The EPA bureaucracy is dragging it’s heals for the mid-terms which should result in a standoff as far as further destructive action is concerned.  The Feds are closing in on him and republicans are already considering another 2020 challenge to Trump.

The world’s largest oil producer is now America.

Nothing is what it was.

Is that North America while Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world.

Maybe Venezuela will not have so many starving sometime in the future when the World Super powers need their oil and pay the right price for it. 

 

7 minutes ago, Offski said:

Is that North America while Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world.

Maybe Venezuela will not have so many starving sometime in the future when the World Super powers need their oil and pay the right price for it. 

 

Hmmm -  do I now have to look it up George?.    I’ll see what I can do.

 

”likely “ sooner than previously predicted -

https://globalnews.ca/news/4444989/u-s-biggest-oil-production-world/

Edited 13 September, 20187 yr by Ryeman

10 hours ago, Kandy said:

Meanwhile in the real world,

 

New renewable installations (solar/wind) are not even covering the increasing global primary energy demand, scraping 4%, and already making electricity prohibitively expensive

Source for those two claims?

 

Wind, biomass and solar per kWh prices are consistently cheaper than nuclear, coal and older natural gas plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#United_Kingdom

Our experience is that renewables are so economically effective that they are putting the skids under conventional power economics.

If we can overcome the need to sack any PM who shows he has a spine in standing up to vested interests, anything is possible.

Bombardier’s battery power train for Germany -

https://electrek.co/2018/09/14/bombardier-battery-powered-train/

An environmentally friendly pig ugly BMW -

https://electrek.co/2018/09/15/bmw-inext-electric-crossover-concept/

.......and again -

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180915/ANE/180919757/bmws-vision-inext-previews-ev-flagship?cciid=email-ane-daily

9 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

.......and again -

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180915/ANE/180919757/bmws-vision-inext-previews-ev-flagship?cciid=email-ane-daily

No one will buy that, possibly the ugliest car I've seen since the Edsel! I know they tone down concept cars for the market, but SHEEESH!

2 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

No one will buy that, possibly the ugliest car I've seen since the Edsel! I know they tone down concept cars for the market, but SHEEESH!

More about grabbing attention, I suspect .

Edited 17 September, 20187 yr by Ryeman

wyx087:  wrt to Kandy's comment, I've seen similar based on the IEA (International Energy Agency) report, saying that wind & solar supply 3.4% of global primary energy. Unfortunately the report is behind a $120 paywall so is not accessible to check.

Another widely-quoted source is the BP energy report which puts the figure at 3% (probably rounded). It's accessible here:

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/energy-economics/statistical-review-of-world-energy.html

On the broader issue of electricity costs from different sources, the acid test would be to remove the subsidies and see what gets built. Are there any "free market" wind or solar farms in the UK? Or anywhere else?

A week or so ago the Walney wind farm off Cumbria was formally opened by Claire Perry. It has a "strike price" of £166.59 per MWh which is index-linked and guaranteed for 15 years. That is close to four times the current average market price and will be paid by UK consumers in their bills.

Returning to the thread, there is one aspect of electric vehicles which I have not seen covered (apologies if it has been - it's a monster thread and I have not read back very far). The largest component in the cost of motoring is depreciation. How do EVs compare to IC vehicles? I have the impression that Teslas hold their value pretty well but what about the bread & butter end of the market?

They are depreciation disasters for Dealerships with Demonstrators or those buying new and not keeping them any amount of time / miles,

but for those leasing a car or van that hardly matters 

and for those buying used 'Much Cheapness' is available.

8 minutes ago, Offski said:

and for those buying used 'Much Cheapness' is available.

 

Make sure they throw in a very long extension lead in any deal.

 

Any reason for that?, what is wrong with the ones that comes with vehicles?

Free Charging plenty of places now, or low cost.

9 hours ago, MikeHig said:

wyx087:  wrt to Kandy's comment, I've seen similar based on the IEA (International Energy Agency) report, saying that wind & solar supply 3.4% of global primary energy. Unfortunately the report is behind a $120 paywall so is not accessible to check.

Another widely-quoted source is the BP energy report which puts the figure at 3% (probably rounded). It's accessible here:

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/energy-economics/statistical-review-of-world-energy.html

 

On the broader issue of electricity costs from different sources, the acid test would be to remove the subsidies and see what gets built. Are there any "free market" wind or solar farms in the UK? Or anywhere else?

A week or so ago the Walney wind farm off Cumbria was formally opened by Claire Perry. It has a "strike price" of £166.59 per MWh which is index-linked and guaranteed for 15 years. That is close to four times the current average market price and will be paid by UK consumers in their bills.

Returning to the thread, there is one aspect of electric vehicles which I have not seen covered (apologies if it has been - it's a monster thread and I have not read back very far). The largest component in the cost of motoring is depreciation. How do EVs compare to IC vehicles? I have the impression that Teslas hold their value pretty well but what about the bread & butter end of the market?

