Winter tyres - TPMS

[BNT1985]

Hello all

 

After many years of driving a wreck I suddenly feel the urge to purchase a set of winter tyres for my Octavia; new car and I just feel that we are "due" for a hard winter.  

 

I have had a look around and Goodyear UltraGrips seem to be where I am headed (further advice welcome).  I would be having these supplied from mytyres.co.uk on 16" steel rims with the view of a straight swap for my alloys with summer tyres to the steel wheels with the winter tyres, all in this is going to set me back just shy of £500.  

 

This is the first car I have had with tyre pressure monitoring sensors, is it easy enough to swap the TPMS sensors to the new rims/ winter tyres or would it be less hassle to buy an additional set of TPMS specifically for the steel rims?  Or can you deactivate the TPMS so that it isn't going to annoy the hell out of me etc; I have no idea.

 

 

The winter tyres I understand, the TPMS I am struggling with as not a huge car guy; many thanks for advice given

[philbes]

There are no TPMS sensors. The system uses the same sensors as the ABS. Rate of wheel rotation is measured and if one tyre is out of sync with the others (rotating faster) it is assumed that the reduced rolling diameter is due to a loss of air. After swapping to your winter tyres/wheels just ensure the pressures are correct and then use the procedure with the TPMS reset button to set the system. An increase in pressure of 3psi is usually recommended for winter tyres.

On what do you base your prediction of a hard winter this year?

Edited 15 October, 2016 by philbes

[john999boy]

On what do you base your prediction of a hard winter this year?

I think it made the headlines in the Express so it must be true!

[philbes]

I think it made the headlines in the Express so it must be true!

Why didn't you say so. Now I realise it simply must be going to happen. No doubt the Express gave the exact day for the first nationwide snow.

[NESskod]

I live in the North of Scotland,  we do get the occasional bit of now

 

Your question was my first post on here 3 years back, see here:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/289355-wheel-sizes-quite-technical/

 

I did exactly what you propose.   the TPMS is indeed indirect, just fit the steel ones, ensure the pressures are correct and hit the calibrate button in the touch screen under "settings"  and drive a bit to teach it the new tyre / wheel signature that's about it.   I bought a pair of £15 Halfords plastic wheel trims to keep the worst the road off the wheels.

 

One spring after changing back to the "summer tyres" i forgot to calibrate - the warning sounded after about 10 miles. 

 

Don't forget to check / tell your insurer (and get a record of who you spoke to) - even if you are going from alloy to steel you are reducing the value of the car and making it less attractive to thieves it's a good excuse for them to say "unauthorised modification" shoudl you need to claim.

 

My experience so far:

RAC Insurance - very difficult, wanted me to call / pay an admin fee each autumn/spring,  I moved my business elsewhere.

AXA - not an issue

[GainfulShrimp]

I made sure I saved a transcript of the pre-sales online chat I had with Direct Line recently - where they promised there would be no extra charges for fitting winter wheels and tyres - so that I can show it to them if/when they try to charge me anything for fitting my winter steelies.  Insurance companies are, in general, scumbags. They will use any and every excuse to charge their customers extra fees.

 

I've ordered these rather fetching generic aftermarket wheel trims for my 16" steel wheels, from fleabay (they come complete with Skoda logo stickers for the middle haha):

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-Skoda-Fabia-Roomster-Octavia-etc-Wheel-Trims-Covers-Hub-Caps-Quantity-4/252421845133

 

Anyway, I'm sure you won't be disappointed with Goodyear Ultragrip 9, they're excellent!

[Alpha2110]

Why not compromise and buy all seasons, there quiet and you will most likely get a better ride. In my opinion for most drivers winters are a monumental waste of money, if you use them for a few months a year you fall into the trap that the tyres have aged after several years and there not at there best even if they have lots of tread. Not to mention you have to keep them in the correct enviroment.

Also winters are not nessisaraly good in the wet, so there is an argument to say if there safer or not. To answer you question there is no sensors, its calculated from the rolling radius of the tyre, ie from the abs.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Alpha2110

[Gizmo]

Also winters are not nessisaraly good in the wet, so there is an argument to say if there safer or not. 

 

May I suggest you do a bit of homework before buying replacement tyres then,

my Nokian winter tyres are actually Class A for wet grip, which is better than the Class B for the summer tyres the car came fitted with from the factory.

 

Not all tyres are the same, you get good and bad, as for fitting all season tyres.... that is exactly what I would recommend if you have no room to store winter wheels / tyres, however if you do have the room fit the best you can.

