EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 1

[TonyB1965]

Then strode forth Michael Gove who did announce:

"Given scaremongering by 38 Degrees and the Labour Party on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), your support would be very welcome in tomorrow's Backbench Business Committee debate.

I attach some background information and a myth-buster which colleagues may find useful; there is also a PRU [Parliamentary Research Unit] brief already published, and further briefing is available if you would like it.

Economic studies suggest a successful agreement between the EU and US could bring economic benefits of up to £10 billion annually to the UK – equivalent of almost £400 per household."

Well done, you found one of the exceptions I mentioned, how about the other 17, 410,741?

[trundlenut]

Well done, you found one of the exceptions I mentioned, how about the other 17, 410,741?

And all together now....

David Davis says:

"TTIP, the upcoming EU-US trade deal looks likely to exclude financial services, due to a tiff between American and French film makers, and American concerns about having to recognise .

Any UK-US trade deal would not omit one of the UK’s most important sectors."

And then:

"That means immediately seeking Free Trade Agreements with the biggest prospective markets as fast as possible. There is no reason why many of these cannot be achieved within two years. We can pick up the almost complete agreement between the EU and Canada, and if anything liberalise it. We can accelerate our component of the TTIP deal with the USA, and include financial services."

[trundlenut]

Well done, you found one of the exceptions I mentioned, how about the other 17, 410,741?

What did the Fox say?

Well...

"I can assure you the Government is committed to an NHS that is there for everyone who needs it, funded from general taxation and free at the point of use. TTIP will not affect how the NHS decides who is best to provide its services.

Negotiators from the United States and the European Union have confirmed that it will continue to be for EU member states to make decisions about whether and to what extent they involve the private sector in the provision of public services. The EU's chief negotiator on TTIP has stated that EU countries will continue to be free to decide how they run their public health systems. A letter from the EU trade Commissioner, Celia Malstrom, to the former UK Trade Minister, Lord Livingston, confirming this is published here:

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/july/tradoc_152665.pdf

Any investment provisions included in TTIP will strike the appropriate balance between protection for UK investors abroad, and ensuring the Government is not prevented from acting in the public interest in areas such as public health and the NHS.

This partnership would be the largest bilateral trade agreement in the world and would bring significant economic benefits in terms of jobs and growth, with the potential to deliver £10 billion to the UK economy each year."

[TonyB1965]

And all together now....

David Davis says:

"TTIP, the upcoming EU-US trade deal looks likely to exclude financial services, due to a tiff between American and French film makers, and American concerns about having to recognise .

Any UK-US trade deal would not omit one of the UK’s most important sectors."

And then:

"That means immediately seeking Free Trade Agreements with the biggest prospective markets as fast as possible. There is no reason why many of these cannot be achieved within two years. We can pick up the almost complete agreement between the EU and Canada, and if anything liberalise it. We can accelerate our component of the TTIP deal with the USA, and include financial services."

And? that's not TTIP, what's your point apart from repeating everything ad-infinitum?

[TonyB1965]

What did the Fox say?

Well...

"I can assure you the Government is committed to an NHS that is there for everyone who needs it, funded from general taxation and free at the point of use. TTIP will not affect how the NHS decides who is best to provide its services.

Negotiators from the United States and the European Union have confirmed that it will continue to be for EU member states to make decisions about whether and to what extent they involve the private sector in the provision of public services. The EU's chief negotiator on TTIP has stated that EU countries will continue to be free to decide how they run their public health systems. A letter from the EU trade Commissioner, Celia Malstrom, to the former UK Trade Minister, Lord Livingston, confirming this is published here:

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/july/tradoc_152665.pdf

Any investment provisions included in TTIP will strike the appropriate balance between protection for UK investors abroad, and ensuring the Government is not prevented from acting in the public interest in areas such as public health and the NHS.

This partnership would be the largest bilateral trade agreement in the world and would bring significant economic benefits in terms of jobs and growth, with the potential to deliver £10 billion to the UK economy each year."

I'm not sure if you're aware but we are leaving the EU so that means exactly....well....nothing.

[gadgetman]

I'm not sure if you're aware but we are leaving the EU so that means exactly....well....nothing.

Except TTIP is the model America is going to use for future trade deals with other countries. We've already been told it's the type of deal terms the US will only deal with.

So there's the bigger EU negotiating their TTIP version, and us who are less important to America.

[trundlenut]

I'm not sure if you're aware but we are leaving the EU so that means exactly....well....nothing.

But Brexiters are anti Ttip...

Unless you don't think that BoJo and Fox aren't important going forward?

[trundlenut]

And? that's not TTIP, what's your point apart from repeating everything ad-infinitum?

You could say it's not ttip, apart from the two mentions of ttip and specifically saying there is a need to accelerate our component of ttip after Brexit.

[TonyB1965]

But Brexiters are anti Ttip...

Unless you don't think that BoJo and Fox aren't important going forward?

We're leaving, TTIP is irrelevant, not sure what you're missing apart from all of it.

[trundlenut]

We're leaving, TTIP is irrelevant, not sure what you're missing apart from all of it.

That quote from Davis was post Brexit. Guess what he is looking for. Hint, it smells like ttip, looks like ttip and is,spelt ttip.

[TonyB1965]

That quote from Davis was post Brexit. Guess what he is looking for. Hint, it smells like ttip, looks like ttip and is,spelt ttip.

You support TTIP, which bit of that did you miss?

[trundlenut]

You support TTIP, which bit of that did you miss?

Nope, I think it would be a very bad idea. We don't want a free market corporate over government US style deal.

Unfortunately we now have a good number of right wing free marketeers in influential positions and lots of talk of new trade deals. Many of the Brexit mob have made some very scary statements (such as dismantle and privatise the NHS).

