45 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

You can buy Zoe I versions, you'll own the battery outright. A Leaf youtuber is in the process of switching from old Leaf 24 to Zoe 40 said he purchased the Zoe with battery outright for 16k, that's a well good deal!

 

I've went to Renault dealer and asked whether it is possible to purchase the Zoe battery lease outright, Nissan offered something similar on their Flex lease battery. Typically for a 3 year old car it would cost ~£3000 to purchase outright. Unfortunately Renault prefer people to continue to pay extortionate amount.

 

This is not a problem for first time buyers already paying PCP/lease, simply part of monthly payment. But for second hand buyers the lease doesn't make any sense what so ever. Whole battery lease idea is stupid beyond comprehension.

When I looked on the Renault site the prices showed this:

The ZOE range

6 models to choose from

Prices after PiCG and exclude mandatory battery hire^

 

I take it from that statement that you have to hire the batteries.

Quote

Battery Hire Pricing - Monthly battery rental pricing, including VAT and assistance for all breakdowns.*

Annual Mileage	<4,500	6,000	7,500	9,000	10,500	Unlimited^
22kW	£49	£59	£69	£79	£89	N/A
Z.E. 40	£59	£69	£79	£89	£99	£110

My wife's motoring would put her in the <4500 annual mileage. on the 22kw version that's £49 a month. We put about £35 in fuel in the 1.2 TSI a month 

21 minutes ago, moley said:

When I looked on the Renault site the prices showed this:

The ZOE range

6 models to choose from

Prices after PiCG and exclude mandatory battery hire^

On Renualt's website, scroll to the right.

 

There are 3 Zoe models to choose from: Expression, Dynamique, Signature. Then there are 3 more models to choose from: i-Expression, i-Dynamique, i-Signature. The i range says "x features but you own the battery". They are £5000-6000 more expensive than battery rental versions. But the car's resale value should be much better than battery rental versions.

29 minutes ago, moley said:

When I looked on the Renault site the prices showed this:

The ZOE range

6 models to choose from

Prices after PiCG and exclude mandatory battery hire^

 

I take it from that statement that you have to hire the batteries.

My wife's motoring would put her in the <4500 annual mileage. on the 22kw version that's £49 a month. We put about £35 in fuel in the 1.2 TSI a month 

 

 

This is exactly it when I spoke to some neighbours who had looked at the Renault Zoe, the lease was more than the cost of their monthly petrol bill, I'm sure something could be done for low mileage users to encourage them into EV's.

Obviously if someone puts in £35 a month for petrol with a 1.2 TSI and they get 45 miles out of a gallon they are only doing about 

286 miles a month, or 3,432 miles a year.  Less if they get less MPG.

So seeing as they have a car why change?   

 

As is said in that Youtube i linked there are other costs than the £35 a month fuel.

Some might lease a EV Battery and buy a car and get Free Parking during the 10 miles they might do commuting or driving into a City, 

get Break Down cover, have no VED to pay, less annual servicing costs and maybe other savings.

Edited 5 February, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki

1 hour ago, lancpudn said:

 

 

This is exactly it when I spoke to some neighbours who had looked at the Renault Zoe, the lease was more than the cost of their monthly petrol bill, I'm sure something could be done for low mileage users to encourage them into EV's.

When I bought the Fabia for the Wife last year I looked at EV because the type of mileage she does. I thought an EV might be the answer, but no, not only was the vehicle more expensive than a petrol car the battery costs made it uneconomical.

31 minutes ago, moley said:

When I bought the Fabia for the Wife last year I looked at EV because the type of mileage she does. I thought an EV might be the answer, but no, not only was the vehicle more expensive than a petrol car the battery costs made it uneconomical.

 

The battery cost are high if you are doing less than 9k miles a year ie add like 10p a mile so even if you are getting your electricity for 2 or 3 p a mile it is not so cheap. 