[gullyg]

I've been using Goodyear Ultragrip 8s in edinburgh on 225/40/R18 wheels (vRS standard Gemini's) for the last 3 winters (since 2013) and they're excellent in snow/ice and I've not certainly noticed any issues on wet roads (I'm really not a gentle driver).

 

The only thing I'd say about them is you really notice the drop in performance at over about 10degC - but I've been told that's the norm for winter tyres. 

 

Just remember to reset the TPMS when you change your wheels over.

[Alpha2110]

May I suggest you do a bit of homework before buying replacement tyres then,

my Nokian winter tyres are actually Class A for wet grip, which is better than the Class B for the summer tyres the car came fitted with from the factory.

Not all tyres are the same, you get good and bad, as for fitting all season tyres.... that is exactly what I would recommend if you have no room to store winter wheels / tyres, however if you do have the room fit the best you can.

Note the not nessisaraly part, yes thay are tyres that are as good but not all, and the point im making is there are compromises like high temp performance. Not to mention all the other compromises, lateral grip?.

It comes down to to perceived risk and most of the time you drive to the road conditions and the limitations of the car. Most of last winter i can count on 1 hand freezing tempratures and for that matter even days that would warrent winter tyres.

There are cases where winters may be benefical, and the safest tyre. But for most people its a ton of money that you dont need to spend.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Alpha2110

[john999boy]

It comes down to to perceived risk and most of the time you drive to the road conditions and the limitations of the car. Most of last winter I can count on 1 hand freezing temperatures and for that matter even days that would warrant winter tyres.

 

I think that everyone would agree that driving 'to the road conditions' when you have winter tyres fitted is safer than when they aren't!

Also, as winter tyres start performing better than 'normal' ones at temperatures below 7°C, I find it hard to believe that there were less than 5 days when you had sub 7°C readings. :no:

[Alpha2110]

I think that everyone would agree that driving 'to the road conditions' when you have winter tyres fitted is safer than when they aren't!

Also, as winter tyres start performing better than 'normal' ones at temperatures below 7°C, I find it hard to believe that there were less than 5 days when you had sub 7°C readings. :no:

You compleatly miss the point, yes thay are safer but the point im trying to make is each indervidual needs to evaluate there need for winters and ask do i need them, will i be significantly reducing risk buy purchasing them. Also i did not say tempratures below 7 degrees on one hand, and to my knowlage 0 degrees is still freezing. What im spelling out is try not advocating winters as a miracle solution when there not

[flybynite]

It only takes an early morning frost on an untreated road and there can be carnage. Winters have stopped me adding to it more than once. It is quite noticeable when you can out-brake anything else on the road at the time.

 

As I'm one of the people that has stopped only yards from a dozen that didn't, I consider them a miracle and so did the front of my car at the time

 

In the UK a lot will depend on what time you are on the road, not everyone is on the road in the height of the day.

 

Continental winter contact TS830p have done me well for years. TS850 go back on one of the machines and there are a shiny new set of TS860s going on the Octy come November. They do pretty well in the wet too.

[Alpha2110]

It only takes an early morning frost on an untreated road and there can be carnage. Winters have stopped me adding to it more than once. It is quite noticeable when you can out-brake anything else on the road at the time.

As I'm one of the people that has stopped only yards from a dozen that didn't, I consider them a miracle and so did the front of my car at the time

In the UK a lot will depend on what time you are on the road, not everyone is on the road in the height of the day.

Continental winter contact TS830p have done me well for years. TS850 go back on one of the machines and there are a shiny new set of TS860s going on the Octy come November. They do pretty well in the wet too.

Yes i agree entirely what you say, this is one of the cases where they are justified, early mornings, country set, etc.

Ill give an example of what i am getting at. I worked in a uni for 10 years, one guy who lived in the country bought winters and commented how they were fantastic. The point is most of the people in the department many of them who drive in the city went and bought winters like it was a virus, with the idea that its a mirical solution most of them do 8k a year, this was mainy the irrational fear that there going to get stuck. My point is look at all options. At there 4k a year there winters would have tread for years but the tyre would fail an mot long before the tread wears out. My point was think are thay needed risk vs cost, and evaluate each indervidual case.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Alpha2110

[Ootohere]

Alpha2110,

0*oC is the freezing point of H20 but maybe check out your air temperatures and your ground temperatures (grass frost as the weather presenter calls it ) which can be a few degrees different, 

and the air temp can be 2 or 3 degrees higher than the road temp or the other way round and the road temp higher than the air temp.

