22 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Plenty of articles about the inevitable decline of Elon Musk and Tesla in the financial papers and populist spruikers (CNBC etc).....but in the sense of a birthday wish I suspect.

(watch the ads and follow the money)

 

 

That Tesla has some acceleration.....

 

( 5 minute in you can see the Tesla they are carrying as test cargo)

 

 

Edited 6 February, 20188 yr by lol-lol

A map of the coming European (and US) recharge stations -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/06/map-ionity-ultra-fast-charging-network/

 

(not before time surely)

Moto-e 

 

Electric race bikes, 0-60 in 3 seconds, 155 mph etc...

 

 

 

 

And more on that -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/06/motogp-electric-motorcycle-racing-chapionship/

 

(I still can’t see a HD fan being impressed though)

 

Edited 7 February, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki

8 Gwh/month expansion -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/08/chargepoint-electric-car-charges/

Renault’s plans for adding to the infrastructure -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/09/ultra-fast-charging-network-europe-nissan-renault/

Recycling the B in BEV -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-07/what-could-happen-to-electric-vehicle-batteries/9398100

 

Edited 10 February, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki

I am disappointed with the actual range of the new Leaf 2 as it is being tested by the hack ie WhaCar's 108 miles from full to empty in cold weather, not with Eco running and by Nissan's own admission they are not saying it is much better than this.    https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/range-charging.html  

 

Zoe still the European EV champion for affordable full electric car one can buy.   

 

 

 

======================================================================================================================

 

DRIVING AROUND BRISTOL - LIVING AND WORKING ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF BRISTOL

Lydia loves her suburbian life.  She's knows the road between her house & her job near Bristol by heart & the New Nissan LEAF makes sure she has everything she needs to enjoy it come snow or shine.

REAL DRIVING RANGE ESTIMATION  :  -

 

(70 - DRIVING SPEED MPH,  OFF - ECO MODE,  20°C - SUMMER TEMPERATURE,  -5°C - WINTER TEMPERATURE)

 

 

Yep, the new Leaf is just a facelifted old Leaf. Not much they could have done on the aero. The old Leaf's range takes a nose dive as you approach 70mph, it's the same with the new Leaf.

 

Hyundai Ioniq and Tesla Model 3 are the cars to go for, efficient and long distance capable. Just wait for Hyundai to put in 50+kWh battery it should be able to do 200 miles on the motorway comfortably.

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Yep, the new Leaf is just a facelifted old Leaf. Not much they could have done on the aero. The old Leaf's range takes a nose dive as you approach 70mph, it's the same with the new Leaf.

Hyundai Ioniq and Tesla Model 3 are the cars to go for, efficient and long distance capable. Just wait for Hyundai to put in 50+kWh battery it should be able to do 200 miles on the motorway comfortably.

 

There are quite a few changes on the LEAF 2 from the LEAF 1 and the battery capacity is one of the biggest change with the battery capacity rising from the 24/30 kW-H to the 40 kW-H.

 

The Leaf two has been restyled and now looks much more mainstream but also includes the Pro-pilot autonomous driving system which is capable of driving itself on carriageways/motorways.  The e-pedal can be chosen to be engaged and that means normal decelerating is done by lifting off the accelerator using the regenerative braking and helps increase range.

 

The accelerations is cracking ie similarly quick to the Skoda VRS diesels, at 7.9s to 0-62 mph.  The Leaf 1 was just under 10s to 60.   

 

The initial reports of the Leaf 2 range are disappointing in my view ie only 108 to 160 miles is not what was hoped for ie more like 200 kms/125 miles in winter and 300 km/175 miles like the 41 kW-H Zoe. 

 

One of the good things about Electric vehicles is that it may well be able to be improved by software changes alone, as the Teslas have been, so just a re-flashing of the OS and one could get more range and even better acceleration, maybe to even rival a Petrol VRS, not bad for an affordable EV with energy running costs of about 5p a mile compared to diesel/petrol cars of 10p-15p or so ! 

 

  

 

 

 

Edited 10 February, 20188 yr by lol-lol

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

The initial reports of the Leaf 2 range are disappointing in my view ie only 108 to 160 miles is not what was hoped for ie more like 200 kms/125 miles in winter and 300 km/175 miles like the 41 kW-H Zoe. 

It's a bigger car, higher output motor (meaning higher current draw), but using the same battery. 108 miles is worst cast while driven by a journalist.

 

Highly unlikely traditional manufacturer will do OS updates without charging you an arm and leg. My Leaf is still on original 2014 maps and operating system.

