EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[S00perb]

3 hours ago, domhnall said:

 

which is what makes it so hilarious when you meet a Brexiteer as I did the other week who says the main reason for voting leave was "to cut bureaucracy". 

 

HaHa! - cut bureaucracy!! Thats a good one...

A. We take on EVERY EU rule that exists now - and then create new ones!

B. Many small to medium business only traded within the EU - because it was just as simple as trading within the UK - not in the future - they won't believe the extra paperwork that will involve (my partner shipped software to businesses in the USA: ONE disc - FIVE hours paperwork!!!)

C. We have NO trade experts:

"For decades Whitehall has sub-contracted trade negotiations to Brussels: a committee of MPs found that Britain had fewer than 20 officials with direct knowledge of trade negotiations; Canada had 830. Many of the British experts who would be best at brokering a deal are working for the European Commission. Some in Whitehall are keen to bring them back, but Eurosceptic ministers are suspicious of their motives."

 

I would gladly get a comfy chair, a beer and sit back to watch the fireworks - BUT WE have to live wilth the fall out.

[S00perb]

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

"and implement technology-based solutions to make it easier to comply with customs procedures."

Oh dear - another £15 million failed IT project on the way..........

Nevermind, it will pay for a few IT guys to buy more cars

Edited 28 August, 2017 by S00perb

[Ootohere]

15 million?    The Scottish governments not fit for purpose IT system was 178 million British pounds,. Not quite sure who payments go to for IT systems that fail to do what they are being commissioned to do. Odd that they get money,  but those the systems are there to get money to can not do that!

 

 

[lol-lol]

25 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

15 million?    The Scottish governments not fit for purpose IT system was 178 million British pounds,. Not quite sure who payments go to for IT systems that fail to do what they are being commissioned to do. Odd that they get money,  but those the systems are there to get money to can not do that!

 

 

 

UK still going a billion pounds further in to national debt every week so should not be too worried about the millions and as inflation is beginning to bite the gap between receipts and payments which had been closing due to the 8 year long squeeze on public servant wages is now opening up again.............

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/publicsectorfinances/july2017

Main points

• Public sector net borrowing (excluding public sector banks) increased by £1.9 billion to £22.8 billion in the current financial year-to-date (April 2017 to July 2017), compared with the same period in 2016.

• The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) forecast that public sector net borrowing (excluding public sector banks) will be £58.3 billion during the financial year ending March 2018.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Not to worry,  plenty doing well still with exports,  and tourism is bringing in,  and every transaction needs a banking facility or a card transaction, and a customs transaction in one way or another so no banker or major international investor has lost out in any way yet,  or I doubt a single politician had considered topping themselves.   All good stuff in the end really.   

 

 

[domhnall]

still at least we can build major infrastructure projects under budget eh George?

 

 

[lol-lol]

47 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Not to worry,  plenty doing well still with exports,  and tourism is bringing in,  and every transaction needs a banking facility or a card transaction, and a customs transaction in one way or another so no banker or major international investor has lost out in any way yet,  or I doubt a single politician had considered topping themselves.   All good stuff in the end really.   

 

 

 

But we import half as much again as we export and that takes many years to changes and our tourism is still a fraction of what France has.  Such things take a decade of two to make big changes to via infrastruture.  Making all the royal palaces etc visitable would be a start.

[Ootohere]

UK not the size of France and is an island nation and only had a land border with 1 EU country after March 2019.  Hence BREXIT.  Then France is not in the commonwealth so they just need to such up their problems with the other EU founding countries,  they will just have to get on an improve their own economy.   Not joking about that,  get their own tax paying french back rather than living as migrants in the UK.   ??how many tourists visiting France are passing through,  counted in from the UK, then counted back in entering France again to get back through and to the UK??   

PS,  not royal palaces in the UK,  tax payers palaces. If the UK royals want to let people in free to anyplace they actually own they are free to do so,  that is about as likely as paying taxes fully though

 

PPS,  have you mot noticed that the UK has airports overflowing with people entering and leaving the UK and transiting.  Maybe a fee less or just paying what is needed to enter the UK is what is needed,  pay for all the pollution,  or reduce it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 August, 2017 by Awayoffski

[@Lee]

I read that three times, George and I'm still none the wiser as to wtf you're point is.
Those French 'migrants' as you call them are here legally and paying taxes and contributing to the UK's economy, its NHS, its education system, its banking and finance sector and its nuclear industry (I personally know a French electricial systems design engineer with a Phd who works at the AEA). We need these people. Fact.
What does your Hungarian or Romanian or whatever it is boyfriend do to contribute, or you even? May you should eff off?

