounslow-council-richmond-a7809126.html

 

London street lamps are being turned into electric car charging points

 

Street lamps in the London boroughs of Richmond Upon Thames, Hounslow, and Westminster have already set up charging points.    A number of London’s street lamps are being adapted so they can also charge electric cars, making it easier for drivers to use the vehicles around the city.  German firm Ubitricity is working with a number of the capital's boroughs to install the streetlamps with energy efficient LEDs.   Owners of hybrid and electric cars can order a charging cable with an in-built electricity meter and will be able to charge their vehicles using lampposts in areas of Barnes, Hounslow, Twickenham, Kensington and Westminster.

 

 

 

 

That's a few street lighting columns in a few London Boroughs and is low power charging only - as I said converting large numbers of street lighting columns to cope with the proposed banning of EV's is unviable and would involve mass replacement of street lights and underground supply network wiring.

 

As an aside the example also conveniently avoids the issue of street lights being generally located at the back of the footway, against property boundaries (or even on property facades), and the associated issues (and liabilities) of cabling to vehicles laid across footways from said street lighting columns.  The legal profession will no doubt have a field day!

 

Keep the ideas coming though - I'm open to persuasion!

5 hours ago, skomaz said:

Had an interesting discussion this weekend with the owner of a new Leaf…   he came to meet up with a group of friends in it and, whilst he loves it, was bemoaning the lack of range and the length of journeys he undertakes in it – to the extent that he nearly brought his very aged Saab instead.

 He noted that the ‘theoretical’ range was about 130 miles on a full change but that realistically this was closer to 100 in daily driving.  However, because of ‘range anxiety’ and the distance between charging points on long distance routes and their propensity to be occupied or broken, he generally only travelled about 70 miles at a time (or one hour’s driving), before stopping for a coffee and an electric top-up.

 He indicated that this was fine for his general commuting and bumbling about but was severely restricting in terms of other every-day use and longer distance travel, which became a ‘military operation’ (his words not mine).

 It was an interesting discussion!

 

The Nissan Leaf, whilst having the distinction of being made in the UK, has not had a decent sized battery in it ie only a 24 or 30 kW-h unit.

 

The Renault Zoe ZE40, in either regular or fast charge version, and its 41 KW-h battery and consequently about a 185 mile range in summer realistically and 125 miles in the depths of winter, is more of a practical ranged car and if one can charge at work/visit then that takes in a lot of territory if one lives in the middle of the UK.  User experiences on the forums support these ranges as quite realistic.  Lots of methods to get the best ie pre-heat via the mobile app before driving, use A road instead of Motorway, which is what I do quite a lot of anyways as many of the motorways have so much speed restricted stretches.  

 

https://www.cdn.renault.com/content/dam/Renault/UK/brand-and-editorial/Brochures/Vehicles/zoe-brochure.pdf

Range (miles)

                                           Expression Nav R90(22kW-h)     Dynamique Nav R90 Z.E. 40 (41kW-h)    Signature Nav R90 Z.E. 40        Cost in Pence p/per mile†

NEDC*                                               149                                                             250                                                    250                                                2p

Summer                                            106                                                             186                                                    186                                                2p

Winter                                                  71                                                             124                                                    124                                                3p

 

Have a look at the driving range simulator on renault.co.uk/ZOE, which shows you how far ZOE could take you in your real life driving conditions! *What is the NEDC and why does real-life range differ so much from it? The NEDC is a method which can be used for comparing fuel consumption of different models and manufacturers, as the tests put vehicles under the same, ideal conditions. In real life many factors such as your driving style, the type of journey, your speed and the climate affect how far your ZOE will go. This is why we at Renault give you realistic summer and winter figures based on our testing of the vehicle, rather than just the theoretical driving range. **Why is the range reduced in winter? Like all batteries, those in Z.E. vehicles are less efficient in cold weather than at warmer ambient temperatures. This means that you can expect a reduction in the range of your Renault Z.E. in the winter. Also, in winter you are more likely to use the heating, which means ZOE consumes more energy.