I voted remain and I'm pro EU but that doesn't mean I think that everything is going in the right direction with it.

The ironic think is we could end up with ttip, whilst the EU get a different less US centric deal.

Even if we try our hardest to realign our trade and exports it's going to take 10-20 years before we can realistically move a significant amount away from the EU. In that time we will be beholden to the EU yet will have given up our ability to influence them.

[TonyB1965]

Nope, I think it would be a very bad idea. We don't want a free market corporate over government US style deal.

Unfortunately we now have a good number of right wing free marketeers in influential positions and lots of talk of new trade deals. Many of the Brexit mob have made some very scary statements (such as dismantle and privatise the NHS).

I voted remain and I'm pro EU but that doesn't mean I think that everything is going in the right direction with it.

The ironic think is we could end up with ttip, whilst the EU get a different less US centric deal.

Even if we try our hardest to realign our trade and exports it's going to take 10-20 years before we can realistically move a significant amount away from the EU. In that time we will be beholden to the EU yet will have given up our ability to influence them.

If you voted Remain you voted for TTIP, it's a simple as that. I'm also loving all the Remain predictions considering you all never even saw Brexit coming lol.

[trundlenut]

If you voted Remain you voted for TTIP, it's a simple as that. I'm also loving all the Remain predictions considering you all never even saw Brexit coming lol.

You might need to do a spot of reading on that front. It looks even less likely now given that one of the leading proponents of the deal was the UK. Currently it's looking unlikely to go far before 2018.

Have you ever done any business development? If so have you done any in foreign countries. I have and it takes forever to get anything done, even when you have boots on the ground. Factor in having to do the trade deals in the first place and we're in this for the long haul.

[Ootohere]

If this thread is getting nowhere fast it is much like BREXIT then.

Article 50 obviously to be slapped on the table and sometime before the end of March 2017 (edit)  is taking the pith really.

 

Theresa should have done it yesterday,

walked in sat down and said, we are offski, you have 2 years now to sort out your sh.!t because we have had enough.

But obviously since the UK government still is clueless this could not happen.

Edited 21 October, 2016 by Offski

[swedishskoda]

If this thread is getting nowhere fast it is much like BREXIT then.

 

[Laurie61]

One of the big pluses for staying in the EU was, supposed to be, projection of power and allowing us to punch above our weight. If we joined forces we would be taken more seriously. Last night the UK tried to force the EU to apply sanctions on Russia for their actions in Syria, despite support from others the move was blocked by Italy and instead all that was sent was a strongly worded letter. I am sure Putin is quaking in his boots today. So much for a force multiplier. Another demonstration of the EU’s inability to function as well as its rhetoric would have you believe.

 

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2016/10/21/italy-blocks-european-sanctions-against-russia-over-aleppo     

[TonyB1965]

You might need to do a spot of reading on that front. It looks even less likely now given that one of the leading proponents of the deal was the UK. Currently it's looking unlikely to go far before 2018.

Have you ever done any business development? If so have you done any in foreign countries. I have and it takes forever to get anything done, even when you have boots on the ground. Factor in having to do the trade deals in the first place and we're in this for the long haul.

Yes, it appears even after 7 years that the EU still can't agree the CETA deal with Canada, I'm pretty sure we can do better than that, I mean it wouldn't be difficult would it, even tiny Iceland has trade deals with the big players, so I'm sure we'll be able to cope lol.

[Ootohere]

Not many of the other EU members are in the  Commonwealth of Nations.  

Being a member of the Commonwealth of Nations should maybe help in negotiations with the other 51 sovereign states.

Well if not then that is another waste of time having British Dependencies.

 

............

News reports on the Russian Fleet sailing through the North Sea and the English Channel to show off their Navy is odd,

after all that is the shipping channels so they come down the East or West of the UK.

An island nation after all and ships pass around the British Isles all the time.

(No open Borders in the UK other than with RoI and obviously where the UK Government can not organise a pee up in a brewery. 

[KenONeill]

Comments on reports I've heard about the Russians and the RN both "sabre" (surely cutlass?) rattling at each other.

[Ootohere]

The Royal Navy have very little to rattle in that case.

Maybe they can send google images of what the New Fleet will look like and links to Ebay on what they used to have.

[trundlenut]

Yes, it appears even after 7 years that the EU still can't agree the CETA deal with Canada, I'm pretty sure we can do better than that, I mean it wouldn't be difficult would it, even tiny Iceland has trade deals with the big players, so I'm sure we'll be able to cope lol.

We can probably do something quicker, and therein may lie the problem. Particularly if you want to avoid something like ttip.

[TonyB1965]

We can probably do something quicker, and therein may lie the problem. Particularly if you want to avoid something like ttip.

There is no "TTIP" for us, and any potential trade deals will involve Parliament, enough with the TTIP nonsense, we're leaving the EU. Oh and by the way, it looks like the EU might not be doing any Trade deals in the future...

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/10/21/eu-will-unable-trade-deals-canada-treaty-collapses-eu-president-says/

[trundlenut]

There is no "TTIP" for us, and any potential trade deals will involve Parliament, enough with the TTIP nonsense, we're leaving the EU. Oh and by the way, it looks like the EU might not be doing any Trade deals in the future...

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/10/21/eu-will-unable-trade-deals-canada-treaty-collapses-eu-president-says/

As gadgetman said ttip is the template for US trade deals, that will be the starting point.

If trump gets in we will get something very different. Probably we will be allowed to buy whatever we want from the US and that's it.

[trundlenut]

As gadgetman said ttip is the template for US trade deals, that will be the starting point.

If trump gets in we will get something very different. Probably we will be allowed to buy whatever we want from the US and that's it.

Not forgetting who the head of Breitbart is currently working for as well.