EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[trundlenut]

So why the need for these threads and why the need for all the doom and gloom? If you were paying attention you would have seen that, that was pointed out multiple times in your original thread 109 pages ago.

But so many of the Brexit brigade get confused and keep saying how well we're doing, we have to keep pointing it out. It's a public service together with reminding them it isn't 1953 and it's the Commonwealth now, not the empire.

Edited 30 November, 2016 by trundlenut

[@Lee]

But so many of the Brexit brigade get confused and keep saying how well we're doing, we have to keep pointing it out. It's a public service together with reminding them it isn't 1953 and it's the Commonwealth now, not the empire.

We should all be proud that the Commonwealth has defeated the Sith and the Empire.

[gadgetman]

Oh Boris, with these views you're really confusing us

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-supports-freedom-of-movement-in-brexit-10678355

[KenONeill]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11560017/Postal-voting-fraud-is-easy-electoral-commissioner-says.html

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4431765.ece

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-32391737

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-33070604

Those cites all seem to relate to individual wards or constituencies (Times link requires subscription) and don't seem to suggest that electronic voting at Polling Places would be liable to easy personation.

[moley]

Those cites all seem to relate to individual wards or constituencies (Times link requires subscription) and don't seem to suggest that electronic voting at Polling Places would be liable to easy personation.

I was under the impression that the reason for electronic voting was to be able to vote from your smartphone or laptop wherever you are rather than attend your polling station on the day.

[lol-lol]

I was under the impression that the reason for electronic voting was to be able to vote from your smartphone or laptop wherever you are rather than attend your polling station on the day.

 

Biometric authentication should be part of the e-voting system.  Like with the electoral role officials should verify that actual persons voting intentions are being registered.  Banking has moved on, so should voting.  Agree as above that important decisions should require an actual majority ie 50% of the electorate as with other votes ie other referendums, strike votes.  Until this is adopted many of us will us all means possible to bury, delay, frustrate the BREXIT move until the catastrophic consequences of BREXIT are fully appreciate and a new government and re-vote buries the folly.

 

Bye-bye Zac Goldsmith.  Fought a dirty London mayoral election, opposed Third runway, a BREXIT MP losses his seat, Sign of the Times.  

 

Oh and most immigration is still non-EU...........     

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration

Edited 2 December, 2016 by lol-lol

[The PM]

Some people need postal voting, the disabled for a start. I agree there should be better control, though...

 

Re Richmond Park, that constituency was Liberal up to the last election and in the Referendum voted 69/31 for Remain so no surprise at all the Libs won it back... The surprise is that he got so close (1800 majority is small) - "Sign of the Times"? No, not really, to be that he should have been wiped out, he wasn't.

[lol-lol]

Some people need postal voting, the disabled for a start. I agree there should be better control, though...

 

Re Richmond Park, that constituency was Liberal up to the last election and in the Referendum voted 69/31 for Remain so no surprise at all the Libs won it back... The surprise is that he got so close (1800 majority is small) - "Sign of the Times"? No, not really, to be that he should have been wiped out, he wasn't.

 

Zac got less votes than was his majority was last year.  Libs got half the whole votes cast (much higher percentage than the current government has ie only 36.9% of the electorate).

 

Paul Nutty, just voted head of UKIP, got voted as leader with less than 10,000 total votes.  

 

Be interesting to see if we get some defections now the majority in parliament is so small which could force an early general election.   

[moley]

Neither the Tories or UKIP put a candidate up for this by election and the turnout was only 53%. Labour lost their deposit in what clearly was a vote regarding Heathrow expansion and Brexit.

[The PM]

Zac got less votes than was his majority was last year.  Libs got half the whole votes cast (much higher percentage than the current government has ie only 36.9% of the electorate).

 

 

 

Look at previous results in that constituency, both for the MP and the Referendum, the Libs were just getting it back, and with a 69/31 vote for Remain for that constituency it was not a surprise result. What was surprising was the he still got 18k voters voting for him and that the majority was the smallest for the past six elections. As Moley said it was a Brexit vote and he lost because he supported it but the majority of his constituents didn't. There is nothing more to be read from the result.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Park_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

Edited 2 December, 2016 by The PM

[@Lee]

A poem by Michael Rosen (Former Children's Laureate)

 

“Concerns about immigration”? Where does that come from?

