EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[Ryeman]

Conservatives use underinvestment as a tool to get out of supporting basic utilities and even rights, such as ombudsmen and oversight bodies, who are there to make the powerful accountable.     Freezing their fiscal support is a popular way of undermining their capacity to deliver compensation, with the added benefit of being able to get away with further undermining.

Cynically its sold as bureaucratic red tape which need to be removed to improve efficiency.

SOP for Conservatives.

[CWARD]

9 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Conservatives use underinvestment as a tool to get out of supporting basic utilities and even rights, such as ombudsmen and oversight bodies, who are there to make the powerful accountable.    Freezing their fiscal support is a popular way of undermining their capacity to deliver compensation, with the added benefit of being able to get away with further undermining.

Cynically its sold as bureaucratic red tape which need to be removed to improve efficiency.

SOP for Conservatives.

 

Ombudsmen and oversight bodies are pretty useless when Gordon Brown tells the City regulator not to intervene and stop the reckless lending, we all know what happened next. I guess these facts don't fit with your statement but hey lets not let facts get in the way. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/4808373/Gordon-Brown-helped-fuel-banking-crisis-FSA-head.html

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/dec/12/labour-regulations-city-rbs-collapse

http://www.socialist.net/brown-light-touch-regulation.htm I guess these aren't the biggest fans of Gordon Brown and New Labour

 

Hopefully you may realise that a politician of whatever party is generally as corrupt as the next. Put them in power and under that spot light you see just how corrupt they really are. We've just had the biggest wish list agenda in the last elections that are now quickly been back tracked over as they were financially impossible to implement. 

 

Edited 6 September, 2017 by CWARD

[S00perb]

13 minutes ago, CWARD said:

Hopefully you may realise that a politician of whatever party is generally as corrupt as the next. Put them in power and under that spot light you see just how corrupt they really are. We've just had the biggest wish list agenda in the last elections that are now quickly been back tracked over as they were financially impossible to implement. 

 

The power hungry yes, it corrupts. But give it to someone who really wasn't in it for leadership in the first place....hmmm, maybe. Give JC a go - if he messes up I am out of supporting anyone again!

[CWARD]

3 minutes ago, S00perb said:

The power hungry yes, it corrupts. But give it to someone who really wasn't in it for leadership in the first place....hmmm, maybe. Give JC a go - if he messes up I am out of supporting anyone again!

 

Nothing more than a populist leader telling people what they want to hear with very little ability to deliver them. Those around him are even more out of their depth. Give him a go but if he messes up with his grand plans it will hurt everyone for decades to come. I'd rather not give him a go, his handling of the Sarah Champion article shows he doesn't have the stomach for making the tough decisions. David Milliband or Andy Burnham I would have gave them a go but they were wise enough to step away from a toxic party who are flip flopping any which way the wind blows in a desperate bid for power. With this little back bone how corrupt do you think they would become in government? 

[S00perb]

42 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

Hopefully you may realise that a politician of whatever party is generally as corrupt as the next

 

THAT is a populist statement.

 

[CWARD]

Unfortunately it's probably more factual than not. 

Edited 6 September, 2017 by CWARD

[S00perb]

1 minute ago, CWARD said:

Unfortunately it's probably more factual than not. 

Populism can be and often is factual. It is banded about as an insult, but it is not what most people take it to mean.

popu|lism

[ˈpɒpjʊlɪz(ə)m]

NOUN

support for the concerns of ordinary people

[CWARD]

Quote

Roman senate whose supporters were known for their populist agenda. They tried to rule by mobilizing masses of Romans.

 

Telling people what they want to hear to rally them behind you against your opponents as demonstrated by Corbyn, Trump and Brexit. 

 

Quote

Political parties and politicians often use the terms populist and populism as pejoratives against their opponents. Such a view sees populism as demagogy, merely appearing to empathize with the public through rhetoric or unrealistic proposals in order to increase appeal across the political spectrum

 

Edited 6 September, 2017 by CWARD

[Bignij]

14 minutes ago, CWARD said:

Unfortunately it's probably more factual than not. 

It probably isn't.

Most of them are inept and it for their own benefit but corrupt is a good few steps further on.

[CWARD]

6 minutes ago, Bignij said:

Most of them are inept and it for their own benefit but corrupt is a good few steps further on.

 

pretty much my definition of corrupt - cause to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain, not a representative of the voters

 

[Gazdok]

And what has any of this got to do with Brexit? and the the current government wrecking the country even more in the name of said Brexit?

 

The political leaders are only as corrupt as the powerful civil servants sitting next to them and advising them.

[Ootohere]

UK Companies, Corporations and just Medium to Small employers really starting to crap themselves as to where the cheap to employ hard working individuals that accept crap working and living conditions are going to be coming from.

So that is Hotel & Catering / tourism, Cleaning Services, caring & health care, agriculture and horticulture and food production and processing, transportation, construction etc etc etc, 

then all those that are dependent on the Gig Economy etc etc.

 

Chickens coming home to roost, or is that imported chickens only as there are no minimum wage and below or on the grip workers to rear, kill and butcher them...

[gadgetman]

Sums up brilliantly where we currently are with brexit. 

