EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[moley]

Not likely. It would be a leopard changing it spots to do so. We are seeing big rise in the upper tax threshold, lowering corporation tax and apparently higher council tax to pay for a shortage in community care whilst VAT is still 20%, unless you are VAT registered and can claim it back. The balance continues to be for business and the wealthier portion of society and if the poor continue to waste their vote backing other parties other than the main left wing party then the status quo will continue.

You can only claim back your VAT on your business and not for any private purchases, so if like me you run your own business and you're VAT registered you can't claim the VAT back on anything that is not used for the business.

For voting left wing I assume you mean labour? That would mean voting for Corbyn to run the country...That would be the time to emigrate.

[theezenutz]

Or perhaps it's just better to try something other than that, that hasn't been working for quite some time now. Perhaps it's like Carlin said " we don't need better Politicians, we need better citizens"

So for how much longer do we need to participate in this dysfunctional ritual? How much worse does it have to get before we actually do something about it rather than debating, moaning, complaining and lynching our way back into the stone ages?

We should have a poll to see just how many people left today who actually believe what they promise and continuously fail to deliver.

We need a ®evolution of the mind, body and soul to rid us from these destructive ritualistic practises, not that it hasn't already begun

[lol-lol]

You can only claim back your VAT on your business and not for any private purchases, so if like me you run your own business and you're VAT registered you can't claim the VAT back on anything that is not used for the business.

For voting left wing I assume you mean labour? That would mean voting for Corbyn to run the country...That would be the time to emigrate.

 

Yep the rules say that you must use the goods for business use only but the reality is that the items, the fuel, the vehicles get used for private use and disguised as business use. One of the biggest scams in modern society.  Certainly tens of billions of pounds evaded in these sorts of tricks which I would try to catch people out as a Auditing Customs Officer but impossible, and one might says loop holes allowed to persist as so many voters benefit from it.  Spent many a day catching businesses out doing knocks in this direction but the evasion is so massive that it can only be changed by radical thinking and application of measure ie only Vans are VAT exempt and not normal cars etc.

 

Someone needs to stem the decade long worsening of the UK finances and failing to collect tax fairly and properly is something that that has not been done for many years and hence the spiralling National Debt and in 40 minutes time the US is due to raise interest rates and the party is over.  UK citizens need a government that at least gets close to fulfilling its promises rather than just saying it will balance the books and control immigration and collect the tens of billions of tax that is being allowed to be evaded at present.  It is hard to imagine a worse job being done than the existing one, I remember the Blair era, a part from the Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya chapters, with much financial fondness compared to today's governance or lack thereof.      

[CWARD]

I remember the Blair era, a part from the Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya chapters, with much financial fondness compared to today's governance or lack thereof.

Are you nuts. Financial fondness of the start of the credit boom based on sub prime mortgages, housing market that is artificially inflated but must be maintained to prevent the country going bankrupt. Now first time buyers can't afford to get on the housing markets and instead have to rent at extortionate rates.

This was when Gordon Brown was telling us the bubble wouldn't burst but whilst the country went on a massive spending spree the government was able to go get its own credit card out and spend, spend, spend. This would have been great if it paid off our national debt and created a safety net. No instead it had hospitals and other infrastructure built on private finance initiatives which by the time, a very long time, we've repaid it we could have built 10's of hospitals for the cost of one. Many other stupid arrangements were entered into during this time with a frenzy to push through the contracts before the Tory's came to power so that we are locked into them and paying over the odds. I remember the era too but for the stupidity of it all. An era that managed to create the greatest gap between the have and have nots. Let's not dwell on the wars too much that have created so much death, pain and trouble throughout the world. Great era, not.

Edited 14 December, 2016 by CWARD

[Ootohere]

Winter 2016 is feeling so last decade and the decade before.

 

A proper Winter of discontent.

Strikes and more strikes on the horizon, if the weather was to get really cold black or brown outs possible,

the working people expecting higher inflation, British Weapons killing the innocents abroad, 

& politicians that are more interested on in fighting and keeping their own jobs.

 

National Borrowing & Debt rising and an uncertain future. 

So just the usual then, Conservatives & Unionists or Plastic Socialists & Flip Flopping Liberals sitting arguing or just debating the countries woes, 

and the Peers turn up and collect £300 a day and block much the MP's agree on doing.