 

It does not need to show a freezing air temp for there to be black ice on the roads.

http://trafficscotland.org/weatherstations

Not freezing temps as last week, but as you see the road sensors and weather stations at roadsides record the air temperature and the road temperatures.

(That was North East of the UK last week, not the North East of England.)

Saying that the A1 around Torness had an over 10 degree C difference just about within a 20 mile distance.

-1 to 11*oC,  

Then Grantown on Spey was at -2*oC or so and across on the west at Morar it was 12*oC the same morning. Air Temperature.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Offski

[Alpha2110]

0*oC is the freezing point of H20 but maybe check out your air temperatures and you ground temperatures (grass frost as the weather presenter calls it ) which can be a few degrees different, 

and the air temp can be 2 or 3 degrees higher than the road temp or the other way round and the road temp higher than the air temp.

 

It does not need to show a freezing air temp for there to be black ice on the roads.

Yes i agree, air temp is irrelevant, its ground temp. I wonder if the ground temp can be higher than air temp, thinkingthat it has masivaly higher thermal mass, i admit this is not my speciality and its more geophysics.

Dont get the impression i am totaly anti winter tyres, i did think of getting cross climates but the reviews seem to indicate they throw stones up, so it put me off.

[Ootohere]

Yes the ground temp can be higher than the air temp, as you will see if you use the Traffic Scotland link as the winter progresses.

Try Wednesday night this week.

 

Look for mist, fog, haar or frozen fog, that can be an indication of the ground temperature higher than the air temperature which is measured @ 1.5-2 meters above the ground.

 

Its not rocket science its just years of driving in winter and taking part in winter sports, 

or living north of Perth can be enough.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Offski

[BNT1985]

There are no TPMS sensors. The system uses the same sensors as the ABS. Rate of wheel rotation is measured and if one tyre is out of sync with the others (rotating faster) it is assumed that the reduced rolling diameter is due to a loss of air. After swapping to your winter tyres/wheels just ensure the pressures are correct and then use the procedure with the TPMS reset button to set the system. An increase in pressure of 3psi is usually recommended for winter tyres.

On what do you base your prediction of a hard winter this year?

 

Thanks

 

I am usually an early bird for work, up and out of the house at 0500-0600.  I live nearly on the top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere and have to navigate my way down a B road to the base of the mountain to hit "the main road" which itself is a lightly used, often untreated A road.  

In order to get to that A road I have to go down a quarter mile B road from my house with a 35-40% incline with a bend or two thrown in, at the bottom of that hill I have to do a 3 point turn, drive on the flat for 50 yards, do another 3 point turn and go down a another hill with a 40% incline, when I hit the bottom of that incline I have another hill to climb which itself has a 25-30% incline, I have a 2 mile drive then to get onto a much better road.  Getting home is the reverse.  

 

Work does allow me to leave if the snow continues to fall, however it wouldn't be the first time that I have had to abandon the car due to the roads being impassable and myself not wanting to burn the clutch out.  Abandoning the car has resulted in a 4 mile walk in -5C and snow; fortunately I always make sure I have winter a winter coat, trousers, boots, socks and a pair of gaiters in the boot for the walk home along with £30 in the boot as there is a pub on the way home that is a great place to stop off, after 5 pints and a rum or two the remaining walk flies by.  I don't live in Tibet, it's lovely and out of the way but a bit of snow on the ground really can throw a spanner in the works.

 

Previous cars were 1.2-1.3 Fiestas which were great in the snow even on summer tyres as the cars were so underpowered and relatively light and small framed they always got me home, the 1.8 Focus was OK, I had to abandon twice; more torque just kept the wheels spinning up and more weight in comparison to the Fiesta's...  The Octavia is a new car (for me 1year old is new; all previous car have been 6+years old at the time I bought them) I have already grown attached to and like the paintwork as it is; throw in it being a bigger, heavier car with a load more torque hence the investment in a set of proper tyres.

 

 

Plus I read in The Daily Express that it was going to be a harsh winter this year; highly believable given our last 3 years of BBQ summers as reported by The Daily Express 

 

 

Thanks for the replies everyone

Edited 20 October, 2016 by BNT1985

[GBHam]

Interesting discussion, here in Germany it is not law to have winter tyres, however if it is below 7 Deg and you have an accident the insurance make you partly responsible, also if you are unable to move off in snow / ice because you have summer tyres you get fined if you get caught. Like a few people here I have been thankful more than once that I had them fitted.