I would go for the unlimited at only £110 a month and as I usual do 15k-20k miles per year split over 3 vehicles that could more like  6 or 7 p plus you have the insurance that they will replace the battery if it goes down to holding 75% charge. Plenty of piston engine cars that do not produce 75% of their original power when at 100k miles. 

 

Annual Mileage	<4,500	6,000	7,500	9,000	10,500	Unlimited^
22kW	£49	£59	£69	£79	£89	N/A
Z.E. 40	£59	£69	£79	£89	£99	£110

 

 

5 years %  (considering where inflation is likely to take us in 5 years time ie money will be worth something like 20% less !  

60 months
60 monthly payments of	£274
Renault deposit contribution	£1,750
Cash price	£18,170
Total amount of credit	£16,420
Total amount payable	£18,170
Duration	60 months
Fixed interest rate p.a	0%
	0% APR representative

 

Maybe plenty ICE engines do not produce 75% of their original power at 100,000 miles, 

 

but at 4,500 miles a year that will be only 45,000 miles covered in 10 years. 

 

Horses for coarses anyway.  Nobody is forcing anyone to go electric yet. 

1 minute ago, AwaoffSki said:

Maybe plenty ICE engines do not produce 75% of their original power at 100,000 miles, 

but at 4,500 miles a year that will be only 45,000 miles covered in 10 years. 

Horses for coarses anyway.  Nobody is forcing anyone to go electric yet. 

 

I would like to for moral reason and I tried to get one of the cars we make ie one of the Bordeaux, London, Paris, Turin cars but we only allow the rent in the metropolitan areas.  

 

Plus, oft forgotten, I, along with many high milers, get a fuel card so fuel is only 25 or 50 p a litre, depending on ones tax rate paid.

 

I would gladly give up my fuel card for an electricity allowance but at the moment I would need a Tesla to do my job so until the Tesla challengers come to market I have to use my sweet 3 cylinder, low NOX'ing, low PM'ing fizzing Renault TCE. 

 

  

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 I have to use my sweet 3 cylinder, low NOX'ing, low PM'ing fizzing Renault TCE. 

Quote

 0.9 litre H4Bt petrol engine, injects excess fuel to prevent overheating in real-world conditions, causing a high level of unburnt hydrocarbons, fine particles and carbon monoxide emissions. 

  

 

10 minutes ago, moley said:

 

Only when you are absolutely pushing  it and this is allowed under the emission regs.  I think it might occur at high ambient temps is 25, 30c plus and if you don't have the Eco button in operation which reduces boast to about half pressure and produces the 10 mGm/km diesels cannot get close too without extreme tech that make them uneconomical. 

London has a nice site for real world NOX ratings for cars to help considerate buyer choose in the right direction...

 

https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-and-air-quality/cleaning-londons-vehicles/newer-vehicle-checker?make=Skoda&model=Octavia&model_year_selective=2018&fuel_selective=All&transmission_selective=Automatic&body_style_selective=All&engine_size_litres_selective=All

 

Make	Model	Model year	Fuel	Transmission	Body style	Engine size	Power	NOx rating	Official CO2 emissions
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	1.5L	148BHP	A+	115 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.5L	148BHP	A+	114 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	1.4L	148BHP	A+	117 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	1.0L	113BHP	A+	108 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.5L	148BHP	A+	115 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	2.0L	227BHP	A+	149 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	2.0L	242BHP	A+	146 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.4L	148BHP	A+	114 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	2.0L	227BHP	A+	149 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.0L	113BHP	A+	108 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	1.5L	148BHP	A+	114 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	2.0L	242BHP	A+	146 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Diesel	Automatic	Hatchback	1.6L	113BHP	C	103 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Diesel	Automatic	Estate	2.0L	148BHP	C	119 g/km
Skoda	Octavia	2018	Diesel	Automatic	Estate	2.0L	181BHP	C	136 g/km

 

and Renault Autos (DSG/aka EDC)......