 

Yes, there are many improvements from Leaf mk1, but it's still a very inefficient generation 1 EV with some added autonomy and slightly bigger battery. Similar to Chevy Bolt: boxy city car with a disproportionately big battery, range goes out of the window when trying to drive at higher speed. You can't really replace the family car with this. Ioniq and model 3 are much better cars to replace ICE cars, where people are used to expect good mileage at motorway speeds, not worse.

(My view as a gen1 EV driver who is looking for an EV to replace our ICE car for long distance driving)

I see an EV as a second country car or as principally a city car with weekend B road tripping and certainly not to compete in the motorway stakes.

It’s early days still and early adopters are going to pay the price if they constantly want the longest range new car.

7 hours ago, Ryeman said:

I see an EV as a second country car or as principally a city car with weekend B road tripping and certainly not to compete in the motorway stakes.

It’s early days still and early adopters are going to pay the price if they constantly want the longest range new car.

 

I would like to see EVs as cars that can do Motorways/A-Road commuting to work as that is what I do and then just use an ICE for those long weekend and holiday travels when I have to take more than just me in the car and maybe a load of luggage.  With a decent Motorway/A-Road charging network of fast (22 kW-H) and rapid (circa 45 kW-H and eventually 150s or even 300 kW-H) things become viable.  The WharCar EV test, LEAF2, VW E-Golf, Zoe, only showed just how bad the range could be if you drove like a numptie.  Why would you drive with the ECO button off with a cat that has good acceleration even with it in use?   The car lets the driver use full headlights even if it is bright and sunny and equipped with DLR lights !  Using the 17 inch wheels when the 16s are fine (to sell the car in the first place I presume).    

 

My company's model/paradigm (Auto-Lib, Bollore) is different of course ie to have EVs ready to rent when you need them and not sat on your drive/place of work/integrated transport location 95% of the time.   

 

The Zoe ZE40 remains the range king of the affordables, non Quick charger (ie 22 kW-H) version IMO but I just wish it had more conventional styling and an estate version (perhaps with 50 to 60 kW-H battery pack in it and that would be a real game changer.  

 

Hopefully the LEAF 2 with get some more favourable tests in the next few weeks as it was possibly a mistake to launch the car in February ie most consistently cold month in the Northern hemisphere and therefore showing the range at its worst.   

^^^^ the quoted US range is more conservative than elsewhere and if used as a one pedal car would already be close to sufficient for us.......and being retired we can generally avoid adverse weather too.

20 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

^^^^ the quoted US range is more conservative than elsewhere and if used as a one pedal car would already be close to sufficient for us.......and being retired we can generally avoid adverse weather too.

 

Indeed, I would expect that both the LEAF 2 and the Zoe would do 150 miles, 250 Kms with little bother with even a little bit of thought.  Warm the car up via the phone apps before going out to the car and disconnecting and perhaps battery conditioning, if low ambient temperature outside. We keep our (slightly different batteries ie we use Lithium Metal Polyamide rather than Lithium ion, which we make ourselves, as well as the Super-Capacitors) batteries at 50C plus to have a good amount of charge in them.  Sometimes our cars may only be on charge for a few minutes before the next person jumps in (Record for our Paris fleet of around 4,000 cars is 40 rents in one day !).

 

Zoe smartphone app may be better than the Nissan one (you think they might share more as they are join venture under single management control) and whilst you can warm the car up before popping our to drive it, and dis-connect from the mains.     https://media.nissan.eu/content/dam/YouPlus/nissanconnect/HowTo-NissanConnectEV/Quick_Start_Guide_GB_en.pdf 

 

More powerful due at Geneva.......

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/107bhp-renault-zoe-r110-due-reveal-geneva-motor-show 

107bhp Renault Zoe R110 due for reveal at Geneva motor show

More powerful version of Z.E. 40 model will offer better performance

 

Renault will launch a new version of its Zoe electric hatchback with 107bhp at the Geneva motor show this March.    A source told Autocar that the Zoe R110, as it will be called, would supersede the current R90 with 16bhp more from its Z.E. 40 battery-powered electric motor, although the car’s focus would remain the same and so it won't have a sportier guise than the regular version.    The R110 will be available in both Dynamique Nav and Signature Nav trims, but not the entry-level Expression, unlike the current R90 variant that is offered with all three. This means the R110 will get 16in wheels, a hands-free keycard and automatic headlights and wipers as standard.

