EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[Ootohere]

Re Corbyn on the train, do they not book seats in advance as his diary must be well planned in advance is it not?

Was it a cunning stunt by some plastic socialist c_nt to show that public transport can be rammed jammed and not pre-planning means standing or sitting on floors? 

 

If people want to travel on public transport where more passengers are allowed on than seats to accommodate then there are obviously going to be people without seats.

Not rocket science really, not even new since Stephenson's Rocket.

Edited 4 September, 2017 by Awayoffski

[S00perb]

41 minutes ago, Bignij said:

Yep. And if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

I wish everyone would stop moaning and let the politicians **** it up in the way they see fit. They are our elected representatives, for better or worse.

Bend over and let them have their way with you if you like - not me thanks

[S00perb]

50 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Re Corbyn on the train, do they not book seats in advance as his diary must be well planned in advance is it not?

Was it a cunning stunt by some plastic socialist c_nt to show that public transport can be rammed jammed and not pre-planning means standing or sitting on floors? 

 

If people want to travel on public transport where more passengers are allowed on than seats to accommodate then there are obviously going to be people without seats.

Not rocket science really, not even new since Stephenson's Rocket.

The point was very clear to me (not that it needed making to me as I use the trains quite a bit) - private business can't run public transport and 60% of the public want the railways back in public hands - so he is on a winner their

Edited 4 September, 2017 by S00perb

[S00perb]

1 hour ago, old newbie2 said:

I hope that your predicted outcome is correct, but if not.............

 

DC

There was a major tax change recently that made IT consultants like me refuse to work for the government. 80% of IT projects in public sector are now delayed due to this and half of gov techies quit following the tax change. And they think they can suddenly take over all the computer systems the EU is currently managing for us? Not in this reality.

Good story on it here - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/04/80_per_cent_of_it_projects_in_the_public_sector_delayed_due_to_ir35_says_report/

 

 

Edited 4 September, 2017 by S00perb

[Ootohere]

Back in Union Leaders hands i take it you mean!  They would like that very much.  

Come the revolution Lord Prescott & other Labour Peers might pay their own fares on the  Public owned and run transport systems.

[CWARD]

6 minutes ago, S00perb said:

The point was very clear to me (not that it needed makeing to me as I use the trains quite a bit) - private business can't run public transport and 60% of the public want the railways back in public hands - so he is on a winner their

 

I assume you don't remember how badly run and under invested the railways where before. You can't renationalise the railways until after Brexit either as the EU don't allow it. Unlike Labour to send out mixed messages and promises they can't deliver 

http://theconversation.com/fact-check-do-new-eu-rules-make-it-impossible-to-renationalise-railways-61180

[S00perb]

37 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

I assume you don't remember how badly run and under invested the railways where before. You can't renationalise the railways until after Brexit either as the EU don't allow it. Unlike Labour to send out mixed messages and promises they can't deliver 

http://theconversation.com/fact-check-do-new-eu-rules-make-it-impossible-to-renationalise-railways-61180

The East Coast line proved that public ownership of the railways is beneficial - Passenger satisfaction levels were the highest on record, punctuality and reliability were improved and journey numbers and revenue was grown.  Directly Operated Railways handed a billion pounds in premiums to the Treasury during its period in charge. In fact Directly Operated Railways outperformed private franchises.

A report by the Office of Rail Regulation highlighted the line as the most cost efficient – “the most efficiently run rail franchise in terms of its reliance on taxpayer funding”, according to the Financial Times

As to EU railway rules:

The Railways Act 1993 states that the public sector cannot bid for franchises. Either a totally new act would be needed to oversee nationalisation or there would need to be significant amendments to the existing act. (Most of the franchises expire before May 2020.)

None of these hurdles are insurmountable, says Ian Taylor, author of Rebuilding Rail, a 2012 report for the trade unions. "The biggest obstacle to renationalising the railways is the prevailing dogma - the assumption that marketisation and competition must be best." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31621300

Edited 4 September, 2017 by S00perb
spelling

[Ootohere]

Not so sure that the 60% of the public figure is correct.

Is that 60% of the Train using public that want it back in Public Ownership more than all of the public that would have to pay even if they never ever use trains or even have a train system near that they can use.

 

Trains running carrying more goods and carrying light & heavy goods vehicles up and down and across the UK to get them off the roads would be 'simply clever', and maybe a good use of Public Money.

[S00perb]

1 minute ago, Awayoffski said:

Not so sure that the 60% of the public figure is correct.