 

Make	Model	Model year	Fuel	Transmission	Body style	Engine size	Power	NOx rating	Official CO2 emissions
Renault	Clio	2013	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.6L	217BHP	A+	135 g/km
Renault	Clio	2013	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.6L	197BHP	A+	133 g/km
Renault	Clio	2013	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.2L	118BHP	A+	120 g/km
Renault	Twingo	2017	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	0.9L	89BHP	A+	108 g/km
Renault	Twingo	2014	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	0.9L	89BHP	A+	108 g/km
Renault	Captur	2017	Petrol	Automatic	SUV	1.2L	118BHP	A	127 g/km
Renault	Captur	2017	Petrol	Automatic	SUV	1.2L	118BHP	A	125 g/km
Renault	Captur	2013	Petrol	Automatic	SUV	1.2L	118BHP	A	127 g/km
Renault	Captur	2013	Petrol	Automatic	SUV	1.2L	118BHP	A	125 g/km
Renault	Kadjar	2015	Petrol	Automatic	SUV	1.2L	128BHP	C	123 g/km
Renault	Kadjar	2015	Petrol	Automatic	SUV	1.2L	128BHP	C	132 g/km
Renault	Megane	2016	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.2L	128BHP	C	125 g/km
Renault	Megane	2016	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	1.2L	128BHP	C	122 g/km
Renault	Megane	2016	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	1.2L	128BHP	C	125 g/km
Renault	Megane	2016	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.6L	202BHP	C	134 g/km
Renault	Megane	2016	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	1.6L	202BHP	C	134 g/km
Renault	Megane	2016	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.2L	128BHP	C	122 g/km
Renault	Megane	2015	Petrol	Automatic	Hatchback	1.2L	128BHP	C	129 g/km
Renault	Megane	2015	Petrol	Automatic	Estate	1.2L	128BHP	C	129 g/km
Renault	Kadjar	2015	Diesel	Automatic	SUV	1.6L	128BHP	E	130 g/km

 

Says loads (and why Euro 4 and 5s need to be removed from urban areas)   .................

 

 

So many DI, A+ NOx emitting cars to choose from but still needing GPF to deal with the particulate matter unfortunately .

I look forward to it’s introduction being mentioned in automotive literature such as brochures and road test journalism.

On 5/8/2016 at 12:19, Ryeman said:

There's no issue about supply in Victoria as a result of the rapid spread of PV feedin.....we've got more than enough with the endless march to ever lower consumption I would have thought.

One storage starts and the inevitable lowering of the storage battery costs the upgrading should naturally follow.......(?)

We have an ever decreasing consumption of auto lpg and I'm wondering if that current infrastructure can be converted to hydrogen storage at servos.

Either way the ever more complex reciprocating engine looks to be going up it's own exhaust pipe in search of cleaner emissions.

 

I notice that many diesel cars now do not even display any form of diesel lettering on the back of them such is the embarrassment.

 

Also accounts of buyers being persuaded to buy the diesel version by the salesman and the only just being told as they are leaving the showroom, or later, oh you have the SCR version and you will need to buy a 5/10 litre bottle of the watered down urea and keep it topped up and if you don't then car will not even start !

 

13 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

I notice that many diesel cars now do not even display any form of diesel lettering on the back of them such is the embarrassment.

 

Also accounts of buyers being persuaded to buy the diesel version by the salesman and the only just being told as they are leaving the showroom, or later, oh you have the SCR version and you will need to buy a 5/10 litre bottle of the watered down urea and keep it topped up and if you don't then car will not even start !

 

My aim is easy home maintenance which is exactly what dealerships fear most I suspect.

One look under the bonnet of the conventional cars should be enough to say  enough!

31 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

My aim is easy home maintenance which is exactly what dealerships fear most I suspect.    One look under the bonnet of the conventional cars should be enough to say  enough!

 

It is amazing how long we pursue paths for so long and the internal combustion engine,  Been over 150 years since Belgium/French Engineer Étienne Lenoir had the first successful iCE , (not Otto as many think).