The media keep saying:

“People are expressing concerns about immigration
People are expressing concerns about immigration
People are expressing concerns about immigration”

If you are registered as non-dom you can run a business
in the UK but pay no tax. This costs us billions.

“People are expressing concerns about immigration.”

If the government cuts public services, they increase
pressure on public services.

“People are expressing concerns about immigration.”

Since 1980, wealth has shifted from labour to capital.
In other words those that ‘have’, have more; those that
have the least, have less. Those that have the least
have given wealth to those that have more.

“People are expressing concerns about immigration”

The government regularly announces that it freezes
the wages of public service workers. This means that
people can afford less. Their living standards decline.

“People are expressing concerns about immigration”

The government has repeatedly brought in policies
which have helped to increase the price of houses.
The proportion of people’s income required to rent or buy
has steadily risen. Flats and houses cost more to live in.
There is less space per pound of people’s income.

“People are expressing concerns about immigration”

Some people do not know that the main reasons for their
standard of living to go down are nothing to do with immigration.
Instead, they keep hearing:

“People are expressing concerns about immigration.”

You know what happens next?

some people express some concern about immigration.
After all, people can only think what they think
based on available information.
The media supply the available information.
They keep saying:

‘People are expressing concerns about immigration.”

The government laughs quietly to itself:
“People do not blame us for their living standards going down,
they blame immigration.”

 

Michael’s point is simple and eloquently expressed. People’s concerns over immigration are being fueled by a corrupt media and lazy politicians who cannot account for their own failings. It is easier to claim that there is too much demand than admit you failed to meet supply.

http://evolvepolitics.com/michael-rosen-absolutely-nails-britains-obsession-immigration-complete-utter-nonsense/

[gadgetman]

Neither the Tories or UKIP put a candidate up for this by election and the turnout was only 53%. Labour lost their deposit in what clearly was a vote regarding Heathrow expansion and Brexit.

Lib dems are saying it's about reversing brexit but I think it's more about reigning in the leavers from carrying out a knee jerk brexit.

Most of the remainers are consigned to the fact it is happening, it just we want it done properly with the best deal and least fall out for the economy and jobs.

[cheezemonkhai]

Well it's clear operation try and make brexit fail or as bad as possible is happening in the EU.

They don't' want us to leave, because they need the money from a certain 4 countries (Us included) to keep funding the gravy train.

 

https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

This guy seems to bang on about any leader that wants to make their own country more important than the big EU project.

 

UK, Poland, Hungary...

Edited 3 December, 2016 by cheezemonkhai

[trundlenut]

Well it's clear operation try and make brexit fail or as bad as possible is happening in the EU.

They don't' want us to leave, because they need the money from a certain 4 countries (Us included) to keep funding the gravy train.

https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

This guy seems to bang on about any leader that wants to make their own country more important than the big EU project.

UK, Poland, Hungary...

We don't have to worry about him. BoJo and the Brexit Boys say it will all be fine. The EU can't live without us and will just collapse as soon as David Davis walks into the negotiating room with the super plan.

[lol-lol]

We don't have to worry about him. BoJo and the Brexit Boys say it will all be fine. The EU can't live without us and will just collapse as soon as David Davis walks into the negotiating room with the super plan.

 

The EU countries can and will continue without the UK as the UK is only 6% of their international trade.   

 

The UK contribution to the EU budget will be replaced by billions of Euros worth of customs duties collected on UK goods entering the EU plus the moves of companies like Jaguar Land Rover moving car production to Austria, Netherlands and Slovakia as they are presently doing.

 

There will also be billions of Euros of customs business on the processing of millions of customs entries per year in to the EU countries for the UK goods but also the vast majority of International Logistic companies in the UK are European mainland companies, such as DHL, so there is billions to be made for the export entries from the UK to the EU plus all the origin documentation etc that will be required.

 

The UK net contribution of around £175M a week will look like chicken feed compared to the admin costs to businesses and the raised cost of goods in UK shops which we are already seeing with inflation rising since BREXIT ie RPI at 2% from below 1% and expected to be at 3% next year.  

[Ootohere]

?