Is that 60% of the Train using public that want it back in Public Ownership more than all of the public that would have to pay even if they never ever use trains or even have a train system near that they can use.

 

Trains running carrying more goods and carrying light & heavy goods vehicles up and down and across the UK to get them off the roads would be 'simply clever', and maybe a good use of Public Money.

A YouGov survey in May 2014 suggested that the public supported renationalisation by a margin of 60% - 20%.

[Ootohere]

?

Suggested?   Was it not some result?

 

& is that England & Wales, or the UK. It does say 'British People'.

 

Look at the Party ID, at that time the SNP had 56 Westminster MP's. How many did UKIP or LIbDems have?

 

How many people are actually thinking when they see Yougov that it is some Public Survey Organisation, and not one the Conservative & Unionist MP founded, 

that one that powered the families stables with tax payer paid for electricity.

Edited 4 September, 2017 by Awayoffski

[CWARD]

24 minutes ago, S00perb said:

The East Coast line proved that public ownership of the railways is beneficial - Passenger satisfaction levels were the highest on record, punctuality and reliability were improved and journey numbers and revenue was grown.  Directly Operated Railways handed a billion pounds in premiums to the Treasury during its period in charge. In fact Directly Operated Railways outperformed private franchises.

 

Isn't the East as well West coast lines now operated by Virgin who are pay the treasury £3.3billion over 8 years which kinds of trumps the £1billion from DOR. Can't find any way comparisons for customer satisfaction other than PPM at £82% and ranked 9th by a Which survey.  

 

41 minutes ago, S00perb said:

A report by the Office of Rail Regulation highlighted the line as the most cost efficient – “the most efficiently run rail franchise in terms of its reliance on taxpayer funding”, according to the Financial Times

As to EU railway rules:

 

You may want to read the rest of the article and what Peter Williams also quoted rather than cherry pick. 

https://www.ft.com/content/e4be319a-77b1-11e3-807e-00144feabdc0

[Bignij]

1 hour ago, S00perb said:

Bend over and let them have their way with you if you like - not me thanks

The only thing you can do to prevent it is to leave the country. They do what they want. Everyone points to the Poll Tax demonstration (Riot?) to say you change government policy. Well that was a cracking victory. Scrap the Poll Tax, introduce council tax and put VAT up to pay for it. I bet we've paid for more than we would have done under the Poll Tax, with the extra VAT payments.

[S00perb]

5 minutes ago, Bignij said:

The only thing you can do to prevent it is to leave the country. They do what they want. Everyone points to the Poll Tax demonstration (Riot?) to say you change government policy. Well that was a cracking victory. Scrap the Poll Tax, introduce council tax and put VAT up to pay for it. I bet we've paid for more than we would have done under the Poll Tax, with the extra VAT payments.

There is plenty to do - just read my signiture to see how the government is far from in charge!

[Bignij]

5 minutes ago, S00perb said:

There is plenty to do - just read my signiture to see how the government is far from in charge!

That's just cocking up by proxy. 

[S00perb]

2 minutes ago, Bignij said:

That's just cocking up by proxy. 

Which is exactly what the Torys did to British Rail (and the circle is complete)

[Bignij]

4 minutes ago, S00perb said:

Which is exactly what the Torys did to British Rail (and the circle is complete)

Which reinforces my point. They'll do what they want anyhow. Don't worry about things you can't affect. It's the fast road to the madhouse.

[CWARD]

Quote

Of the worlds biggest IT project fails 6 out of 10 - were in the UK

 

What were these IT projects and which government commissioned them?

[S00perb]

18 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

What were these IT projects and which government commissioned them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_failed_and_overbudget_custom_software_projects

But I am NOT saying which ones I was involved with!!

To be fair, its not down to one party in government or another, its more to do with lawyers. the commissioning bodies just don't have the best ones. The companies that take on the work have the best lawyers and if the project fails, they still get paid.

Projects last so long, more requirements creep in. Contractors are far more knowledgeable than the managers and do what they feel they 'want' to do.

Put 2 hungry programmers in a room for a week and they will always achieve more then 200 people inviolved in any big IT project.

Edited 4 September, 2017 by S00perb

[Ootohere]

Were was the Community Charge (Poll Tax) first introduced, and where that had it introduced later then let people off from paying or paying for not registering first, while many were chased for years more?

I do support chasing them for ever for the non payments and not registering,. including those councillors and other elected members or civil servants that never paid and yet collect money from the public purse.

 

Community Charge was the greatest thing since sliced bread IMO.  Have everyone pay for the services not just home owners / renters & those that complied.