Edited 14 December, 2016 by Offski

[trundlenut]

Or perhaps it's just better to try something other than that, that hasn't been working for quite some time now. Perhaps it's like Carlin said " we don't need better Politicians, we need better citizens"

So for how much longer do we need to participate in this dysfunctional ritual? How much worse does it have to get before we actually do something about it rather than debating, moaning, complaining and lynching our way back into the stone ages?

We should have a poll to see just how many people left today who actually believe what they promise and continuously fail to deliver.

We need a ®evolution of the mind, body and soul to rid us from these destructive ritualistic practises, not that it hasn't already begun

Go on then.

[moley]

in 40 minutes time the US is due to raise interest rates and the party is over.

The US have increased their interest rates up 0.25% to 0.75% and I haven't noticed any difference yet, the sky hasn't fallen in and the world appears to still be turning.

[lol-lol]

Are you nuts. Financial fondness of the start of the credit boom based on sub prime mortgages, housing market that is artificially inflated but must be maintained to prevent the country going bankrupt. Now first time buyers can't afford to get on the housing markets and instead have to rent at extortionate rates.

This was when Gordon Brown was telling us the bubble wouldn't burst but whilst the country went on a massive spending spree the government was able to go get its own credit card out and spend, spend, spend. This would have been great if it paid off our national debt and created a safety net. No instead it had hospitals and other infrastructure built on private finance initiatives which by the time, a very long time, we've repaid it we could have built 10's of hospitals for the cost of one. Many other stupid arrangements were entered into during this time with a frenzy to push through the contracts before the Tory's came to power so that we are locked into them and paying over the odds. I remember the era too but for the stupidity of it all. An era that managed to create the greatest gap between the have and have nots. Let's not dwell on the wars too much that have created so much death, pain and trouble throughout the world. Great era, not.

 

Certainly when I bought a house in 1997 houses were quite affordable but that was just after the house price crash under the Cons in the early and mid nineties so it was a good time to buy.  

 

My experience was wages and house prices grew steadily in matched way for the next decade.  Things changed with the Lehman Bros collapse in the US which had a domino affect.

 

What has failed to happen is to deal with the issues in the 8 years since then.   A body in intensive care for so long withers and now US interest rates have just risen in the past few minutes is the beginning of a new era but because we have allowed the UK national debt to double since the world banking crisis we are exposed to paying higher interest rates on our much higher national debt.  There are 3 interest rates projected by the Fed for 2017.

 

If you think the late nineties and noughties were bad you a'int seen nothing yet compared to what lies ahead as we did not fix the roof over the last 7 years.    

[Ootohere]

I bought in the 80's when Interest Rates were at their highest, there was mis-selling of Insurance, there was FIS & Milk Tokens and Butter Mountains & Harry Enfield & 

City Boys in Red Braces & Nice cars, Wine Bars & Hot Hatches.

 

Looking forward to those days again.

Edited 14 December, 2016 by Offski

[lol-lol]

The US have increased their interest rates up 0.25% to 0.75% and I haven't noticed any difference yet, the sky hasn't fallen in and the world appears to still be turning.

 

Pound fell from 1.27 to 1.26 in a matter of minutes but we will see and I think it is the project 3 further rate rises stated for 2017 rather than the 1 this month.

 

Fortunately oil is falling similarly which should offset the GBP cost of oil.  Lots of planning to do for 2017, hedging, getting paid in USDs or other strong currencies.  

 

Fed raises rates, sees faster pace of increases in 2017

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-idUSKBN1430G4

 

The Fed's median outlook for rates rose to three quarter-point increases in 2017 from two as of September. That would be followed by another three increases in both 2018 and 2019 before the rate levels off at a long-run "normal" 3.0 percent.   

Edited 14 December, 2016 by lol-lol

[@Lee]

I bought in the 80's when Interest Rates were at their highest, there was mis-selling of Insurance, there was FIS & Milk Tokens and Butter Mountains & Harry Enfield & 

City Boys in Red Braces & Nice cars, Wine Bars & Hot Hatches.

 

Looking forward to those days again.

TBH though, George you could have bought the equivalent of Skyfall and its Lord and Lairdship and matching skirt for the price of a bottle of Bucky in the 80's.