Thanks for the link. This is global energy usage, which is not really representative of what we are actually using. Also, the IEA seems to been heavily criticised on multiple occasions regarding their views on renewables: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Energy_Agency#Critics I needn't to say motives behind British multinational oil and gas company.

 

This book gives a really good account of past events, how a handful of scientists and businesses generated doubt and debate regarding clear scientific conclusions. How mass media only circulated the debate and repeated cases where only the scientific journals published the peer reviewed truth.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Merchants-Doubt-Handful-Scientists-Obscured/dp/1408824833

 

The "acid test" for renewables may sound reasonable, but same can be said regarding polluting sources (coal, oil and gas power plants). If there were a global pollution tax (to support afforestation and other reversing measures), can non-renewables afford to continue to operate? Why isn't there any pollution tax? Why do non-renewables get this stealth subsidy?

 

Regarding depreciation, I've found they hold their value really really well. My '64 reg Nissan Leaf 24kWh Tekna trim was purchased at 2.8 yr old, 18k odometer for £9100 (including everything: PCP interests, final payment and value of my trade-in), the purchase also included free home charger install (main dealer offer). Looking on autotrader, cheapest 24kWh Tekna is asking £8000 but it is '13 reg and done 80k miles. Main dealer battery owned are asking £10k or more.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price-asc&radius=1500&postcode=al21bx&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&make=NISSAN&model=LEAF&aggregatedTrim=Tekna&year-from=2013&year-to=2015

 

I've zero doubt in 2 years time, when I have to pay the balloon payment of £4000, I can easily sell my Leaf for more than that amount. Combined with £20 per month fuel cost to drive 800 miles pm, and its instant pedal response, it's the best car purchase I've ever made.

Asking prices are not what Dealers might get as they have cars not selling waiting for the 2nd buyer.

 

So the Depreciation is what the person paid and then what gets if they sell.  Not what you pay to buy it used if at a dealers.

 

?

So what was the cost of the car you bought new, and if you bought it privately then that is the depreciation that owner had.

Then now you have it if you are the 2nd owner how much can you sell it for now or in the future with 2 previous registered keepers.

 

Cost of the car when new? Not sure, probably £16000. Many people take RRP before grant rather than after grant, that's 20+% apparent depreciation.

Sticker price of the car I bought: £10400. Main dealer, gave £2000 deposit contribution, with 1 year Nissan warranty, 2 years free servicing and free home charger install

How much can I sell it for? I'd say around £9000 selling privately right now, considering similar condition cars are still asking over £10k at main dealers, no deposit contribution anymore and interest rate has gone up.

 

There appears to be high demand for cheap EV as people, like me last year, realised it's the perfect secondary car for short local runabout.

 

Battery is the perfect saviour for ICE normally forced to do the dirty short town trips.

A new Nissan Leaf Tenka 24Wh at some point for £16,000 cash money with a Government Grant of £5,000, that was Bloody Cheap. 

What year of car is that?

 

Nissan Leaf 30kWh Tekna (2016) review _ CAR Magazine.mhtml

Edited 18 September, 20187 yr by Offski

17 minutes ago, Offski said:

A new Nissan Leaf Tenka 24Wh at some point for £16,000 cash money with a Government Grant of £5,000, that was Bloody Cheap. 

What year of car is that?

 

Nissan Leaf 30kWh Tekna (2016) review _ CAR Magazine.mhtml

It was an guess. Quite possible to have dealer heavily discount the car and plus gov grant. Back then, EV demand, particularly Leaf, was not very high compared to Sunderland supply capacity.

 

Kia Soul 30kWh had £199 pm lease offer on a few months ago to clear stock.

Nissan Leaf 24kWh was only £150 pm back in 2015.

Plenty new & used Blue & White also Yellow Soul EV around with dealers trying hard to get shot of them.

I was after a used Grey one, so borrowed one and the realised it was just not going to be any damn use if i did need to actually head off anyplace any distance with one of those.

Edited 18 September, 20187 yr by Offski

I wouldn’t expect existing dealerships to be proactive in the selling of EVs if only because it will threaten their sophisticated servicing requirements for ICE cars which, out here at least, is what keeps them solvent.  There’s B all margin in the sale of them.

The VW wave  -

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180917/COPY/309179948/vw-group-plans-10-million-evs-in-first-wave?cciid=email-ane-daily

This is the last thing dealerships want -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1118838_electric-car-sharing-programs-expanding-in-u-s

On 17/09/2018 at 11:27, Ryeman said:

.......and again -

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180915/ANE/180919757/bmws-vision-inext-previews-ev-flagship?cciid=email-ane-daily

 

That pile of gack makes the new lada look positively handsome!