 

 

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-demolishes-the-final-arguments-brexit/

[@Lee]

I made the BBC London news yesterday at the march 

[Aspman]

I don't see anyone in a BT boilersuit.

[domhnall]

On 05/09/2017 at 16:48, KenONeill said:

I thought that (1):-

A) Was the Con party rather than Liebour

B ) Pre-dated the Scots parliament, which at that time was a Liebour + Lemmingcrat coalition?

 

quite

 

UK laws, UK decisions, Jezza blames the Scottish Government, specifically one elected after the decisions he criticises which were actually made by hos own party in some cases.

 

[Ryeman]

What exactly is a Hard Brexit meant to achieve?.

Simply my way or give and take?.

[S00perb]

18 hours ago, Lee01 said:

I made the BBC London news yesterday at the march 

Good on ya

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, Ryeman said:

What exactly is a Hard Brexit meant to achieve?.

Simply my way or give and take?.

 

Hard BREXIT is the UK defaulting directly to the EU's External Customs tariff and the re-introduction of border controls, for goods and people, that are entering the EU from the UK.

 

Although the average duty rate on the EU External tariff is only a 3% Ad Valorem duty rate, on average, it is reckoned by professional bodies, such as ACITA, BIFA, Freight Transport Association, that the cost of the re-introduction of borders will cost industry at least as much as the tariffs so just looking at the tariffs is not the full picture.

 

The UK will go from its present 70 million customs entries a year to around 300 million and the costs of creating and presenting these entries, both for export and imports from the EU, will be in area of ten billion pounds per year minimum.

 

Soft BREXIT you may get transition of procedures and graduated adoption of the tariffs and maybe a Free Trade Agreement but that is only likely if the EU External Tariff is adopted by the UK plus other concession relating to Free Movement of people and adoption of EU standards.  

 

 

Edited 11 September, 2017 by lol-lol

[Ootohere]

Job creation, that is a good thing.  Imports & Exports, a whole new generation of Ex Military will be available to get jobs. 

Maybe some 'in a job for life' might get moved on or retired with all that lovely pension coming their way, and new cheaper blood can get into the Border Control & Custom industry and then it might become Fit for Purpose because 

surely even those in the job must know it is a joke really, 

money for old rope, or new rope even exported then re-imported and much ripping off to the UK economy...

[lol-lol]

30 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Job creation, that is a good thing.  Imports & Exports, a whole new generation of Ex Military will be available to get jobs. 

Maybe some 'in a job for life' might get moved on or retired with all that lovely pension coming their way, and new cheaper blood can get into the Border Control & Custom industry and then it might become Fit for Purpose because 

surely even those in the job must know it is a joke really, 

money for old rope, or new rope even exported then re-imported and much ripping off to the UK economy...

 

Job creation spurred on by the chance to export more due to a weak UK currency as long as you are OK with not holidaying abroad and do not buy too much which comes from outside the UK, which is most things most of us want.  Living like a hermit and making Scottish Whisky fit that bill I suppose.

 

The thousand of jobs in my industry to go back to having customs entries will cost exporter and importers something and the UK government will have the opportunity to collect billions in import taxes of course but that will have to be paid, in part,  by the UK consumer.  German and Spanish car producers may have to take a smaller margin if they want to continue to sell to the UK as will Hyundai/Kia and most other car makers.

 

We know the dataset the EU is demanding and when they require it and my swan song will be to train the next generation of customs entry clerks and then get on the bike and ride off to the sunset and let them get on with it.  If they want input in the future I might be persuaded for the right offer but with the Civil Service pension kicking in at 60, like many others in job that are commercial or socially in demand, I might be able to enticed to do a bit more if the price is right.        

 

  

Edited 11 September, 2017 by lol-lol

[gadgetman]

7 hours ago, Aspman said:

I don't see anyone in a BT boilersuit.

Crouched down in a tea break. You can just see the top of his head

[@Lee]

7 hours ago, Aspman said:

I don't see anyone in a BT boilersuit.

 

Just now, gadgetman said:

Crouched down in a tea break. You can just see the top of his head

 I'm the bloke smokin' a fag 

 

[gadgetman]

14 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

 

 I'm the bloke smokin' a fag 

 

I knew  that

[domhnall]

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Hard BREXIT is the UK defaulting directly to the EU's External Customs tariff and the re-introduction of border controls, for goods and people, that are entering the EU from the UK.

 

Although the average duty rate on the EU External tariff is only a 3% Ad Valorem duty rate, on average, it is reckoned by professional bodies, such as ACITA, BIFA, Freight Transport Association, that the cost of the re-introduction of borders will cost industry at least as much as the tariffs so just looking at the tariffs is not the full picture.

 

The UK will go from its present 70 million customs entries a year to around 300 million and the costs of creating and presenting these entries, both for export and imports from the EU, will be in area of ten billion pounds per year minimum.

 

Soft BREXIT you may get transition of procedures and graduated adoption of the tariffs and maybe a Free Trade Agreement but that is only likely if the EU External Tariff is adopted by the UK plus other concession relating to Free Movement of people and adoption of EU standards.  

 

 

 

 

just as important as all those physical goods is the flow of data. Hard brexit will see data flows stopped cross border. THere is an awful lot of work going on just now to try to avert this but the UK government is not helping much.