How are you getting on, any pay rise or pay cut or offer of a new job anytime soon, and is the pension fund looking better?

Any chance of a 2nd job with the Liberal Democrats as a predictor or with Derren Brown as a warm up act?

Edited 3 December, 2016 by Offski

[lol-lol]

?

How are you getting on, any pay rise or pay cut or offer of a new job anytime soon, and is the pension fund looking better?

Any chance of a 2nd job with the Liberal Democrats as a predictor or with Derren Brown as a warm up act?

Well business is looking pretty good at the moment as I deal with a lot of Exporters and Importer. Exporters are buoyant at the lower exchange rate and importers looking to adopt processes such as Customs Warehousing. Had a couple of requests to discuss jobs last month, expect it will be quite over Xmas.

Pay rises and bonuses are usually April in my industry, means it is neatly fitted in to the Tax year structure. Most pension funds are fairly rubbish at the moment with all but the US stock market non too good. Bonds and Gilts either around zero or even negative but the key aspect of pension funds is to put money in and get the tax relief, currently up to £40K input and therefore £16K relief a year of course and then look to remove a quarter of it ASAP under tax rules and put it to good work elsewhere.

Would never work for the Con-Dems (other than collecting billions of pounds for the HMG as I do which is my legal duty).

Have you seen this clip with Derren Brown and Simon Pegg (bit of hero of mine with the Star Trek connection). Absolutely marvelous and shows how Darren actual works some of his tricks...

Edited 3 December, 2016 by lol-lol

[Laurie61]

Lib dems are saying it's about reversing brexit but I think it's more about reigning in the leavers from carrying out a knee jerk brexit.

Most of the remainers are consigned to the fact it is happening, it just we want it done properly with the best deal and least fall out for the economy and jobs.

 

I think the lib dems have at least one eye on attempting to use the brexit situation as a way of fixing the diabolical mess they found themselves in after the last election. They are currently trying to appear as the most pro EU party in the hope all remain voters will turn out next Election Day and provide them with a biblical style resurrection.  

[trundlenut]

I think the lib dems have at least one eye on attempting to use the brexit situation as a way of fixing the diabolical mess they found themselves in after the last election. They are currently trying to appear as the most pro EU party in the hope all remain voters will turn out next Election Day and provide them with a biblical style resurrection.

I really don't understand why people in the UK can't get the concept of a coalition.

[The PM]

Probably because during the coalitions we've had nothing much got done and we ended up with a dead Dodo of a government... I think most people what something to happen rather than nothing, even if it's not really what they actually want!

 

I see there's yet more guesswork coming from the Remain camp... Come on, folks, we DON'T KNOW what will happen so stop trying to put the knockers on it. You are making Project Fear look like a walk in the park with your guesses...

[gadgetman]

Well bojo seems to have given the game away on paying for single market access and accepting some free movement in return on Peston just now.

[The PM]

That's been on the cards for ages, again it's nothing new... But until we start negotiations then we won't know what is possible. It's irrelevant what is said at the moment. He was never a true "out" person, he was just doing it to further his career.

[gadgetman]

Yes be he was instrumental in selling a rusk free eu exit which is why a number voted to leave.

After all if everything could carry on as before, and we could be more prosperous why stay. It seemed a no brainer.

But it's like being fed up with your job, going elsewhere then realising perhaps you were better where you were.

[@Lee]

lulz

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/04/government-memo-brexit-leaks-leaked-cabinet-secretary?CMP=fb_gu

[Scribbler]

Yes be he was instrumental in selling a rusk free eu exit which is why a number voted to leave.

After all if everything could carry on as before, and we could be more prosperous why stay. It seemed a no brainer.

But it's like being fed up with your job, going elsewhere then realising perhaps you were better where you were.

 

How many people are stuck in a job they hate because they are told "the grass isn't greener on the otherside"?

Its all about positive or negative outlook. Unfortunately people have become like sheep and the greatest lie of

all is that the UK can't survive without the EU. The only argument the left can win is a materialistic one where

monetarily we might be worse off. But money isn't everything well it is to the super rich who are the small few

who do benefit from EU membership due to the inequality of member states. My advise if you hate your job

get a new one don't accept the status quo life is too short we have the power to influence our own future and

this is also true of our relationship with the EU.