 

I have worked a bit on the Wa*kel engine Sach/Norton and memories of the RX7 racer make me think we might have missed a better path but now it is has to be electric as shown by Tesla. 

Edited 5 February, 20188 yr by lol-lol

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

 

It is amazing how long we pursue paths for so long and the internal combustion engine,  Been over 150 years since Belgium/French Engineer Étienne Lenoir had the first successful iCE , (not Otto as many think).

 

I have worked a bit on the ****el engine Sach/Norton and memories of the RX7 racer make me think we might have missed a better path but now it is has to be electric as shown by Tesla. 

Plenty of articles about the inevitable decline of Elon Musk and Tesla in the financial papers and populist spruikers (CNBC etc).....but in the sense of a birthday wish I suspect.

(watch the ads and follow the money)

 

2 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Plenty of articles about the inevitable decline of Elon Musk and Tesla in the financial papers and populist spruikers (CNBC etc).....but in the sense of a birthday wish I suspect.

(watch the ads and follow the money)

 

 

UK could drop the 10% car duty on Tesla, just as it adds 10% to the European cars which could make the relative pricing interesting, especially for the more reasonable Model 3, when we eventually get it. 

More proof of the decreasing relevance of Trumpland -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/05/catl-china-battery-producer-ipo/

Even hybrid being penalised under the new WLTP measurement of CO2 etc........................

 

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-prius-tweaks-push-emissions-above-congestion-charge-exemption

Toyota Prius tweaks push emissions above Congestion Charge exemption

Increase in CO2 output to at least 78g/km pushes the Prius out of the exemption zone for London's Congestion Charge

 

The Toyota Prius will no longer be exempt from the London Congestion Charge zone, as tweaks to the range are set to push new versions above the 75g/km CO2 threshold for exemption.  New NEDC-equivalent emissions testing - a halfway house between the current NEDC procedure and new WLTP testing - has shown that the Prius range now has an official CO2 output of 78g/km for the 15in wheels version, up from 70g/km, while models equipped with 17in wheels have CO2 emissions of 82g/km, up from 76g/km. The range will be tested under the WLTP cycle in 2019; emissions are expected to rise above 90g/km under WLTP.    The Prius+ range also undergoes the same changes under NEDC-equivalent testing, with minimum CO2 output now at 106g/km, up from 96g/km. The Excel Plus model has now been discontinued “due to WLTP challenges”.   The changes to the Prius and Prius+ ranges, which came into effect on 1 February, are accompanied by a raft of tweaks to the exteriors, including revised badging and colour palates, as well as minor spec changes and technology upgrades. Toyota’s Safety Sense package is now standard. 

Edited 6 February, 20188 yr by lol-lol

It is going to be interesting just what the new testing shows on Diesel, Petrol, & Hybrids from many manufacturers once all are actually done under the new tests.

I can see many models currently on sale being withdrawn by next year.

 

Maybe more VW Group models available only from stock as production ceases on them. 

We know how the present UK government does not like to make decisions so having the new co2 and other emission measuring crucify a whole bunch of cars (diesels mostly) but also give they more revenue for company car tax and road tax will be manna from heaven ! 

As it is from April there are plenty of VW Group diesels that the first years VED is £200 now and is going up to £500. 

33 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

As it is from April there are plenty of VW Group diesels that the first years VED is £200 now and is going up to £500. 

 

 

Will the WLTP emission figures apply to new cars only or older cars?

I have no idea how it works, but those tested now are on the old system, 

and someone can maybe say when those Type Approved now have to be further approved for sale at some future time.

Re old cars, surely that’s down to the mayors of the major cities as to where they are permitted.

Dense urban area have problems with NOx and other noxious gasses plus particulates but not CO2 (greenhouse gas) I would have thought.   Are governments using CO2 as a default fuel consumption/emissions marker for convenience in legislating acceptable levels?.