wyx087, 

 Cars available to do the route are still useless when chargers are maybe not available to get charged at not just before you have no range left, because occupied, or other people waiting to use them etc.

and everyone heading places are not wanting to have to head to a charging place as the start of their going places.

 

It is horses for courses, and location location location and once you have sat in a blizzard for several hours and maybe several times in just a journey Perth to Inverness or the other way you will get the idea where suitable transport with range and ability to keep occupants warm / alive matters.

Edited 12 July, 20187 yr by Offski

1 minute ago, Offski said:

once you have sat in a blizzard for several hours and maybe several times in just a journey Perth to Inverness or the other way you will get the idea where suitable transport with range and ability to keep occupants warm / alive matters.

Excellent point...

 

PHEVs?

Edited 12 July, 20187 yr by SWBoy

I dream of a winter blizzard, but we tend to get dry sunny winters increasingly these days.  Our farmers need the rain.

PHEV means probably even more in servicing costs........having 2 cars means one petrol and a BEV thanks.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

 

I've no problem slowly moving forward in traffic in my Leaf, but it's very painful (and not smooth) in the Octavia.

See, I'd think that's an issue with your driving unless you mean the average traffic speed is below 5mph.

2 hours ago, Offski said:

..... range and ability to keep occupants warm / alive matters.

You can still sit toasty warm (winter) / chilled (summer) in a charging EV  

 

Current PHEV are less than ideal. Apart from Outlander, none can rapid charges, all of those are a poor attempt at being nothing more than a regular hybrid with a slightly bigger battery. Primary method of traction is still fossil fuel.

 

Serial hybrid like Volt/Ampera, i3 REx are ideal. Primary method of traction is provided by the brilliant electric motor. The range extender is only there to cover for the lacklustre infrastructure. Space can be easily reclaimed without car chassis redesign when infrastructure catches up.

 

2 hours ago, Ryeman said:

PHEV means probably even more in servicing costs........having 2 cars means one petrol and a BEV thanks.

This is the same conclusion I've came to. 

 

When the 2 free service runs out, if we decide to keep our Leaf, I won't be servicing it ever again. DIY checks and DIY cabin filter replacement. Only £35 brake fluid change and tyres.  Skoda servicing should be pretty affordable also, any garage can do it, no need to bother the stealers.

 

TBH, If I could afford it, I would have gone with a single Tesla Model S. Even the very base spec 60 kWh is more than good enough for all my needs.

 

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

See, I'd think that's an issue with your driving unless you mean the average traffic speed is below 5mph.

0 to 10mph, working through 3 DSG gears, then brake (wasting energy) down to 0, engine stop, 2 seconds later engine start (vibration through cabin) again and move forward 50meters before having to brake again (wasted energy again). Repeat this for the last 2 miles to my house for 15min.

 

EV:

0 to 10mph, smooth, silent and feels effortless, then regen (not wasting energy) down to 0, 2 seconds later start gliding forward again and re-capture energy soon after. Repeat this for the last 2 miles to my house for 15min, but in silence and no vibration, in knowledge that most energy I spent is captured back when slowing down.

^^^ How toasty are you in your EV if you have gone 50 miles north from Perth with 60 or more miles to go & the snow gates are closed maybe 6 hours or more and others are running engines if they have fuel or getting fuel from cans in peoples boots etc?

 

At least those 'stuck' 16 hours on the Motorway in Central Scotland this winter could walk to the filling station... For munchies.

 

Edited 12 July, 20187 yr by Offski

29 minutes ago, Offski said:

^^^ How toasty are you in your EV if you have gone 50 miles north from Perth with 50 to go & the snow gates are closed maybe 6 hours and others are running engines if they have fuel 

or getting fuel from cans in peoples boots etc?

 

Stop pointing out the blindly obvious to us who live in the rural areas......................& as per usual the people behind all this push for EV are mainly city people who have no real idea how to implement these EV plans in the rural communities....

 

Another winter journey I do is 70-80 miles over the A939 in winter just as soon ass the snow gates are open to go ski-ing in Glenshee....& again loads of other people travel up & ski there also...so when you have over 50% of the cars EV or 100% as ICE is supposed to be replaced eventually...how many chargers do you fit in the carpark at Glenshee?...12?..24?...50??.....100??.....

 

I need to know that the EV car can do 150-160miles easy (with say 30miles spare) in winter with heavy electrical load on the car, so heated seats, stereo, heater on (free heat from ICE, but not from EV)....etc..etc....

 

I fill my ICE with Petrol & I know that when I push my car hard over that road I get 32mpg.......take it easy I get 42mpg......& I have about 50lts tank size...& the difference between hot & cold ambient temps as petrol hardly varies the mpg....so its easy to gauge the required amount of fuel to have before I leave Inverness say...

 

EV.....well switching the heating on..anything electrical will cost the battery.....unlike the ICE car which gets electricity almost free from the alternator (causing resistance to engine & consuming some mpg) & it gets free heat generated from the ICE to heat the cabin....

 

EV good for short town & unban conurbation trips but useless for rural communities or long trips in one go especially away from the main motorways...