 

[Bignij]

7 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Community Charge was the greatest thing since sliced bread IMO.  Have everyone pay for the services not just home owners / renters & those that complied.

 

I sort of agree. It needed a bit of tweaking for the less well off sections of society, but in principle it was the right way to go.

[Ootohere]

Farmers & Land Owners put Students in cottages etc, and later when Community Charge dropped they removed roofs from buildings etc or left them to go derilict,  then later EU funding available to help rural re-population and housing shortages.

 

It never made sense where 1 or 2 living in a property could be paying more than 3 or 4 next door who were all wage earners.

 

Lots needs tweaking in the UK and needed tweaking with the EU Gravy / Grant Train.   Not just sorting of UK Train Services then.

 

Maybe an idea in the UK is for less workers  that have to commute every day by train or road because they can not afford to live near their work, 

while un-employed and those not working can live in an area where the work is with rents paid from Housing Benefit to Land Lords that do not pay taxes as they should because they borrowed cheap money to purchase Buy to Let using their other properties as collateral.

Edited 4 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[CWARD]

2 hours ago, S00perb said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_failed_and_overbudget_custom_software_projects

But I am NOT saying which ones I was involved with!!

To be fair, its not down to one party in government or another, its more to do with lawyers. the commissioning bodies just don't have the best ones. The companies that take on the work have the best lawyers and if the project fails, they still get paid.

Projects last so long, more requirements creep in. Contractors are far more knowledgeable than the managers and do what they feel they 'want' to do.

Put 2 hungry programmers in a room for a week and they will always achieve more then 200 people inviolved in any big IT project.

 

I know of solicitors during the 2010 election that were working around the clock, booking whole hotels next to their offices so that they could rush through contracts before Labour lost. These contracts were just signed off with the contractors laughing all the way to the bank. Tory's get in and a lot of contracts were cancelled, whilst others were so iron clad that it was more expensive to cancel them and had to be honoured. Totally reckless signing up to such contracts which many where for vanity projects with the commissioning bodies having little grasp of the consequences of their actions. Then we wonder why we still need to borrow money    

[S00perb]

2 hours ago, CWARD said:

 

Isn't the East as well West coast lines now operated by Virgin who are pay the treasury £3.3billion over 8 years which kinds of trumps the £1billion from DOR. Can't find any way comparisons for customer satisfaction other than PPM at £82% and ranked 9th by a Which survey.  

 

You miss out the massive public money in subsidies they are given - the DOR made that money in 5 years and made a net contribution to the government AFTER subsidies.

We are allowing private companies to run monopolies and profit from them with public subsidies. It's not like an airline where we can choose who we fly with. If we want to go to Scotland by rail, its the same poor service and extortionate price from one company, no choice.

I would be perfectly happy if we went down the non-profit route. Why not? Just put the profits back into the business, don't let them be creamed off.

[domhnall]

On 04/09/2017 at 11:24, CWARD said:

 

I assume you don't remember how badly run and under invested the railways where before. You can't renationalise the railways until after Brexit either as the EU don't allow it. Unlike Labour to send out mixed messages and promises they can't deliver 

http://theconversation.com/fact-check-do-new-eu-rules-make-it-impossible-to-renationalise-railways-61180

 

the government chromically under invested in the railways for decades, that's why they were in a poor state. Odd that the EU bans the UK from having nationalised railways when they have just that sort of system in the Netherlands, in Germany, in France and doubtless many other countries. The fourth railway package would allow a pubic sector organisation to bid to run services. That's something that's not allowed in the current UK law which says that they have to be run bu private companies. Jeremy COrbyn got into a bit of a muddle over this recently when he attacked the Scottish Government for 1) privatising Scotrail and 2) not trying to re nationalise it. This was a muddle because 1) was the labour party and 2) is illegal 

All a bit of a mess. 

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, domhnall said:

 

the government chromically under invested in the railways for decades, that's why they were in a poor state. Odd that the EU bans the UK from having nationalised railways when they have just that sort of system in the Netherlands, in Germany, in France and doubtless many other countries. The fourth railway package would allow a pubic sector organisation to bid to run services. That's something that's not allowed in the current UK law which says that they have to be run bu private companies. Jeremy COrbyn got into a bit of a muddle over this recently when he attacked the Scottish Government for 1) privatising Scotrail and 2) not trying to re nationalise it. This was a muddle because 1) was the labour party and 2) is illegal 

All a bit of a mess. 

I thought that (1):-

A) Was the Con party rather than Liebour

B ) Pre-dated the Scots parliament, which at that time was a Liebour + Lemmingcrat coalition?