[Ootohere]

No we just drove around the Highlands & Islands finding abandoned vehicles with a Reg Number and got them on the road, well something was MOT'd.

Lots of Aston Martins, Range Rovers and the likes now have a Massey Ferguson or Puch Moped Registration Number.

Selling Cherished Registrations bought lots of Partying & booze in shebeens and the likes/

(now people are pulling out those wrecks from the nettles & thistles and looking out the paperwork and rebuilding and registering again....)

 

Obviously Fiction on my part.

Like lol-lol's stuff.  

Edited 14 December, 2016 by Offski

[CWARD]

Certainly when I bought a house in 1997 houses were quite affordable but that was just after the house price crash under the Cons in the early and mid nineties so it was a good time to buy.

My experience was wages and house prices grew steadily in matched way for the next decade. Things changed with the Lehman Bros collapse in the US which had a domino affect.

So you are nuts or have some very distorted rose tinted spectacles. I know you love your graphs and there is plenty in the link below which blow your theories out of your backside.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5709/housing/market/

As for fixing the country in 8 years I think you'll find it will be decades to resolve the issues regardless of which party is in power, in meantime they'll just continue to blame each other.

Edited 14 December, 2016 by CWARD

[gadgetman]

A proper Winter of discontent.

Strikes and more strikes on the horizon,

Don't get me started on the opportunistic unions holding the public to ransom.

[Ootohere]

Theresa May MP / PM is all about Equality.  

All low paid and JAM's should suffer and those comfortably off should be even more comfortable.  That is Equality Tory Stylee.

Edited 14 December, 2016 by Offski

[@Lee]

Don't get me started on the opportunistic unions holding the public to ransom.

Feckin' misery down here at the moment with Southern rail arguing the toss over who opens a door. Almost two hours from Southampton to Portsmouth yesterday and again today on the M27.

[VWD]

Lee- Southern Rail management have got the PR lot shouting about who opens a door. It's not ,just about that. The Guard, they are trying to get rid of on cost saving reasons ,is equivalent to the bloke that used to stop folks faling down open manholes, and now replaced by your safety guarding. BUT- when a two coach "railbus" fails/etc, then one man is sufficient, as are rails on your manhole. Now imagine a manhole a lot bigger. Would you be happy setting up a safe system, knowing that if one phone freak walked into the hole , you'd be done/sued for their injuries.

I've been on BT road guarding courses. I also hold ( held ) a lot of high rail safety certificates, and the truth on safety on rail without a second person ( I'd say they need a few more) is being hidden under management financial constraints.

I was qualified to take a party of blokes out on the live rail system, subject to constraints

1- I had a risk assessment plan .

2- I had at least one lookout ,or some form of prevention of workers and trains not meeting.

3- possibly more reasons, that Auric, as a driver can come up with.

Q for Souther rail management (who IMHO have never seen track safety problems first hand) is when ( NOT IF) a Southern rail train breaks down in section, WITHOUT a Guard(and in a radio & phone blackspot/ failure area of radio + phone),WHo will protect the rear of the train

It's not like standing round a hole, warning folks not to walk into it- the required safe area to the rear of an incident ( when comms fail) could be up to a mile and 3/4 .

THAT is what safe rail working is about.

[lol-lol]

So you are nuts or have some very distorted rose tinted spectacles. I know you love your graphs and there is plenty in the link below which blow your theories out of your backside.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5709/housing/market/

As for fixing the country in 8 years I think you'll find it will be decades to resolve the issues regardless of which party is in power, in meantime they'll just continue to blame each other.

 

All the data is all interesting and mostly accurate but requires interpretation but the one I think is key is as below:-

The real difference between the nineties, noughties and this decade is shown here.  But also worth remembering that now half the worlds wealth is held by 1% of the population.  The issue is not one of enough money being generated it is about distribution.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/24597/labour-markets/reasons-for-falling-wages/

 

Edited 14 December, 2016 by lol-lol

[The PM]

Lee- Southern Rail management have got the PR lot shouting about who opens a door. It's not ,just about that. The Guard, they are trying to get rid of on cost saving reasons ,is equivalent to the bloke that used to stop folks faling down open manholes, and now replaced by your safety guarding. BUT- when a two coach "railbus" fails/etc, then one man is sufficient, as are rails on your manhole. Now imagine a manhole a lot bigger. Would you be happy setting up a safe system, knowing that if one phone freak walked into the hole , you'd be done/sued for their injuries.