456bhp Renault Zoe e-sport driven flat-out on track

Edited 11 February, 20188 yr by lol-lol

EPA range rating is the most accurate rating for EV at the moment. Then, I'd take 60% of the US EPA range rating as reasonable distance capable between motorway hops. This is due to higher speed inefficiency + only able to use 10-80% of the battery when long distance driving and rapid charging.

Eg. my 2014 Leaf is rated to do 84 miles by EPA when charged to 100%.  It can comfortably do 50 miles between rapid charging stops at 60mph (but a lot less driven at 70mph due to its horrible aero drag). I find my car can still do EPA rated 80+ miles when driven sensibly.

A Hyundai Ioniq BEV is EPA rated at 124 miles, people are reporting similar range in their experience. So it would be able to comfortably drive 74 miles between rapid charging stops.

This is why I keep saying 200 miles EV with good aero will be able to replace ICE cars. Tesla Model 3 or 50kWh Ioniq. To achieve 200 miles range in Leaf 2 will need 60 kWh.

 

Renault Zoe is an odd ball. It doesn't have DC rapid charging capability: it's purely a city car. The Q90 has 43kW AC charging capability. But the R variants can only charge at 22kW. That's too slow for any long distance driving, it would take over 1 hour to get back to 80% charge. Renault need to introduce CCS into their vehicles.

 

There's no question CCS is the future standard for European EV. The Chademo port used by far East companies only enjoyed a head-start thanks to Nissan. But more and more CCS are being installed, with 100kW CCS-only stalls planned.

 

 

 

I saw some news on the taxi company that uses Nissan Leaf as their car: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/environment/2017/05/19/no-return-to-diesel-for-all-ev-taxi-firm-with-dozen-leafs-on-its-books

Mark Richards, C&C transport manager, was impressed that the Leaf retained 70% of its battery capacity after 174,000 miles and said that other than the maximum range, the performance of the vehicle is just as good as the day it was bought.

 

C&C buys its EVs outright, a strategy Richards feels is justified by the fact that on average, “they become cost-neutral after two years and four months of ownership on fuel savings alone”.

Wizzy had no breakdowns during its high-mileage four-year working life. Outside of scheduled annual services, the Leaf went through three sets of wipers, two sets of brake pads for the front and rear and one damper, as well as tyre replacements when necessary.

Richards said: “With an equivalent diesel taxi doing that sort of mileage you’d be looking at things like replacing a clutch and that sort of work can see the car out of the business for three days.

 

Drivers now prefer EVs, as they feel less fatigued after a day of driving due to the stress-free “silky smooth” nature of how they drive.

9 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

EPA range rating is the most accurate rating for EV at the moment. Then, I'd take 60% of the US EPA range rating as reasonable distance capable between motorway hops. This is due to higher speed inefficiency + only able to use 10-80% of the battery when long distance driving and rapid charging.

Eg. my 2014 Leaf is rated to do 84 miles by EPA when charged to 100%.  It can comfortably do 50 miles between rapid charging stops at 60mph (but a lot less driven at 70mph due to its horrible aero drag). I find my car can still do EPA rated 80+ miles when driven sensibly.

A Hyundai Ioniq BEV is EPA rated at 124 miles, people are reporting similar range in their experience. So it would be able to comfortably drive 74 miles between rapid charging stops.

This is why I keep saying 200 miles EV with good aero will be able to replace ICE cars. Tesla Model 3 or 50kWh Ioniq. To achieve 200 miles range in Leaf 2 will need 60 kWh.

 

Renault Zoe is an odd ball. It doesn't have DC rapid charging capability: it's purely a city car. The Q90 has 43kW AC charging capability. But the R variants can only charge at 22kW. That's too slow for any long distance driving, it would take over 1 hour to get back to 80% charge. Renault need to introduce CCS into their vehicles.

 

There's no question CCS is the future standard for European EV. The Chademo port used by far East companies only enjoyed a head-start thanks to Nissan. But more and more CCS are being installed, with 100kW CCS-only stalls planned.

 

 

 

I saw some news on the taxi company that uses Nissan Leaf as their car: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/environment/2017/05/19/no-return-to-diesel-for-all-ev-taxi-firm-with-dozen-leafs-on-its-books

 

Looks like CCS might be on the cards for the Zoe update this year. https://insideevs.com/renault-zoe-r110-with-82-kw-motor-ccs-combo-charging-hinted-for-summer-2018/

 

Yes the Zoe is due to get the other charging system in the 2019 model I gather.

 

Because the Zoe is smaller, has a 41 kW-H battery capacity, it seems to be beating the new Leaf 2 on range by about 15-20% according to Whatcar and that is with mixed driving.