 

Not many EV up here....the BMW dealership has an I8 parked outside the showroom...."static" display I think...hahah...

Edited 12 July, 20187 yr by fabdavrav

I think you obviously know that skiers and those going into the hills know what they need, well apart from the idiots that do not.

 

Different from those just travelling on main trunk roads between cities that are 100 miles apart or less that think the car they use maybe a EV normally and know the range of will do for a trip in Scotland.

 

There is no legislating for the stupid.

 

?

When did the area of Moray Firth Coast become the back of beyond?

I see more EV's in and around the A96 than you seem to.

Edited 12 July, 20187 yr by Offski

Toyota, Nissan, Honda should be offering  Pickups with maybe 100 mile range and towing ability and Farmers and others might just go for them if the Government Grants / tax breaks made them of an economic advantage.

They could run them off their electricity generated on their own land or near areas.  Just needs chargers on the farm or at the house.

 

This would be a success maybe as an EV.  In the UK anyway.

http://automobiles.honda.com/ridgeline 

 

 

Edited 12 July, 20187 yr by Offski

43 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

Stop pointing out the blindly obvious to us who live in the rural areas......................& as per usual the people behind all this push for EV are mainly city people who have no real idea how to implement these EV plans in the rural communities....

 

Another winter journey I do is 70-80 miles over the A939 in winter just as soon ass the snow gates are open to go ski-ing in Glenshee....& again loads of other people travel up & ski there also...so when you have over 50% of the cars EV or 100% as ICE is supposed to be replaced eventually...how many chargers do you fit in the carpark at Glenshee?...12?..24?...50??.....100??.....

 

I need to know that the EV car can do 150-160miles easy (with say 30miles spare) in winter with heavy electrical load on the car, so heated seats, stereo, heater on (free heat from ICE, but not from EV)....etc..etc....

 

I fill my ICE with Petrol & I know that when I push my car hard over that road I get 32mpg.......take it easy I get 42mpg......& I have about 50lts tank size...& the difference between hot & cold ambient temps as petrol hardly varies the mpg....so its easy to gauge the required amount of fuel to have before I leave Inverness say...

 

EV.....well switching the heating on..anything electrical will cost the battery.....unlike the ICE car which gets electricity almost free from the alternator (causing resistance to engine & consuming some mpg) & it gets free heat generated from the ICE to heat the cabin....

 

EV good for short town & unban conurbation trips but useless for rural communities or long trips in one go especially away from the main motorways...

 

Not many EV up here....the BMW dealership has an I8 parked outside the showroom...."static" display I think...hahah...

Offski may be pointing out the blindingly obvious, but our politicians in their headlong rush to go all electric are ignoring it. So the more times it is said the better.

@wyx087 - What is this "dsg" of which you speak? With a conventional 5-speed manual I'd be both feet off at 5mph in first controlled on the clutch.

5 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@wyx087 - What is this "dsg" of which you speak? With a conventional 5-speed manual I'd be both feet off at 5mph in first controlled on the clutch.

It might be a Sachs clutch.........

Even a logging truck -

https://electrek.co/2018/07/12/einride-t-log-all-electric-autonomous-logging-truck/

 

Or perhaps a double decker -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117674_la-gets-first-double-decker-electric-city-bus

Formulating policy requires correct interpretation of ALL the data -

https://reneweconomy.com.au/if-we-cherry-pick-data-use-discredited-projections-and-ignore-co2-then-evs-are-bad-33380/

On 02/07/2018 at 13:40, Odin1123 said:

Why is everyone discussing small e-cars like the Leaf when the most popular are now small, medium and large SUVs? KenO'Neil is right when the government realise the loss of tax revenue costs will go up.

My laptop computer has a Lithium Ion battery the same as most e-cars. It only has a life of 2 to 3 years and during that time the amount of charge it can take drops to about half, or its ability to release a full charge drops. 

We need better batteries (still in research), so they will be slow to market.

Why are electric cars more expensive than the combustion engine equivalent even with Gov subsidies? Electric motors cheaper, electronics no difference, body no difference, so it must be the batteries.

 

I must admit they are too expensive for mainstream yet, I wanted to go full BEV with either a Leaf or i3 but they were outside of my budget by a good way. I ended up getting a new Kia Niro hybrid which was within my budget, the PHEV Niro version would have been better but alas again out of my budget range.

I think the next time I come to change my car there should be a really good choice of BEV's with much better & cheaper battery technology.

 

The collaborations between German & Chinese BEV manufacturers and Chinese manufacturers like BYD seem to be putting out some very affordable BEV's like this BYD Yuan. €10000 for the compact crossover SUV.  https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.china-auto.news/post/byd-mit-kampfpreis/126&xid=17259,15700021,15700124,15700149,15700168,15700186,15700191,15700201,15700208

9 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Even a logging truck -

https://electrek.co/2018/07/12/einride-t-log-all-electric-autonomous-logging-truck/

 

 

 

That won't last 2 minutes as a logging truck......