[Ootohere]

I know they are here lo Legally and paying taxes here to avoid paying higher in France,  and France will get some back.  And the UK will get Expats or as they are immigrants to other countries back,  some to spend and some to take from the UK,s nhs etc saying they worked for it all their lives,  or much of it.  Swings and roundabouts. Or balls buffets and banquets

   Brexit means brexit,  more jobs for carers and low pay workers in the UK.   What migrants contribute to the UK will be what your other half and you do no doubt,  just keeping the economy and the population up..      as for effing off it is nice to have the choice to eff off as and when one wants.

 

Edited 28 August, 2017 by Awayoffski

[S00perb]

15 hours ago, Lee01 said:

.............. here legally and paying taxes and contributing to the UK's economy, its NHS, its education system, its banking and finance sector and its nuclear industry (I personally know a French electricial systems design engineer with a Phd who works at the AEA). We need these people. Fact.

I just visited a company last week that I went to last year as well.

Last year they had 30+ Polish IT programmers - top notch guys (and gals), very hard working - the company was overtaking their competitors because the workers were very fast and good at their jobs.

Last week - ONE Polish worker was left in the office! The rest were all gone due to feeling unwanted here and apparently our exchange rate is making it not worth the hassle any more.

The company is finding it impossible to recruit IT programmers - we just don't train high quality ones in this country. Innovation there has ground to a complete halt, they are turning new work away.

Extrapolate this around the country and it isn't hard to see the way things are heading.

[domhnall]

2 hours ago, S00perb said:

I just visited a company last week that I went to last year as well.

Last year they had 30+ Polish IT programmers - top notch guys (and gals), very hard working - the company was overtaking their competitors because the workers were very fast and good at their jobs.

Last week - ONE Polish worker was left in the office! The rest were all gone due to feeling unwanted here and apparently our exchange rate is making it not worth the hassle any more.

The company is finding it impossible to recruit IT programmers - we just don't train high quality ones in this country. Innovation there has ground to a complete halt, they are turning new work away.

Extrapolate this around the country and it isn't hard to see the way things are heading.

 

but we'll have taken back our sovereignty don't you know?

[S00perb]

2 minutes ago, domhnall said:

 

but we'll have taken back our sovereignty don't you know?

Of course - forgot that. Makes it all worth while.

Ummmmmm - does it?

Currently: A proud European Citizen, with my equal rights with 510 million other people protected by the Court of Justice. Free to work, live and roam the whole continent.

Proposed: Being a Citizen on a little island that picks and chooses its justice as and when it suits the powerful. May even need permits to live in Europe. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/human-rights-act-everything-you-5676806

hmmmmmmmm

[@Lee]

Reading between the lines; 'we're getting ****ed off. Sort your **** out, Britain'........
 

 

[S00perb]

"Listen 'ere Mrs, I have had enough of this relationship. I can't do what I want when I want. I want a divorce",

"OK, well you have been dragging your heels a bit lately - how do you want to do this"?

"Well, I was thinking, I like the fact you do me washing and cleaning etc. You share the bills and organisation like. So we can keep that side of things from you. I, on the other hand, want more money for me drinking etc. So You keep on being nice to me and I will keep my earnings. You can do all the stuff I like and I will get me freedom back. How does that sound"?

 

a. "Yes that sounds perfectly reasonable"

or

b. "feck off"

Edited 30 August, 2017 by S00perb

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, S00perb said:

"Listen 'ere Mrs, I have had enough of this relationship. I can't do what I want when I want. I want a divorce",

"OK, well you have been dragging your heels a bit lately - how do you want to do this"?

"Well, I was thinking, I like the fact you do me washing and cleaning etc. You share the bills and organisation like. So we can keep that side of things from you. I, on the other hand, want more money for me drinking etc. So You keep on being nice to me and I will keep my earnings. You can do all the stuff I like and I will get me freedom back. How does that sound"?

 

a. "Yes that sounds perfectly reasonable"

or

b. "feck off"

 

C. See you in court.

[S00perb]

I was abroad during the run up to the vote last year (came back to vote). I heard little of the stupid claims. The one that was shown to me was a picture of the 'battle bus' claiming the NHS would get loads more cash every week. I genuinely belived it was a made up picture - who would believe that? Well apparently, not even the guy who thought it up!

"Brexit: Vote Leave chief who created £350m NHS claim on bus admits leaving EU could be 'an error'- Dominic Cummings also described the referendum as a 'dumb idea' - shaping up to be a 'guaranteed debacle'"

 

Turns out Brexit is having a negative effect on the NHS:

The majority of European doctors working in the UK are considering leaving the country because of Brexit (GMC)
The NHS in England is embarking on a £100m international recruitment drive to boost the number of GPs (BBC)

Over a quarter of doctors working in the UK were trained abroad. About 130,000 EU nationals work in the NHS.

 

[lol-lol]

Article:Monthly economic commentary: August 2017

Provides analysis of the latest estimate of GDP and economic commentary

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/uksectoraccounts/articles/monthlyeconomiccommentary/august2017

1.Main points

• The second estimate of gross domestic product (GDP) shows that the UK economy grew by 0.3% in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2017, unchanged from the preliminary estimate of GDP published on 26 July 2017.