 

I was baiting a Zoe on the motorway, a ZE40, and he/she was pushing it too an indicated 135-140 kph and my speedo is only about 35 over-reading.  According to the Renault France website, and their range app seems to be fair in other areas, the high speeds ie 130 kph, well illegal in the UK but not in France, would still allow the Zoe to do a hundred miles in all but cold conditions.

 

Yes Renault fans want a less funky look like the Leaf 1 changed to the Leaf 2, an estate maybe to take another 10 or 20 kW-H of batteries.

 

I do not think the Zoe Quick version is so great as it reduces the range by about 8% over the non-quick charge, adds a grand in cost and I would be very happy just to use a 22 kW-H charger if I stop for 20 minutes, coffee and comfort break or 40 minute food break.   My work only has 3 kW-H chargers at Heathrow and I am trying to get them to upgrade to 7 kW-H as I can leave a Zoe on charge during the working day and come out to a fully charged car to get me back the 200 kms to Worcester on problem (except in very cold conditions where it would be a bit close to call), plenty of non-motorway shortcuts to save 5 or 10 miles and get back with kW-H to spare.

Porsche selling benefit of EV:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/technology/porsche-emobility-electrified-vehicles-powertrain-electric-motors-acceleration-performance-power-charging-parks-ccs-standard-range-mission-e-14839.html

Switch on and enjoy the silence – undoubtedly one of the attractions of electric powertrains. Manufacturers must do more, however, in particular those whose customers have become accustomed – after decades of combustion engine optimisation – to demanding the best. Their electric powertrains must guarantee the highest possible driving performance over long periods of time. Any manufacturer that masters this challenge will create a long-lasting buzz among customers – thanks to the strengths of the electric powertrain.

In principle, the electric powertrain has one huge advantage in terms of driving dynamics: Since its power can potentially be delivered immediately thanks to force-locking, the torque can be transferred to the wheels with only a short delay. This means that even small cars or compact vehicles can produce more powerful acceleration than their conventionally powered siblings

 

One of the reasons why the combustion engine won out against the electric powertrain at the start of last century was because the fuel was readily available everywhere, as well as being lightweight and easy to use. One tank of fuel also gets you a long way. Thanks to new technical solutions, however, these advantages will no longer remain the exclusive preserve of diesel and petrol engines – they will also be enjoyed by owners of e-vehicles. Future technologies may also mean that drivers can recharge their vehicles on the go without even noticing.

Buy your Renault at the shop -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/14/renault-launching-electric-car-store/

 

Porsche tactics -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/14/porsche-sell-electric-transformation-to-motorhead-fans/

 

China’s incentives -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/14/china-updates-electric-vehicle-incentives-longer-range-cars/

58 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

China’s incentives -

https://electrek.co/2018/02/14/china-updates-electric-vehicle-incentives-longer-range-cars/

This is how incentives should work!  Although with 1 modification:

 

Absolute range is meaningless when you can't charge quickly or the range is unachievable at motorway speeds. We are currently in a battery-size war, similar to the meaningless megapixel war for DSLR. 

 

In order to promote EV and give people a good idea how it will replace their ICE car, manufacturers should strive to make the most efficient EV at motorway speed. EV driving in town is already achieved by 1st gen vehicles with moderate battery. Next generation EV need to tackle real world long distance road trips.

 

So for all EV on the market, there could be a single figure: time to do 600miles/1000km. Not many people will drive further than this in one day, so with this time figure, people can easily see all critical features of potential EV that they may not aware when coming from ICE. This figure will combine EV range, charging speed and high speed efficiency.

 

The time figure is calculated by measuring distance driving at 75mph/120kph 100% to 10% and from 80% to 10%. Also need to measure repeated charging time from 10% to 80%. Then just add the numbers up to calculate how long it would take to travel that distance. For consistency, assume always stop at 10% and immediately able to start charging.

 

For example, Leaf 2 40kWh seems to have charging speed problems: https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/ This is on top of not improved motorway efficiency.

Whereas Hyundai Ioniq even with only 28kWh can achieve almost similar range on motorway as 40kWh Leaf. Ioniq can charge at close to 100kW. So the 40kWh is really quite meaningless.

I expect current best time is achieved by Tesla Model 3 long-range. Combining Supercharging speed with really good motorway efficacy and battery thermo management.

e-Sprinter -

https://www.goauto.com.au/future-models/mercedes-benz/sprinter/e/mercedes-benz-vans-goes-green-with-esprinter/2018-02-08/69482.html