 

Living in logging country, near several mills, & having been to several logging open air exhibitions with various championships, trucks etc. that vehicle is a total FAIL.....range is far too short, those retaining posts are to fancy & not adjustable, then there's no tyre pressure adjustment for soft road surface (no hoses to the tyres)....ground clearance is rubbish...those side panels will get ripped off.......its as if the designers have never even seen a real logging truck in action deep in a forest....

 

Again all style & no substance...typical from the EV lot...

 

EDIT:-

 

I don't see a rear connection point for the rear trailer as thats just a short fixed chassis & those always pull another trailer the same length...

 

Edited 13 July, 20187 yr by fabdavrav

23 minutes ago, lancpudn said:

 

I must admit they are too expensive for mainstream yet, I wanted to go full BEV with either a Leaf or i3 but they were outside of my budget by a good way. I ended up getting a new Kia Niro hybrid which was within my budget, the PHEV Niro version would have been better but alas again out of my budget range.

I think the next time I come to change my car there should be a really good choice of BEV's with much better & cheaper battery technology.

Which is why I posted earlier that IMHO hybrids or PHEVs are the best short term option with switching to EVs as the longer term goal once the cost, range and infrastructure issues are solved.

3 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

That won't last 2 minutes as a logging truck...

Agreed, for reasons stated. Also, why is the "headache rack" so over-styled, where are the "eyes" for tie chains (or straps), why only 2 sets of posts (besides trying to get down to an unloaded weight), what is the advantage of "remote control" in an industry sector where most vehicles either carry a crane with a timber grab or are loaded by the driver using a wheel or tracked loader...

 

So that's 9 practical objections found in as many minutes, and I'm being generous to the electric lobby in the time required to identify objections!

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

Agreed, for reasons stated. Also, why is the "headache rack" so over-styled, where are the "eyes" for tie chains (or straps), why only 2 sets of posts (besides trying to get down to an unloaded weight), what is the advantage of "remote control" in an industry sector where most vehicles either carry a crane with a timber grab or are loaded by the driver using a wheel or tracked loader...

 

So that's 9 practical objections found in as many minutes, and I'm being generous to the electric lobby in the time required to identify objections!

 

Exactly......totally flawed I just did a quick scan for the main design points...& that's before you have to add proper EU or UK regulatory sized lights on the rear...& I don't see any...

 

I'd like to see a fully autonomous trucks tackle some of the steep trails in the forests around the west coast....brings a new meaning to "driver error" when they have to tell the insurance company that it fell off the trail & down into a steep gorge......

 

PS where's the platform/mounting/space for the palfinger to pick the timber up with???..in most cases the road truck driver has to self load as the timber is stacked on the forest trails by the forwarder...which is just driving between the harvester & the forest rails...& does no loading for the road trucks...

So here is typical UK & EU timber lorry with a fixed front chassis & rear trailer. Quite abit different to the above EV heap of rubbish which can't do the job as not speced out for it.....I also wonder as they have not fitted with the required equipment is it because the additional weight of say the palfinger will totally ruin the battery range??....

 

 

Edited 13 July, 20187 yr by fabdavrav

Again on that EV logging truck....they claim 200km..124mile range on a single charge...so charge at base drive 62miles to pick logs up & drive back 62miles.......

 

Now up her the biggest mill is the old "Norboard" mill on the A96 near the airport.....& they get stuff delivered to them from the west coast etc....62miles out severely limits the forests you can get wood from....

 

Just in a few minuets I have totally ripped apart the total & utter technically incompetent design from that company...

It’s probably made for a specific job and meets those requirements.

Early days but ultimately inevitable and will evolve over time.

Early adopters will subsidise the rest.

It's always easy to criticise.

 

Criticise a new product for not appealing to a specific use-case outside of its intended market (or its contractual requirement) is like saying desktop computers are not portable enough, or complain that the Ford GT can't drive off-road. Akin to saying the smart phone has not enough battery life for week long camping trip.

 

No one is forcing your local logging company to use that concept logging truck. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. It's like no one is forcing anyone to forego ICE cars. The 2040 ban is on non-hybrid ICE cars. The likes of Outlander PHEV and Golf GTE are still likely to be sold, albeit newer version with more EV range. Fossil fuel will still be sold, you can choose to depend on them if your use-case require.

(I personally hope parallel hybrid like above two will also get the ban, but it'll be unlikely)

15 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

It’s probably made for a specific job and meets those requirements.

Early days but ultimately inevitable and will evolve over time.

Early adopters will subsidise the rest.

 

Go look at their computer video of it deep in a forest by a big stack of logs...& by magic the logs appear on the bunk of the truck with NO crane/loader is sight!!.....

 

what cloud cuckoo land do the designers live in??....

Edited 13 July, 20187 yr by fabdavrav

People are always working on developing the vehicles of the future, so eventually things come to pass.

They get into production if they work and make economic sense. 

 GPS controlled electric vehicles are working fields now doing research work,

they are really quite small but bigger versions are being trialled in Scotland and elsewhere.

 

 

 

The time will come when diesel or petrol / gas generators are not needed onboard to charge the power packs.

 

Edited 13 July, 20187 yr by Offski