[BNT1985]

I am about to pull the trigger and buy a set of winter tyres, after looking into it I am set on a set of Goodyear Ultragrip 9's, 16" on steel rims.  

 

I have the Octavia 2.0TDi 110KW hatchback, vanilla with no modifications, I have looked through my vehicle handbook and the 205/55 R16 are fine for my car, I am going for the 91H which is below the vehicles "must be at least a 91V" but the caveat of "unless it's winter tyres and the speed does not exceed the tyres rated speed" - which is good as I don't plan on going in excess of 110mph with winter tyres fitted.    

 

link

 

What I am stuck on is the "offset"; I can get the wheels in either a 46 offset or a 48, I have no idea which one I should go for nor am I able to find any information as to any real world difference other than the 48 is better for snow chains?  

 

Can anyone in the know help me out please?

[Black_Sheep]

I am about to pull the trigger and buy a set of winter tyres, after looking into it I am set on a set of Goodyear Ultragrip 9's, 16" on steel rims.

I have the Octavia 2.0TDi 110KW hatchback, vanilla with no modifications, I have looked through my vehicle handbook and the 205/55 R16 are fine for my car, I am going for the 91H which is below the vehicles "must be at least a 91V" but the caveat of "unless it's winter tyres and the speed does not exceed the tyres rated speed" - which is good as I don't plan on going in excess of 110mph with winter tyres fitted.

link

What I am stuck on is the "offset"; I can get the wheels in either a 46 offset or a 48, I have no idea which one I should go for nor am I able to find any information as to any real world difference other than the 48 is better for snow chains?

Can anyone in the know help me out please?

On the link you supplied, the difference is the ET46 rims are 6.5" wide, whereas the ET48 rims are 6" wide.

ET offset describes how far the wheel is offset from the mating it's mating face - for rims with the same width, the lower the ET the further the wheel will be away from the shock, but closer to the arch. However, ET is a combination of both rim width and offset.

The 6"/ET48 combination is the Skoda approved size for snow chains using 205mm width tyre - however do you intend to use snow chains? If the answer is no, then both will fit fine.

[Gabbo]

Interesting discussion, here in Germany it is not law to have winter tyres, however if it is below 7 Deg and you have an accident the insurance make you partly responsible, also if you are unable to move off in snow / ice because you have summer tyres you get fined if you get caught. Like a few people here I have been thankful more than once that I had them fitted.

 

I think in most countries the law states something like your car should be fitted with tyres which are appropriate for the weather & road conditions.

Similar to your car should be roadworthy & well maintained there's no hard rule but the same as if you have an accident because your brakes are not in good condition, you are liable if you have an accident or block the road because of inappropriate tyres for the conditions.

[cheezemonkhai]

The 6J vs 6.5J (46 vs 48) discussion.

On the O2 if they are 6J, then they are a skoda approved size for snow chains, and I they are 6.5J snow chains are a no go.

If you think you might fit snow chains ever, then check out the skoda O3 tyre approvals and see which work for you?

I personally am no expert, but if I was unsure I'd fit the 6J just to be sure of a bit more clearance.

[SC03OTT]

I am about to pull the trigger and buy a set of winter tyres, after looking into it I am set on a set of Goodyear Ultragrip 9's, 16" on steel rims.

I have the Octavia 2.0TDi 110KW hatchback, vanilla with no modifications, I have looked through my vehicle handbook and the 205/55 R16 are fine for my car, I am going for the 91H which is below the vehicles "must be at least a 91V" but the caveat of "unless it's winter tyres and the speed does not exceed the tyres rated speed" - which is good as I don't plan on going in excess of 110mph with winter tyres fitted.

link

What I am stuck on is the "offset"; I can get the wheels in either a 46 offset or a 48, I have no idea which one I should go for nor am I able to find any information as to any real world difference other than the 48 is better for snow chains?

Can anyone in the know help me out please?

Double check the 16" size. I don't know what model year your TDI is but early models came with the bigger brakes meaning 17" wheels are needed. Just something to double check though.

[Gabbo]

Double check the 16" size. I don't know what model year your TDI is but early models came with the bigger brakes meaning 17" wheels are needed. Just something to double check though.

 

Only the vRS came with larger brake discs.

The standard model TDIs have the smaller brakes which will fit 16" wheels.