   

 

38 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

The Nissan Leaf, whilst having the distinction of being made in the UK, has not had a decent sized battery in it ie only a 24 or 30 kW-h unit.

 

The Renault Zoe ZE40, in either regular or fast charge version, and its 41 KW-h battery and consequently about a 185 mile range in summer realistically and 125 miles in the depths of winter, is more of a practical ranged car and if one can charge at work/visit then that takes in a lot of territory if one lives in the middle of the UK.  User experiences on the forums support these ranges as quite realistic.  Lots of methods to get the best ie pre-heat via the mobile app before driving, use A road instead of Motorway, which is what I do quite a lot of anyways as many of the motorways have so much speed restricted stretches.  

 

https://www.cdn.renault.com/content/dam/Renault/UK/brand-and-editorial/Brochures/Vehicles/zoe-brochure.pdf

Range (miles)

                                           Expression Nav R90(22kW-h)     Dynamique Nav R90 Z.E. 40 (41kW-h)    Signature Nav R90 Z.E. 40        Cost in Pence p/per mile†

NEDC*                                               149                                                             250                                                    250                                                2p

Summer                                            106                                                             186                                                    186                                                2p

Winter                                                  71                                                             124                                                    124                                                3p

 

Have a look at the driving range simulator on renault.co.uk/ZOE, which shows you how far ZOE could take you in your real life driving conditions! *What is the NEDC and why does real-life range differ so much from it? The NEDC is a method which can be used for comparing fuel consumption of different models and manufacturers, as the tests put vehicles under the same, ideal conditions. In real life many factors such as your driving style, the type of journey, your speed and the climate affect how far your ZOE will go. This is why we at Renault give you realistic summer and winter figures based on our testing of the vehicle, rather than just the theoretical driving range. **Why is the range reduced in winter? Like all batteries, those in Z.E. vehicles are less efficient in cold weather than at warmer ambient temperatures. This means that you can expect a reduction in the range of your Renault Z.E. in the winter. Also, in winter you are more likely to use the heating, which means ZOE consumes more energy.

   

 

 

They did consider the Zoe but discounted - I think on size and potentially cost grounds.

 

They also don't live in the Midlands but near Bishop's Stortford.  After a long trip to Liverpool (220 odd miles) which could have been done in one hit in another vehicle, but took a long day and multiple stops, they have been seriously put off long trips in it...

1 hour ago, skomaz said:

 

They did consider the Zoe but discounted - I think on size and potentially cost grounds.

 

They also don't live in the Midlands but near Bishop's Stortford.  After a long trip to Liverpool (220 odd miles) which could have been done in one hit in another vehicle, but took a long day and multiple stops, they have been seriously put off long trips in it...

 

Odd because I thought the Zoe was a clear winner.......

 

 

I think things should carry on as they are and increase diesel productions,petrol too ,ok more people die a few months premature but with that and increased (and ever increasing) retirement age bit of a win win situation for the government plans on saving money on pensions for their people after working for 50/60 years of their lives,this could actually cut out pensions/pensioners for good. as we  are not directly involved in any big world wars at the moment we have the awkward situation of a large increase of the working classes even though everything is being done to reduce the efficiency of that NHS system that they seem to want to have,let's get back to the good old days and bring back fox hunting and kill off the cows for producing to much pollution into the atmosphere,give um cake not meat,anyway just let me have a bit more of my medication

For the industrial chemistry and materials nerds......ever expanding human knowledge -

 

 https://www.cemag.us/news/2017/08/semiconductor-can-beat-heat?et_cid=6042372&et_rid=916553762&type=cta&et_cid=6042372&et_rid=916553762&linkid=https%3a%2f%2fwww.cemag.us%2fnews%2f2017%2f08%2fsemiconductor-can-beat-heat%3fet_cid%3d6042372%26et_rid%3d%%subscriberid%%%26type%3dcta

Edited 2 August, 20178 yr by Ryeman