I've been on BT road guarding courses. I also hold ( held ) a lot of high rail safety certificates, and the truth on safety on rail without a second person ( I'd say they need a few more) is being hidden under management financial constraints.

I was qualified to take a party of blokes out on the live rail system, subject to constraints

1- I had a risk assessment plan .

2- I had at least one lookout ,or some form of prevention of workers and trains not meeting.

3- possibly more reasons, that Auric, as a driver can come up with.

Q for Souther rail management (who IMHO have never seen track safety problems first hand) is when ( NOT IF) a Southern rail train breaks down in section, WITHOUT a Guard(and in a radio & phone blackspot/ failure area of radio + phone),WHo will protect the rear of the train

It's not like standing round a hole, warning folks not to walk into it- the required safe area to the rear of an incident ( when comms fail) could be up to a mile and 3/4 .

THAT is what safe rail working is about.

 

Not to mention Disabled People not being able to get on the train because there's no station staff as well as guards (already a reality in some parts of the country)...

 

What happens if someone falls ill like they did on my train recently? I got a paramedic to them within 5 minutes by stopping the train at a station we weren't booked to stop at and sorting out medical care whilst we were on the move and using my route knowledge to get the paramedic to the best station, something the driver can't do... DOO? A passenger would have pulled the pass-com, the train would have stopped in the middle of nowhere, the driver would have had to come back to check what the issue is, then start the train and move on... Good 25 minutes all that...

 

Rowdy Football Fans causing havoc?

 

Train crash and driver killed or incapacitated (Greyrigg a couple of years ago!)... Who did the emergency call? The GUARD did.

 

 

 

Be careful what you wish for folks... It's a cost cutting exercise, nothing else and even the RSSB (railway safety board) have admitted privately that DOO trains are not safe.

Edited 15 December, 2016 by The PM

[CWARD]

Lol-lol, you could interpret a turd as a gold nugget. Obviously you picked a chart, based on the top 50 percent not 100 (see my previous comment on greatest difference between the have and have nots), that suited your argument, failed to read the rest to draw a conclusion which was actually spelled out for you at the end:

 

"Several factors are responsible for falling wages – not just in the UK, but across the developed world. Most convincing are poor productivity and changes to labour markets leading to greater wage flexibility. Also, growing inequality is a major issue, making low wage growth more problematic as the low paid see others in society gaining an increasing share.

Unfortunately, many of the structural factors behind low wage growth show no sign of immediate change – meaning low wage growth could continue for a significant time. This low wage growth is also more problematic when combined with rising living costs – especially housing for young people."

[The PM]

Winter 2016 is feeling so last decade and the decade before.

 

A proper Winter of discontent.

 

 

What we have now is nothing compared with the 70s...

 

Not even close...

Edited 15 December, 2016 by The PM

[Ootohere]

No not yet, and maybe never but time will tell.

Fashions go around, just look at the wanabe militants wear now, very 70's.  

Rebels without a cause and lost without a Mobile Phone & Social Network.   Union reps do look even better fed than in the 70's.

 

Do you get 'Flash Mob pickets' standing around a Dustbin with holes in and drivers tooting from the Social Media Generation.

 

PS

When i was at school in the 70;s and starting work, was more than 2 decades ago.

Simple arithmetic really, we learned it during fuel rationing & counting down the Charts on Top of the Pops.

Edited 15 December, 2016 by Offski

[The PM]

Hopefully never, I wouldn't want to go through those times again, though there were good times as well, I was a teenager of the 70s, 13 in '70, my decade I suppose!

 

Fuel Rationing? That was the 40s and 50s, it never got that bad in the 70s, there was one occasion when it could have happened in '73 but it didn't. I can remember some garages shutting due to lack of fuel, but never rationing.

Edited 15 December, 2016 by The PM

[CWARD]

We did have the fuel strikes in the 90's though, which wasn't much fun.

[Ootohere]

I was working on the Fuel Pumps in a Garage during rationing and remember it well.

Maybe Scotland was slightly different for fuel availability, no idea where you were.

Edited 15 December, 2016 by Offski