• Growth in private consumption slowed to 0.1% in Quarter 2 2017, the slowest rate of quarterly growth since Quarter 4 (Oct to Dec) 2014.

• The contribution to nominal GDP growth from wage income (compensation of employees) slowed to 1.7 percentage points in Quarter 2 2017 compared with the same quarter a year ago; this is lower than the 2.1 percentage points recorded in each of the previous 3 quarters.

• The 12-month growth rate in the Consumer Prices Index including owner occupiers’ housing costs (CIPH) and the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) both remained stable at 2.6% in July 2017, although inflation in the UK remains higher than in the EU and US

2.Statistician’s comment

“Gross domestic product (GDP) growth has slowed markedly in the first half of the year with relatively robust services growth, partly thanks to a booming film industry, offset by weak performances from manufacturing and construction in the second quarter (April to June 2017).   “Household spending grew weakly, with the lower-value pound hitting household budgets, while business investment showed no growth at all.”

 

Government BREXIT activiity......

 

Edited 1 September, 2017 by lol-lol

[domhnall]

this is a sobering watch - sorry only have a facebook link 

 

 

[@Lee]

7 minutes ago, domhnall said:

this is a sobering watch - sorry only have a facebook link 

 

 

In full here, Dom

 

[moley]

UK manufacturing growth 'accelerates'

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41121954

 

 

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, moley said:

UK manufacturing growth 'accelerates'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41121954

 

 

PMI (Purchasing Mangers Index) is just a survey of "feel" for Purchasing Managers (and includes manager other than manufacturing ie retail/wholesale).

 

The actual figures of what the UK produces and sells abroad ie the bit that can pay for our massive imports is the statistics on the UK exports and how much we are buying from aboard on that is here via the ONS....  (latest figures which is June, July figures out next Friday). 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/june2017

 

Pretty much business as normal ie our trade balance is between £2B and £6B in the red every month, last month report ie June was a fairly poor £5B in the red. 

Main points

• Between Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2017 and Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2017, the total trade deficit (goods and services) widened by £0.1 billion to £8.9 billion as increases in imports were closely matched by increases in exports.

• The UK’s total trade deficit (goods and services) widened by £2.0 billion between May and June 2017 to £4.6 billion, due to increases in imports of both goods and services; erratic commodities had little impact within the total trade balance on the month.

• Since the last UK trade release, the total trade (goods and services) deficits for April and May 2017 have been revised down by £0.3 billion and £0.6 billion respectively; this is due to an upward revision to exports of goods in April 2017 and downward revision to the imports of goods in May.

• Comparing Quarter 2 2017 with Quarter 2 2016, UK goods export and import prices rose by 8.2% and 7.8% respectively and sterling depreciated 8.7% over the same period.

• Despite higher trade prices and weaker sterling, there were similar increases in export and import volumes of goods, by 5.0% and 4.8% respectively, in Quarter 2 2017 compared with the same period a year earlier.

Whilst the volume of goods exported fell in the month of June 2017, Figure 8 shows an increase in Quarter 2 2017 (up 1.4%), the third consecutive quarterly increase in export volumes, which has contributed to the narrowing of the trade deficit in Quarter 2 2017.  This recent growth can partially be attributed to an increase in exports of machinery and transport equipment. Despite a rise in sterling export prices in Quarter 2 2017 compared with Quarter 2 2016, export volumes have increased by 5.0% over the same period. However, even if export prices have risen in sterling terms there may be no change in prices when denominated in a foreign currency, which may be contributing to a more muted export response to the weaker sterling.    Recent analysis also highlighted the price inelastic nature of UK manufactured exports that are concentrated in high-value sectors are likely to be less sensitive to price changes and more sensitive to other demand factors. The quarterly increase in the volume of goods exported was driven largely by exports to EU countries, which increased by 2.7% in Quarter 2 2017 compared with a broadly flat change in export volumes to non-EU countries (up 0.3%). Excluding oil and erratic commodities, exports to the EU showed stronger export growth (up 3.3%).

 

Edited 2 September, 2017 by lol-lol

[@Lee]

Quote

For their sake, though, the rest of us can only hope from the bottom of our hearts that May, Johnson, Davis and Fox – the quartet of the clueless - will one day just be a comical footnote in their eventful history. 

http://international.sueddeutsche.de/post/164858513755/great-britains-fantastic-four

[lol-lol]

6 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

http://international.sueddeutsche.de/post/164858513755/great-britains-fantastic-four

 

Sadly it is tragedy and not comedy when the result of their time, and Cameron of course, is severe damage to half of the UK's current market and the UK falling a further Trillion pounds in to National Debt.

[@Lee]

"Why are those who based arguments for Brexit on the will of the people now opposed to consulting the people?"
Lord Butler
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/03/second-brexit-referendum-case-getting-stronger-political-deadlock-life-raft